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Skint Britain Channel 4

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24

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    #32
    fryup
    Registered Users Posts: 18,069 ✭✭✭✭fryup


    SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »
    The poverty is so much worse than over here even in our worst areas

    Don't understand why they are not arriving here by the boatload to claim

    well they have every right to, seeing that we did it to them back in the 70s & 80s


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    #33
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    Condescending ignorance to tell people they have thick skulls. And to label people as ordinary.

    I'm speaking based on clear evidence before me.

    Not making gross generalisations that are factually incorrect, being based on false premises.

    Big difference.


    Nothing wrong with calling people 'ordinary' when the context is clearly a sense of separating them from

    a) those who I previously referred to sarcastically as their 'betters', and
    b) even from leaders of the campaign to 'leave' with whom they have nothing in common.

    I'd say that sense of 'ordinary' is preferable to being called a fool any day.


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    #34
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    fryup wrote: »
    well they have every right to, seeing that we did it to them back in the 70s & 80s

    The housing situation would put a halt to it. This welfare state is primarily great when you are a generational welfare family , everything already in place for you ...


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    #35
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Poverty porn.
    I want to see a show about bankers running their banks into the ground, getting bailed out by the taxpayer and then giving themselves massive bonuses.
    When's that on?


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    #36
    Church on Tuesday
    Registered Users Posts: 3,858 ✭✭✭Church on Tuesday


    It depends really.

    I took a job in Manchester cleaning office blocks while I was trying to get work in the sector I wanted.

    Lad at work told me that people would come in for an interview to be offered the job, only for the applicant to literally turn around and say that he or she didn't want the job, that they was just there as a kind of obligation - a box ticking exercise if you will for the DWP.

    Can't be much of a life, dole is next to nothing over there. And unlike rural areas where people are stuck on the dole here with poor public transport or just no work going really back here, the Brits have a pretty advanced rail network and (for now) bigger economy; there's literally no excuse to not have a job there.


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    #37
    kowloon
    Registered Users Posts: 13,281 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    As opposed to welfare Ireland where you can get 50-60000 on welfare if your from an Irish ethnic group with ten children !

    They won't be an ethnic group for long if they only have ten children between them.


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    #38
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    NIMAN wrote: »
    I was using the term 'ordinary' as it was used above to describe the type of folk on this programme. Not every leave voter.

    Would I say that there is a high level of racism among those who feature on shows like this? Definitely.

    So the poor are racist but not the rich? Nonsense. And classist.


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    #39
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,984 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    Sorry this is rich Britain with a powerhouse economy ?

    it is, and yet it has massive amounts of poverty and terminal decline. something inexcusible for a country with such an economy.
    Idbatterim wrote: »
    Shows this kip up for the banana republic it is.

    we certainly have our problems but i don't know how britain shows us to be a banana republic? i'd say if anything, britain is the banana but a monarky instead of a republic.
    Idbatterim wrote: »
    Watch those spineless rats further inflate the welfare spend again this budget!

    Fifty percent marginal rate on the working poor. Propping up the off the wall welfare state !

    the wellfare state is tiny, i'm not seeing how it is off the wall? the wellfare state is hugely over-exaggerated. absolutely it is decent as it should be and it's issues which it does have many are easy to solve.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #40
    Charles Babbage
    Registered Users Posts: 5,461 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »
    Don't understand why they are not arriving here by the boatload to claim

    Or even work!!


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    #41
    LuasSimon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭LuasSimon


    kowloon wrote: »
    They won't be an ethnic group for long if they only have ten children between them.
    Think the Birth rate for traveller women is 6.4 as against 1.8 for non traveller Irish so you they are the fastest growing part of the Irish population even if half of them are too lazy-refuse to fill in census forms.


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    #42
    LuasSimon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭LuasSimon


    SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »
    The poverty is so much worse than over here even in our worst areas

    Don't understand why they are not arriving here by the boatload to claim

    For someone on the dole in England where only for foodbanks many would starve to death , coming to this country and been on the dole in rural Ireland would be like winning the lotto!


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    #43
    SteM
    Registered Users Posts: 6,542 ✭✭✭SteM


    Lefty Bicek wrote: »
    They're not fools, and maybe if the EU had done a better job of convincing them that their lives were in any significant way better within it... the outcome might have been different.

    It was up to their own government to convince them of this long before there was any Brexit referendum. A lot of these type areas have been almost abandoned by the government, no investment and left to decay. Meanwhile the people there are left to read the Mail and Sun banging on about the country being ruined by immigration. It's no wonder areas like this voted to leave in such numbers, it was the perfect ****storm, but I don't see how you can blame it on the EU.


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    #44
    Deebles McBeebles
    Registered Users Posts: 5,748 ✭✭✭Deebles McBeebles


    20Cent wrote: »
    Poverty porn.
    I want to see a show about bankers running their banks into the ground, getting bailed out by the taxpayer and then giving themselves massive bonuses.
    When's that on?

    A few years back, you might have seen it on the news.


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    #45
    randd1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,792 ✭✭✭randd1


    DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »
    All that north east area of England could never replace the ship building industry.

    They were relatively prosperous areas with full employment at one point.

    The Empire fell, that's what happened.

    The Brits simply couldn't replace the cheap materials they were able to ship in from the colonies, and had to force a lot of these industries to close because they weren't able to fund them. Places like Sheffield, Grimsby, Scunthorpe, Sunderland, Hull all had big industries kept afloat by cheap materials, but when they could no longer rely on that, it was then government money, until the government could no longer could afford it and pulled the rug from under them, and because they were working class trades people, left them to rot.

    Not only that, but former colonies like India & Malaysia have become competition to the UK in the international markets, further piling on the hardship and expense.

    It's no wonder the voted to leave the EU, they've received no benefit from it. That it was down to their own governments policies seems to have escaped them somewhat, better to blame the foreigners than Brittania for the failure.


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    #46
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I remember the last time I had the flu, I stayed in bed watching a documentary series on YouTube called Benefits Street, about people living on welfare in the UK.

    I'm no republican but I'm delighted we broke away from that miserable society, and that we treat people with a little more compassion. If they didn't have the NHS, their system would be comparable to the US. I don't know how people put up with it. Shocking documentary.


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    #47
    irishgrover
    Registered Users Posts: 2,496 ✭✭✭irishgrover


    people here, me included, often ridicule the benefits system in this country, with regards to the amount of payments made to the long term unemployed, who appear to have limited interest in finding work. When they do find work it may be financially unviable for them to take it....
    However when you go to the other end of the scale, as in the UK, the states etc.... you have to think what kid of long term societal problems are being caused by such policies..


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    #48
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,365 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    It is a very complex issue in the UK, part of the UK are unemployment blackspots and parts are massive powerhouse self-sustaining economies such as Manchester and London and even in those there is pockets of real poverty, there is more to it than just getting a job where do all the toothless people on the likes of Jeremy Kyle come from basic dental care is more or less free in the UK.

    On the other hand, there are free school meal to those on low incomes genuinely free schooling as in at no cost to parents, The NHS is free, housing is much cheaper, there are free play schemes during the school holidays the local councils provide a lot more than here.

    In one of the most fashionable areas of Manchester prices for a house start at 200k and the locals think this is a fortune, salaries can be lower but not always.

    Basically, they have made a choice to give less cash but provide more services and we have made a choice to give cash and more or less let people sort it out themselves.

    Monden society has become more complex there use to be a place for those who did have a disability but who function at the borderline level, but not in today society.


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    #49
    DEFTLEFTHAND
    Registered Users Posts: 16,500 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    I remember the last time I had the flu, I stayed in bed watching a documentary series on YouTube called Benefits Street, about people living on welfare in the UK.

    I'm no republican but I'm delighted we broke away from that miserable society, and that we treat people with a little more compassion. If they didn't have the NHS, their system would be comparable to the US. I don't know how people put up with it. Shocking documentary.

    Jesus don't use Ireland has an eg of doing it right. A country 3 quarters the size of London who spend 20 billion per yr on welfare. That doesn't help anyone better themselves either.

    There's opportunities in Britain for those who push themselves and show drive and ambition.

    Even at that their welfare system can still enable life long state dependency. There's generations of families living on council estates in the UK who've never worked a day in their lives. It's not as if they're out on the streets starving. Like here, children can be used as a meal ticket in the UK.


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    #50
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,805 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    DEFTLEFTHAND wrote:
    Even at that their welfare system can still enable life long state dependency. There's generations of families living on council estates in the UK who've never worked a day in their lives. It's not as if they're out on the streets starving. Like here, children can be used as a meal ticket in the UK.


    So what causes long term unemployment?


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    #51
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »
    Jesus don't use Ireland has an eg of doing it right. A country 3 quarters the size of London who spend 20 billion per yr on welfare. That doesn't help anyone better themselves either.
    in fairness, most of that money goes towards payments such as pensions and child benefit.

    Jobseekers payments are relatively minor in the entire scheme of the welfare budget.


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    #52
    Cina
    Registered Users Posts: 2,387 ✭✭✭Cina


    DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »
    Jesus don't use Ireland has an eg of doing it right. A country 3 quarters the size of London who spend 20 billion per yr on welfare. That doesn't help anyone better themselves either.

    There's opportunities in Britain for those who push themselves and show drive and ambition.

    Even at that their welfare system can still enable life long state dependency. There's generations of families living on council estates in the UK who've never worked a day in their lives. It's not as if they're out on the streets starving. Like here, children can be used as a meal ticket in the UK.
    Our welfare budget is actually pretty average in the OECD, we sit somewhere in the middle. Reforms are definitely needed to combat long-term scroungers (who actually make up very little of the budget) and encourage people to get work, as well as implementing similar systems to Germany whereby you get a percentage of your wage which lowers the longer you remain unemployed, but overall it's not as insanely generous as people make out.

    Let's not forget that our generous welfare was a godsend for many people during the recession and proved to be a big part of the recovery.

    The real criminality here is the massive waste of funds that goes into other inept departments such as the HSE instead of actually doing something useful like lowering carbon emissions and building infrastructure to deal with our increasing population.


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    #53
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,174 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Cina wrote: »
    Our welfare budget is actually pretty average in the OECD, we sit somewhere in the middle. Reforms are definitely needed to combat long-term scroungers (who actually make up very little of the budget) and encourage people to get work, as well as implementing similar systems to Germany whereby you get a percentage of your wage which lowers the longer you remain unemployed, but overall it's not as insanely generous as people make out.

    Let's not forget that our generous welfare was a godsend for many people during the recession and proved to be a big part of the recovery.

    The real criminality here is the massive waste of funds that goes into other inept departments such as the HSE instead of actually doing something useful like lowering carbon emissions and building infrastructure to deal with our increasing population.

    The problem with the "Encourage them to get jobs" approach is that it assumes that there are jobs for them to get. I used to live in the North of England and frankly, some of the poverty was shocking. Any ad for a job mopping floors or stacking shelves would elicit a flood of applications. A lot of these places have just been left to rot by successive Conservative and Labour governments.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #54
    LirW
    Registered Users Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭LirW


    Someone already said it, this is pure and simple poverty porn.
    So easy to go film the poorest of the poor in the most miserable area of the country watching them barely or not even getting by.
    What stands out with all the people on the show is that they're poorly educated (the guy hunting for critters was illiterate) and that they genuinely never learnt how to look after themselves. Look at that happens when they suddenly get their money paid once a month - they have no idea what to do with it or how to budget it because they're not capable of doing that.
    In am area where the simplest of jobs have hundreds of applicants they're still the least favourable and they do not have the money to move or commute to an area with more jobs, it would still leave them hungry.

    It's really sad seeing people literally left to rot.


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    #55
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    LirW wrote: »
    Someone already said it, this is pure and simple poverty porn.
    So easy to go film the poorest of the poor in the most miserable area of the country watching them barely or not even getting by.
    What stands out with all the people on the show is that they're poorly educated (the guy hunting for critters was illiterate) and that they genuinely never learnt how to look after themselves. Look at that happens when they suddenly get their money paid once a month - they have no idea what to do with it or how to budget it because they're not capable of doing that.
    In am area where the simplest of jobs have hundreds of applicants they're still the least favourable and they do not have the money to move or commute to an area with more jobs, it would still leave them hungry.

    It's really sad seeing people literally left to rot.

    It’s a chicken and egg scenario. They have been failed by their parents in a lot of cases and then the state too afaic! The state shouldn’t be rewarding poor life choices financially ...

    They actually just make the situation worse. At least they can talk about and debate the situation over there. Over here? Could you imagine RTÉ doing a programme on the welfare state? L! O!L!


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    #56
    LirW
    Registered Users Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭LirW


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    It’s a chicken and egg scenario. They have been failed by their parents in a lot of cases and then the state too afaic! The state shouldn’t be rewarding poor life choices financially ...

    They actually just make the situation worse. At least they can talk about and debate the situation over there. Over here? Could you imagine RTÉ doing a programme on the welfare state? L! O!L!

    In the UK there are still plenty of workers that can't make ends meet and rely on UC and food banks. In this debate I miss the good proportion of people that do work and still can't get by, yet leaving isn't an option because they wouldn't find another job.

    Also it's so easy to say "get them to look for work" when there genuinely isn't any. To the poorest it doesn't matter if they don't get work in Hartlepool or London, nobody would be willing to hire them with the background and non-existent experience they have.


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    #57
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,126 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    mariaalice wrote: »
    It is a very complex issue in the UK, part of the UK are unemployment blackspots and parts are massive powerhouse self-sustaining economies such as Manchester and London and even in those there is pockets of real poverty, there is more to it than just getting a job where do all the toothless people on the likes of Jeremy Kyle come from basic dental care is more or less free in the UK.

    On the other hand, there are free school meal to those on low incomes genuinely free schooling as in at no cost to parents, The NHS is free, housing is much cheaper, there are free play schemes during the school holidays the local councils provide a lot more than here.

    In one of the most fashionable areas of Manchester prices for a house start at 200k and the locals think this is a fortune, salaries can be lower but not always.

    Basically, they have made a choice to give less cash but provide more services and we have made a choice to give cash and more or less let people sort it out themselves.

    Monden society has become more complex there use to be a place for those who did have a disability but who function at the borderline level, but not in today society.

    I was made redundant in a call centre here in 2008. The company that ran the call centre had other centres in the north of england. They said we could apply for jobs there and we'd be the first to be interviewed.

    I was on €23k a year here. Over there the same job was £14k a year. Sure rent would be less, but really the pay cut I would be taking would be massive.

    the Uk is a weird society, especially compared to us or another european country. 1 in 4 children in the Uk are in poverty. And the austerity cuts made it worse. Remember two thirds of children in poverty in the Uk live in a family that have at least one parent working.

    http://www.cpag.org.uk/content/child-poverty-facts-and-figures


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    #58
    Newsbeat
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭Newsbeat


    I think this programme is really good because it shows how bad things have got in this country. I think the problem lies with Labour. Corbyn isnt going to be prime minister. So what are people left with? The tories and no plan B for the voter. It is a horrible state of affairs right now.


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    #59
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,174 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Grayson wrote: »
    I was made redundant in a call centre here in 2008. The company that ran the call centre had other centres in the north of england. They said we could apply for jobs there and we'd be the first to be interviewed.

    I was on €23k a year here. Over there the same job was £14k a year. Sure rent would be less, but really the pay cut I would be taking would be massive.

    This doesn't surprise me. I work in a highly specialised and technical role in central London. I saw a rare vacancy in Newcastle and the salary was 40% less. I know the cost of living is a lot lower but that's a lot of one's salary to lose. Same role is back up for a few thousand more now.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #60
    gmisk
    Registered Users Posts: 31,847 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    Newsbeat wrote: »
    I think this programme is really good because it shows how bad things have got in this country. I think the problem lies with Labour. Corbyn isnt going to be prime minister. So what are people left with? The tories and no plan B for the voter. It is a horrible state of affairs right now.
    The problem lies with labour?..
    That is an interesting conclusion considering there hasnt been a labour led government since what 2010.
    Plus one of the big issues in the show is universal credit, which the Tories introduced to Hartlepool and looks like an absolute disaster.

    On the actual show the guy out gathering scrap was an odd one, he clearly said he wouldn't work in Tesco, sainsburys etc as if it was beneath him ...then gets arrested for shoplifting in sainsburys....
    Clearly there were deeper issues, it looked like alcoholism given the fact he always had a massive plastic bottle with him


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    #61
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,174 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    gmisk wrote: »
    The problem lies with labour?..
    That is an interesting conclusion considering there hasnt been a labour led government since what 2010.
    Plus one of the big issues in the show is universal credit, which the Tories introduced to Hartlepool and looks like an absolute disaster.

    Labour were in government from 1997-2010 and did very little if anything for the North of England, Wales or Scotland. NI possibly due to the GFA.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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