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Does Owen Keegan have a point re homeless?

1235

Comments

  • #122
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    "The Dublin Homeless Network represents the 23 charities across Dublin

    - that's one charity for almost every seven rough sleepers in Dublin"


    - J.Corcoran


  • #123
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    gctest50 wrote: »
    Conor Skehan : “We appear to have over 70 homeless charities – every single one needs to have an auditor. Every one needs a premises, a company secretary, a pension scheme.”
    And usually a do gooder C.E.O on a big whack. A careerist charity scam.
    Same as the Third World crews


  • #124
    corner of hells
    Registered Users Posts: 8,354 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    gctest50 wrote: »
    "The Dublin Homeless Network represents the 23 charities across Dublin

    - that's one charity for almost every seven rough sleepers in Dublin"


    - J.Corcoran

    70 or 23 ?


  • #125
    corner of hells
    Registered Users Posts: 8,354 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    Kivaro wrote: »
    Not 70 homeless charities for a start.

    23 or 70 ?


  • #126
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    downtheroad wrote: »
    The McVerry accounts are an eye opener. I cannot believe the gall of this man to constantly be in the media bemoaning the lack of accommodation for homeless people in Dublin, when his Trust receives €14.5m in state funding, of which €8m is paid by the Dublin Regional Homeless Executive specifically for Homeless Services (per page 19 of the report), and the Trust then spent only €2.3m on Property Running Costs and €2.8m to purchase and refurbish homes (page 23).
    I'm not defending them but...
    food costs?
    clothing?
    staff?
    vehicles? running costs?


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  • #127
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    corner of hells wrote: »
    70 or 23 ?
    corner of hells wrote: »
    23 or 70 ?

    Dunno, tell us all - you said you are the contracted professional




    corner of hells wrote: »
    ............

    I'm a homeless service social care worker .


    I'm employed by contract by a charity



    .


  • #128
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,356 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    So when the charities/NGO are rechristened as...'bland name services for vulnerable something or other' and it costs millions to run and they employ professional staff to run the service, will there still be objections to the cost.


  • #129
    corner of hells
    Registered Users Posts: 8,354 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    gctest50 wrote: »
    Dunno, tell us all - you said you are the contracted professional







    .

    I dunno either , eight or so working with low threshold providing accommodation.
    Coner Skehan couldn't elaborate or wouldn't.


  • #130
    corner of hells
    Registered Users Posts: 8,354 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    mariaalice wrote: »
    So when the charities/NGO are rechristened as...'bland name services for vulnerable something or other' and it costs millions to run and they employ professional staff to run the service, will there still be objections to the cost.

    Professionals employed by the state ?


  • #131
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    corner of hells wrote: »
    gctest50 wrote: »
    Dunno, tell us all - you said you are the contracted professional


    .


    I dunno either , eight or so working with low threshold providing accommodation.
    Coner Skehan couldn't elaborate or wouldn't.


    Accounting firm Mazars found in excess of 75 housing and homeless service providers


    "every single one needs to have an auditor. Every one needs a premises, a company secretary, a pension scheme.”


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  • #132
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,356 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    corner of hells wrote: »
    Professionals employed by the state ?

    No it would be a NGO that morphed out of charity and have service agreements with the state to provide the supports required, the state can't employ everyone.


  • #133
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,356 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    There is a couple of strands to this thread that is getting mixed up.

    Are the services needed, who should provide them.

    Duplication of services.

    What exactly is homelessness and how is it defined.

    What is the responsibility of the state and society?

    Competing narratives based on political ideology.


  • #134
    corner of hells
    Registered Users Posts: 8,354 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    gctest50 wrote: »
    Accounting firm Mazars found in excess of 75 housing and homeless service providers

    That's correct .
    There's a lot providing housing and support for homeless .
    They vary from MQI providing crash mats on a one night only basis right up to the housing Associations providing secure supported accommodation like Circle or Sophia housing.
    Some of these do no fundraising and would rarely be in the public eye.

    Others support vulnerable individuals who's needs are very broad.

    The much maligned PMVT provides for example under 18 support , homeless services , drop in support , stabilisation and detox along with housing as well as advice.

    There's also specialised homeless accommodation for individuals with entreched chronic mental I'll health , accommodation for homeless with HIV etc .

    The reason all these exist is out of necessity .


  • #135
    corner of hells
    Registered Users Posts: 8,354 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    mariaalice wrote: »
    No it would be a NGO that morphed out of charity and have service agreements with the state to provide the supports required, the state can't employ everyone.

    That's spot on.


  • #136
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    corner of hells wrote: »
    They're are being supported differently , it's called SLI.
    Depending in you're needs , you are categorised accordingly.

    Pardon my ignorance, but what is SLI?


  • #137
    corner of hells
    Registered Users Posts: 8,354 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Pardon my ignorance, but what is SLI?

    Support to Live Independently.


  • #138
    touts
    Registered Users Posts: 6,430 ✭✭✭touts


    corner of hells wrote: »
    70 or 23 ?

    Either way it is at least 22 too many. The government should force these "charities" to merge into one and that would quickly shake the many scam artists loose.


  • #139
    corner of hells
    Registered Users Posts: 8,354 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    touts wrote: »
    Either way it is at least 22 too many. The government should force these "charities" to merge into one and that would quickly shake the many scam artists loose.

    A megacharity.


  • #140
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Owen Keegan ‘jokingly’ said that the only way to solve the homeless crisis is to stop providing beds. Does he have a point? Are people so reliant on the nanny state that they’re unable or unwilling to help themselves?
    It can be frustrating to read some cases and you wonder why some homeless, especially if they’re unemployed, cannot move to an area where accommodation is more readily available. After all, we hear of nurses and teachers etc., moving to other countries to source employment and lifestyles they desire.
    There will always be genuine cases that need support, but I cannot help feeling that some are just taking the p***.

    https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/fury-after-dublin-city-council-14012757

    No. It's the conservative view that people can simply help themselves. There's an element take advantage but we can't tar everyone with the same brush. It's hard to help yourself beyond a certain point depending on your circumstances. It's the height of ignorance on his part.
    But hey, another hate the poor thread, why not?


  • #141
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    touts wrote: »
    Either way it is at least 22 too many. The government should force these "charities" to merge into one and that would quickly shake the many scam artists loose.

    The developers and vulture funds are making more from these crises than any charity you care to write off.


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  • #142
    Whirl_wolle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 145 ✭✭Whirl_wolle


    Owen Keegan is a c*nt who should probably consider taking up permanent residency in a coffin for coming out with something like that.

    There will always be a certain demographic like druggies and down and outs who don't want to help themselves but you can't tar everyone with the same brush. There's a load of reasons why someone would face helessness.

    I know a woman who has to be out from her rental house in a few weeks time. Something about the owner taking it back. It certainly wasn't down to being a bad tenant. She had a partner for a long time and they had a child together. They split and she finds herself parenting alone now. She's finding it impossible to find a place to rent because no one will take in a single mother. She works and she's confident she can pay rent.

    We had a severe recession for a long time with many effects for many people. People losing jobs, stuck with celtic tiger mortgages. Young people coming out from school or college with poor job prospects. Facing zero hour contracts, recruitment freezes in some sectors or jobsbridge programs. These people are the next generation for a home. A home is out of reach for so many people.

    Leo talked about representing those who get up early in the morning.
    I'm one of these 1000's of people Leo was talking about. Getting up early in the morning and for fcuking what? To bring in a wage that doesn't pay a rent never mind a mortgage. If it wasn't for my mother, I'd be on the street.


  • #143
    touts
    Registered Users Posts: 6,430 ✭✭✭touts


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    The developers and vulture funds are making more from these crises than any charity you care to write off.

    We should tackle them and there seems to be some moves in that direction. But to say we'll let charities off with scamming the public because the developers and culture funds are "making more" money is missing the point. At least we expect to be scammed by developers and vulture funds. But when some ego goes on TV and lectures us on how we're not giving his charity enough money when it turns out he and hundreds of his mates are dividing up 2/3rds of the money between them in "wages" and "pensions" is morally far worse than the developer who at least never hides the fact that they are only in it for the money.


  • #144
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Whirl_wolle wrote: »
    Owen Keegan is a c*nt who should probably consider taking up permanent residency in a coffin for coming out with something like that.

    There will always be a certain demographic like druggies and down and outs who don't want to help themselves but you can't tar everyone with the same brush. There's a load of reasons why someone would face helessness.

    I know a woman who has to be out from her rental house in a few weeks time. Something about the owner taking it back. It certainly wasn't down to being a bad tenant. She had a partner for a long time and they had a child together. They split and she finds herself parenting alone now. She's finding it impossible to find a place to rent because no one will take in a single mother. She works and she's confident she can pay rent.

    We had a severe recession for a long time with many effects for many people. People losing jobs, stuck with celtic tiger mortgages. Young people coming out from school or college with poor job prospects. Facing zero hour contracts, recruitment freezes in some sectors or jobsbridge programs. These people are the next generation for a home. A home is out of reach for so many people.

    Leo talked about representing those who get up early in the morning.
    I'm one of these 1000's of people Leo was talking about. Getting up early in the morning and for fcuking what? To bring in a wage that doesn't pay a rent never mind a mortgage. If it wasn't for my mother, I'd be on the street.

    Move away from your entire social and support network if your lifelong hometown has become too expensive for you -- right wingers


  • #145
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    “Leo talked about representing those who get up early in the morning.
    I'm one of these 1000's of people Leo was talking about. Getting up early in the morning and for fcuking what? To bring in a wage that doesn't pay a rent never mind a mortgage. If it wasn't for my mother, I'd be on the street.” You’re doing it wrong. Get up earlier, like 2am,take on another job. Pay fifty percent marginal tax rate over the e35,000. You’ll be able to rent somewhere that isn’t a kip on your own for e1600+ for a one bed in Dublin. Live the dream!!!

    Karl dieter was on rte talking unbelievable sense earlier,hard to believe rte would have him on! The rip off housing costs greatly benefits many , but it f*cks the rest of us and it’s gone way too far!


  • #146
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,356 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    “Leo talked about representing those who get up early in the morning.
    I'm one of these 1000's of people Leo was talking about. Getting up early in the morning and for fcuking what? To bring in a wage that doesn't pay a rent never mind a mortgage. If it wasn't for my mother, I'd be on the street.” You’re doing it wrong. Get up earlier, like 2am,take on another job. Pay fifty percent marginal tax rate over the e35,000. You’ll be able to rent somewhere that isn’t a kip on your own for e1600+ for a one bed in Dublin. Live the dream!!!

    Karl dieter was on rte talking unbelievable sense earlier,hard to believe rte would have him on! The rip off housing costs greatly benefits many , but it f*cks the rest of us and it’s gone way too far!

    The homeless service is not there to help people like you, you need some sort of advocacy group that represents those who are working have no issues but are above the threshold limit for social housing but do not earn enough to get and sustain a mortgage. The government needs to bring back subsidies affordable housing with very tight regulation so it cannot be profited from and is viewed as a home, not an asset.


  • #147
    touts
    Registered Users Posts: 6,430 ✭✭✭touts


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    Move away from your entire social and support network if your lifelong hometown has become too expensive for you -- right wingers

    It's what people who actually work for a living have to do. Most of us live in different towns and cities or even countries from where we grew up. Dublin, Limerick, Cork London, Sydney etc are full of people from rural Ireland who have moved there for work. But apparently if you are on welfare then it is some sort of a human right to be housed on the same street as you grew up on. That is unsustainable. If the working class can be expected to make new social and support networks hundreds of miles from their hometowns then the welfare class should at least be expected to do the same especially if it is just a 15 minute Dublin Bus ride away.


  • #148
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    touts wrote: »
    It's what people who actually work for a living have to do. Most of us live in different towns and cities or even countries from where we grew up. Dublin, Limerick, Cork London, Sydney etc are full of people from rural Ireland who have moved there for work. But apparently if you are on welfare then it is some sort of a human right to be housed on the same street as you grew up on. That is unsustainable. If the working class can be expected to make new social and support networks hundreds of miles from their hometowns then the welfare class should at least be expected to do the same especially if it is just a 15 minute Dublin Bus ride away.

    It is, but it shouldn't have to be, and in a democratic society we should be able to choose as a matter of policy not to make it necessary anymore. By not treating housing as a passive commodity.


  • #149
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    It is, but it shouldn't have to be, and in a democratic society we should be able to choose as a matter of policy not to make it necessary anymore. By not treating housing as a passive commodity.

    When you have a couple of million people wanting to live in Dublin, some of those people won't be able to live within the canals, regardless of any matter of policy. It's just simple geometry, unless you propose densifying Dublin from among the least dense capitals in Europe to one of the most dense overnight.


  • #150
    Rodin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    Those who work forced to commute from long distance to pay for those living off the states in the city centre.
    Something wrong there.


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  • #151
    touts
    Registered Users Posts: 6,430 ✭✭✭touts


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    It is, but it shouldn't have to be, and in a democratic society we should be able to choose as a matter of policy not to make it necessary anymore. By not treating housing as a passive commodity.

    We can talk all day about what "should be". It's what idealistic fantasies like socialism are based on. But in the real world we can't afford to have the people who contribute the least to society (the welfare class) getting better treatment than the people who contribute the most (the working and middle classes). That utterly undermines the foundation of society where everyone contributes and gets rewarded for that contribution. Basic housing is a human right. Having a forever house, with a garden large enough for a trampoline and a couple of extra bedrooms "just in case", on the street you grew up on, and all free for life, isn't. If you want to fix it so people shouldn't have to move for a house then I would suggest the people who should get first priority in their preferred location are the people who contribute to society and not the other way around.


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