Does Owen Keegan have a point re homeless?

Wheeliebin30 · 19-02-2019 1:49pm

downtheroad wrote: »

The McVerry accounts are an eye opener. I cannot believe the gall of this man to constantly be in the media bemoaning the lack of accommodation for homeless people in Dublin, when his Trust receives €14.5m in state funding, of which €8m is paid by the Dublin Regional Homeless Executive specifically for Homeless Services (per page 19 of the report), and the Trust then spent only €2.3m on Property Running Costs and €2.8m to purchase and refurbish homes (page 23).

We’re not allowed question this and if anyone does Sinn Féin ask them to resign.

It suits Sinn Fein and the left to have this “homeless” crisis.

Solving it would be detrimental to their campaign.

mariaalice · 19-02-2019 1:50pm

So nobody got any ideas of how to support the vulnerable individuals, that could possibly need ongoing life long support, one that is not going to cost any money?

it's not about the homeless services as such, but they seem to have got caught up in a narrative that is not reflective of what they do anymore.

People seem to want it both way either vulnerable people are entitled to get support because it is deemed a societal good or it's not and let everyone fend for themselves.

It will always cost money to support people.

BarryD2 · 19-02-2019 1:51pm

Keegan has a point but was probably unwise to publicly express it.

Yurt2 · 19-02-2019 1:54pm

Boggles wrote: »

Pensions are 8 billion this year, the largest expenditure in the budget, they were 5.9 billion in 2010.

Bloody freeloading old people.

downtheroad · 19-02-2019 1:57pm

BarryD2 wrote: »

Keegan has a point but was probably unwise to publicly express it.

Conor Skehan got vilified for pointing out that people were gaming the housing system. Nobody stands up for these guys calling a spade a spade.

Wheeliebin30 · 19-02-2019 2:00pm

mariaalice wrote: »

So nobody got any ideas of how to support the vulnerable individuals, that could possibly need ongoing life long support, one that is not going to cost any money?

it's not about the homeless services as such, but they seem to have got caught up in a narrative that is not reflective of what they do anymore.

People seem to want it both way either vulnerable people are entitled to get support because it is deemed a societal good or it's not and let everyone fend for themselves.

It will always cost money to support people.

Nobody here is suggesting people who genuinely need help don’t get it.

Kivaro · 19-02-2019 2:03pm

downtheroad wrote: »

Conor Skehan got vilified for pointing out that people were gaming the housing system. Nobody stands up for these guys calling a spade a spade.

Which is why we need a completely new political party in this country.
And they would do very well indeed because working people and contributors to society are sick to the teeth of the status quo, and they want a party that represents their views/needs.

downtheroad · 19-02-2019 2:34pm

Kivaro wrote: »

Which is why we need a completely new political party in this country.
And they would do very well indeed because working people and contributors to society are sick to the teeth of the status quo, and they want a party that represents their views/needs.

Maybe Peter Casey, Conor Skehan and now Owen Keegan could set this up

19-02-2019 2:59pm

mariaalice wrote: »

So nobody got any ideas of how to support the vulnerable individuals, that could possibly need ongoing life long support, one that is not going to cost any money?

it's not about the homeless services as such, but they seem to have got caught up in a narrative that is not reflective of what they do anymore.

People seem to want it both way either vulnerable people are entitled to get support because it is deemed a societal good or it's not and let everyone fend for themselves.

It will always cost money to support people.

Vulnerable people need be classified differently to unemployed families with 5, 6, or 7 children claiming homelessness, though some of those families might fall into the same category. Genuine vulnerable people should have access to all available services. Some of the multi millions given to homeless “charities” could be better spent funding this support.

FutureGuy · 19-02-2019 3:07pm

BarryD2 wrote: »

Keegan has a point but was probably unwise to publicly express it.

And that is the problem.

mariaalice · 19-02-2019 3:48pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Vulnerable people need be classified differently to unemployed families with 5, 6, or 7 children claiming homelessness, though some of those families might fall into the same category. Genuine vulnerable people should have access to all available services. Some of the multi millions given to homeless “charities” could be better spent funding this support.

But that is exactly what the homeless charities and NGO do that is why they should be re classified, people have got stuck on the homeless bit and I would say a lot not just some of the families with 5, 6, or 7 children claiming homelessness would be in need of some sort of support.

There are chancers in every situation but they are not the biggest issue.

I would have an issue with the employment of policy advisors and the like by charities/NGO and with the narratives a lot of the homeless charities/NGO use.

corner of hells · 19-02-2019 3:55pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Having been the recipient of welfare on a couple of occasions, I’m only too aware of its benefits. It was a crutch when I needed it. I did not view it as a lifestyle choice.
I sourced my own home, in an area I could afford, not an area I wished to live in and funded it from my own wages.
The homeless crisis seems to be centered mostly in Dublin, where most of the homeless “Charities” are based. Stop paying millions to groups who duplicate services and put it into one central government agency and build homes.
If people are genuinely homeless and unemployed, then they cannot be fussy about where they live-within reason.
I’m sorry if my being an advocate of one being self reliant and willing to pay ones way offends you. It’s just the way I am. My culture, if you like.

The state is providing a lot of housing/accommodation for homeless people .
They just won't provide staff, it's left to charities to employ staff for day to day running.

It's too expensive for the state to employ social care teams directly.

This duplicity of service people talk , there's about eight homeless/housing charities.

What some of them are doing is providing services the state simply will not do.

corner of hells · 19-02-2019 3:59pm

mariaalice wrote: »

But that is exactly what the homeless charities and NGO do that is why they should be re classified, people have got stuck on the homeless bit and I would say a lot not just some of the families with 5, 6, or 7 children claiming homelessness would be in need of some sort of support.

There are chancers in every situation but they are not the biggest issue.

I would have an issue with the employment of policy advisors and the like by charities/NGO and with the narratives a lot of the homeless charities/NGO use.

No charity decides who's homeless.

mariaalice · 19-02-2019 4:04pm

corner of hells wrote: »

No charity decides who's homeless.

No of course not, but if the reality of the clients is an addiction, chaotic lives etc why does the donate narrative not reflect this instead it's usually about some down on his luck alcoholic.

corner of hells · 19-02-2019 4:06pm

mariaalice wrote: »

No of course not, but if the reality of the clients is an addiction, chaotic lives etc why does the donate narrative not reflect this instead it's usually about some down on his luck alcoholic.

I think I'm missing what you're saying , is the donate narrative the request for support off the public.

mariaalice · 19-02-2019 4:09pm

corner of hells wrote: »

I think I'm missing what you're saying , is the donate narrative the request for support off the public.

Yes, its form of dishonesty. I can see both sides of this argument but a lot of the charities/NGO do not help themselves either.

padd b1975 · 19-02-2019 4:10pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

We’re not allowed question this and if anyone does Sinn Féin ask them to resign.

It suits Sinn Fein and the left to have this “homeless” crisis.

Solving it would be detrimental to their campaign.

I'd love to meet the accountant who signed off on such vague numbers.

corner of hells · 19-02-2019 4:14pm

mariaalice wrote: »

Yes.

I have no idea , I'd guess the homeless down and out us a more viable option that asking somebody to donate to an IV using heroin addict.

gctest50 · 19-02-2019 4:14pm

About a dozen homeless chancers charidees receiving many millions every year in wages

The shower of parasites & wasters don't seem to
be very effective - still loads of people homeless

Not in their interest to even half fix it

corner of hells · 19-02-2019 4:17pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Vulnerable people need be classified differently to unemployed families with 5, 6, or 7 children claiming homelessness, though some of those families might fall into the same category. Genuine vulnerable people should have access to all available services. Some of the multi millions given to homeless “charities” could be better spent funding this support.

They're are being supported differently , it's called SLI.
Depending in you're needs , you are categorised accordingly.

mariaalice · 19-02-2019 4:18pm

corner of hells wrote: »

They're are being supported differently , it's called SLI.
Depending in you're needs , you are categorised accordingly.

It still going to cost money and a lot of the posters have an issue with public money being used that way.

corner of hells · 19-02-2019 4:19pm

gctest50 wrote: »

About a dozen homeless chancers charidees receiving many millions every year in wages

The shower of parasites & wasters don't seem to
be very effective - still loads of people homeless

Not in their interest to even half fix it

Eight working in accommodation support , have a look at the multitude of services provided by PMVT .

corner of hells · 19-02-2019 4:23pm

mariaalice wrote: »

It still going to cost money and a lot of the posters have an issue with public money being used that way.

I agree , but the state simply won't provide the staff to work in these services.

I'm a homeless service social care worker .
I'd love if the state would employ me directly , instead I'm employed by contract by a charity.

The state doesn't want to provide these services directly.

gctest50 · 19-02-2019 4:24pm

Conor Skehan : “We appear to have over 70 homeless charities – every single one needs to have an auditor. Every one needs a premises, a company secretary, a pension scheme.”

corner of hells · 19-02-2019 4:25pm

gctest50 wrote: »

Conor Skehan : “We appear to have over 70 homeless charities – every single one needs to have an auditor. Every one needs a premises, a company secretary, a pension scheme.”

So what would you suggest ?

mariaalice · 19-02-2019 4:28pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Vulnerable people need be classified differently to unemployed families with 5, 6, or 7 children claiming homelessness, though some of those families might fall into the same category. Genuine vulnerable people should have access to all available services. Some of the multi millions given to homeless “charities” could be better spent funding this support.

This is where the magical thinking comes in the services to vulnerable people will have to be provided by some organisation and that organisation will employ professional people to provide the support and should be professionally managed which will cost money.

I have visited a homeless service that is completely volunteer-run but its a religious organisation and rightly or wrongly Irish society has an issue with religious involvement in civic society.

gctest50 · 19-02-2019 4:29pm

Come up with something that actually works and may cost less than 20,000 per person

"On the basis of a crude analysis, this equates to an average State spend by person experiencing homelessness in

2013 of €18,577 and

2014 of €19,179"

DEFTLEFTHAND · 19-02-2019 4:34pm

gctest50 wrote: »

Conor Skehan : “We appear to have over 70 homeless charities – every single one needs to have an auditor. Every one needs a premises, a company secretary, a pension scheme.”

70?

Christ I didn't realise it was that high.

Has this become some sort of racket/scam

gctest50 · 19-02-2019 4:51pm

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

..........

Has this become some sort of racket/scam

If you found a "pair" that were homeless it adds up to about :

€ 3100 per month

Kivaro · 19-02-2019 4:53pm

corner of hells wrote: »

So what would you suggest ?

Not 70 homeless charities for a start.

Does Owen Keegan have a point re homeless?

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