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PP butchering lucky 15s

2

Comments

  • #32
    Dr. Bre
    Registered Users Posts: 7,537 ✭✭✭Dr. Bre


    Blud wrote: »
    Can anyone link to a post on here that had 4 winners in a Lucky 15, ever?

    Or if you can't find a link does anyone recall one?

    Seems like a mug's bet to me.

    Bookies bets they are. I doubt anyone in profit from just doing lucky 15s


  • #33
    Gringo180
    Registered Users Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭Gringo180


    Dr. Bre wrote: »
    Bookies bets they are. I doubt anyone in profit from just doing lucky 15s

    Alot of people will do a lucky 15 just for value purposes. There getting 4 races from there bet instead of just doing a single, that will more than likely cost the same as the L15. If ur a fan of value there a good bet.


  • #34
    spurshero
    Registered Users Posts: 1,761 ✭✭✭spurshero


    JagoMoon wrote: »
    They've slowly been getting rid of every bit of value for the past few years. 1/5 place terms on golf and same for antepost betting now this. But sure aren't their ads gas!!!

    Best post on here . Sucking all
    Bits of value for a while no . Don’t deserve custom .


  • #35
    pugw
    Registered Users Posts: 634 ✭✭✭pugw


    Ever since they merged with Betfair their terms have got progressively worse! Reply to their next big marketing ploy on Twitter! You’d have thought BoyleSports would have used the issue to win some market share!
    Have many independents followed suit? What about Ladbrokes! Great bet for a Saturday! I used to go into PP to do the lucky to get treble the odds and then do an each way accum on the selections + Any multiples online to get BOG.


  • #36
    The Tetrarch
    Registered Users Posts: 2,092 ✭✭✭The Tetrarch


    They are getting ready for Cheltenham. :)
    Brexit, betting tax, equine flu, border backstop, competition - life is tough for multinationals.


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  • #37
    UrbanFret
    Registered Users Posts: 2,055 ✭✭✭UrbanFret


    Would not surprise me if Paddy powers and boylesports are in cahoots on this. The L15 is a very popular bet because 1 winner at 5/1 or more will return a profit. Between 1/5 odds and **** early prices the punters back is to the wall. As for football odds , a joke to say the least.


  • #38
    pugw
    Registered Users Posts: 634 ✭✭✭pugw


    I wouldn’t be surprised if BOG will be next target ... it will be like the English High street firms... offer BOG only on certain races!
    Will start using 365 more now after this.


  • #39
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    My guess would be they're creating a piggy bank for the emmerging/future US markets.

    Chances are many (un-sensible and new, younger folks) are moving towards that rotten* mobile games/casino/bingo pavlova,
    so traditional punters are not as attractive i.e. Costing them more to service and run a bricks 'n mortar shop, than some virtual game thingy.

    *Then again a lad in Belfast this week took +€4m off Powers playing one of those funny wee games.
    Suspect there is more to this story, that doesn't feature in the glossy press releases.


  • #40
    Happy4all
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,089 ✭✭✭Happy4all


    PP is **** when it comes to football odds. Grown tired of their unfunny ads. Personally, I avoid them.



    Interesting to see will any of them come up with any decent offers for Chelts.


  • #41
    Gringo180
    Registered Users Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭Gringo180


    Ive noticed there football odds being worse than Boylepsorts and even Ladcrooks. For instance we have a syndicate for Chelt and 7 of us do a bet each week, a treble, bet365 always pays out around 20% more than Paddys amd this is only a tenner treble. Id say Boyles pay out about 10% more.


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  • #42
    vapor trails
    Registered Users Posts: 384 ✭✭vapor trails


    2% betting duty has increased the costs of running shops by around €2,500 per month. The online game is at about 7% GP so when the government takes another 1% back here it really is leaving things tight. People can cheer from the rooftops when bookies get taxed but at the end of the day its the punter pays it.


  • #43
    PhuckHugh2
    Registered Users Posts: 214 ✭✭PhuckHugh2


    Gringo180 wrote: »
    Ive noticed there football odds being worse than Boylepsorts and even Ladcrooks. For instance we have a syndicate for Chelt and 7 of us do a bet each week, a treble, bet365 always pays out around 20% more than Paddys amd this is only a tenner treble. Id say Boyles pay out about 10% more.

    I dont bet on soccer. But is it just a case that PP have a different stance on the market and if you bet the other side with PP you would be getting more with them?
    The Bet365 model is a fair bit different than PP and id imagine their soccer department is significantly better equipped to run tighter margins. If you can get on with 365 then just go with it.


    On another note. I dont really get people complaining about bookies not offering specials. Firstly you have the option to just not do the bet if you dont think it is value and second there are plenty of deals/specials out there to appeal to the masses if you shop around. If you can get on with all the bookmakers then you should use whichever one offers you the best value for that event.


  • #44
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Dr. Bre wrote: »
    Bookies bets they are. I doubt anyone in profit from just doing lucky 15s

    It does allow you to have a genuine interest in 4 horse races for small stakes with the possibility of a big return. Yes, getting the 4 up will only happen every so often. However when they do click you are into seriously nice money, getting a holiday, bringing your moth out for a nice meal etc.

    At Ascot last summer I did a 6 fold ew accum from the treble up. I had 3 winners and 6 places. It was all on Pallasator in the Queens Vaze, I won just under € 1,400 for a € 6-7 euro bet. I bought a new leather jacket, new pair of shoes, brought mates out for a meal and had a few free nights on the piss. It was a great laugh. If the six got up I would have won over € 90,000. The three other places lost by a combined 3 1/2 lengths. That's how far I was away from buying a Mercedes Benz. I will get over it.

    You can have these bets every day and you won't miss the money. The prize is when they win and you win a junk of cash, happy days.

    Don't be too deliberate or conservative in your bets if you really want to enjoy it. The concept of having a hard € 50 on 3-1 shots for the rest of your life will cost you thousands in the long run. Change things up, try new things.


  • #45
    PhuckHugh2
    Registered Users Posts: 214 ✭✭PhuckHugh2


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    You can have these bets every day and you won't miss the money. The prize is when they win and you win a junk of cash, happy days.

    Don't be too deliberate or conservative in your bets if you really want to enjoy it. The concept of having a hard € 50 on 3-1 shots for the rest of your life will cost you thousands in the long run. Change things up, try new things.

    Im sorry but that is absolute rubbish. Someone betting win or each way singles is a lot less likely to be losing cash than someone betting Lucky "whatever you want".

    The over round on a 4 fold with a 120% book on each market is about 107% and thats only the 4 fold.


  • #46
    PhuckHugh2
    Registered Users Posts: 214 ✭✭PhuckHugh2


    Just done a quick calculation the total over round for 120% markets in a lucky 15 is 742%.
    For anyone unfamiliar with bookmaking this means that if a bookies takes 842euro in lucky 15s they should expect to pay out 100.
    Obviously it is not an exact science but this is just talking the average market.

    Not what i would consider value. But each to their own.


  • #47
    NaiveMelodies
    Registered Users Posts: 3,172 ✭✭✭NaiveMelodies


    The idea that a bet allows you 'an interest in 4 horse races' is dangerous stuff and sweet sweet music to the bookies ears.
    People are allowed be interested without having a bet!


  • #48
    pugw
    Registered Users Posts: 634 ✭✭✭pugw


    The points above are fair enough but focus more on the likelihood of getting all four selections up.
    The reason people are complaining here is that removing the treble the odds reduces the likelihood of being able to cover the bet regularly!
    They are a good bet for people that don’t fancy investing €50’s on short priced horses at the top of the market!


  • #49
    Mostly Harmless
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭Mostly Harmless


    PhuckHugh2 wrote: »
    Just done a quick calculation the total over round for 120% markets in a lucky 15 is 742%.
    For anyone unfamiliar with bookmaking this means that if a bookies takes 842euro in lucky 15s they should expect to pay out 100.
    Obviously it is not an exact science but this is just talking the average market.

    Not what i would consider value. But each to their own.
    Sure if you follow that logic then why bother betting at all as the over round cannot be beaten.

    If you're getting value on the place part of an EW L15 then it is unquestionably a good bet with treble odds for one winner, the old adage of multi bets being exclusively for mugs is wrong.


  • #50
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    PhuckHugh2 wrote: »
    Just done a quick calculation the total over round for 120% markets in a lucky 15 is 742%.
    For anyone unfamiliar with bookmaking this means that if a bookies takes 842euro in lucky 15s they should expect to pay out 100.
    Obviously it is not an exact science but this is just talking the average market.

    Not what i would consider value. But each to their own.

    Maths isn't my strong point but that doesn't sound right to me.

    Four of the bets are singles or 27% of the total stake in other words.

    If there 20% margin on those singles then 21% of the total L15 stake is coming back, ie of 842 at least 180 on 842 staked. That's ignoring ALL the doubles, trebles and of course the four-fold (rare though it is!)

    It's also ignoring double odds on one winner.

    i don't think anyone would claim the L15 is professional punting, it's a bet for entertainment with a large potential return that you can dream about for an hour or so.


  • #51
    UrbanFret
    Registered Users Posts: 2,055 ✭✭✭UrbanFret


    PhuckHugh2 wrote: »
    Im sorry but that is absolute rubbish. Someone betting win or each way singles is a lot less likely to be losing cash than someone betting Lucky "whatever you want".

    The over round on a 4 fold with a 120% book on each market is about 107% and thats only the 4 fold.


    Yeah the bookies are full of the type of punters you mention above. The ones who can't see beyond the first 2 in the betting, backing 4/1 shots each way. They are the type of punter the bookie loves not the small L15 player who could and does some serious damage for small stakes. Only Saturday a Kerry punter scooped over 20K for a 30c L15 . No ones claiming they are easy to get up but most days a punter can break even with one winner in 4. No way the lad that's throwing hundreds on favs at short prices is.


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  • #52
    PhuckHugh2
    Registered Users Posts: 214 ✭✭PhuckHugh2


    Mostly Harmless wrote: »
    Sure if you follow that logic then why bother betting at all as the over round cannot be beaten.

    If you're getting value on the place part of an EW L15 then it is unquestionably a good bet with treble odds for one winner, the old adage of multi bets being exclusively for mugs is wrong.

    I never said the over round couldnt be beaten. I was more replying to the previous punter who said that you are better off doing a Lucky 15 to a Win single or Each Way.

    If you have little knowledge of something you are better off betting win only that is the point i was trying to make. I dont really think it is an unrealistic concept for people to grasp.

    I have done Lucky 15s myself in the past i can see the interest that they can give people but it wouldnt be for me.


  • #53
    PhuckHugh2
    Registered Users Posts: 214 ✭✭PhuckHugh2


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Maths isn't my strong point but that doesn't sound right to me.

    Four of the bets are singles or 27% of the total stake in other words.

    If there 20% margin on those singles then 21% of the total L15 stake is coming back, ie of 842 at least 180 on 842 staked. That's ignoring ALL the doubles, trebles and of course the four-fold (rare though it is!)

    It's also ignoring double odds on one winner.

    i don't think anyone would claim the L15 is professional punting, it's a bet for entertainment with a large potential return that you can dream about for an hour or so.

    Jesus yes im not sure why i didnt even question that is it is all over the shop. Monday is my excuse. You are spot on. I make it 22% back on the singles on a re-calculation and a total total overround of 55% on the bet.

    In any case the point i was trying to make was to the previous poster who claimed lucky 15s are a better bet than singles. Obviously there are times when you can get an overall edge on a multiple but it is as rare as hens teeth and if you are interested in making money then Single bets are the way to go.


  • #54
    UrbanFret
    Registered Users Posts: 2,055 ✭✭✭UrbanFret


    Opened an account with bet 365. Did L15 , had 1 winner and only twice the odds. WTF?


  • #55
    HarshOstrich
    Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭HarshOstrich


    UrbanFret wrote: »
    Opened an account with bet 365. Did L15 , had 1 winner and only twice the odds. WTF?

    That’s what all online bookmakers do.
    I recommend bet victor as you get Best odds guaranteed on all multiples and lucky bets.


  • #56
    UrbanFret
    Registered Users Posts: 2,055 ✭✭✭UrbanFret


    Gringo180 wrote: »
    Bet365 still treble odds. By far the best online betting company.
    ?????:confused:


  • #57
    Gringo180
    Registered Users Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭Gringo180


    UrbanFret wrote: »
    ?????:confused:

    Must of followed suit and cut it to double odds. **** it anyways


  • #58
    Realalemadrid
    Registered Users Posts: 160 ✭✭Realalemadrid


    The only on-line book doing treble odds on the L15 is Betfred AFAIK.


  • #59
    finbarrk
    Registered Users Posts: 5,411 ✭✭✭finbarrk


    PhuckHugh2 wrote: »
    Just done a quick calculation the total over round for 120% markets in a lucky 15 is 742%.
    For anyone unfamiliar with bookmaking this means that if a bookies takes 842euro in lucky 15s they should expect to pay out 100.
    Obviously it is not an exact science but this is just talking the average market.

    Not what i would consider value. But each to their own.

    I don't think that is correct.


  • #60
    PhuckHugh2
    Registered Users Posts: 214 ✭✭PhuckHugh2


    finbarrk wrote: »
    I don't think that is correct.

    Yes sorry i corrected myself a few posts later. Pretty sure second calculation is correct.
    Was doing the first one in my head and made a mare of it. Will edit the post to avoid confusion.

    **Actually not able to edit that post for some reason.


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  • #61
    pugw
    Registered Users Posts: 634 ✭✭✭pugw


    Any of ye use Betfred for luckys? They have maintained treble odds! Was thinking of setting up an account! I notice they don’t offer their new customer offer to Irish customers. What are there prices like? Any issues getting a €5 lucky 15 on etc?


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