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Skint Britain Channel 4

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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,067 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    People use some right hyperbole about the UK. It's got problems but it's hardly a horrible ****ed up country. That's more a description of e.g. Venezuela.

    If venezuela is the benchmark than most countries are pretty good.

    I posted this a few pages back but it's worth posting again
    http://www.cpag.org.uk/content/child-poverty-facts-and-figures
    There were 4.1 million children living in poverty in the UK in 2016-17. That’s 30 per cent of children, or 9 in a classroom of 30

    Work does not provide a guaranteed route out of poverty in the UK. Two-thirds (67 per cent) of children growing up in poverty live in a family where at least one person works

    Child poverty has long-lasting effects. By GCSE, there is a 28 per cent gap between children receiving free school meals and their wealthier peers in terms of the number achieving at least 5 A*-C GCSE grades

    30% of children in the Uk are in poverty. That's fcuking horrible for a developed country. Imagine if nearly 1 in 3 children here were in poverty.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,185 ✭✭✭Tchaikovsky


    The poor blind guy crying in the phone booth while waiting for someone to answer his call was particularly bleak. Heartless bastards


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭LirW


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    Eighty euro a week. It’s based on what you pay into the system. He moved over here in the early seventies, so had very little German contributions. It’s a fair system though in my opinion, you know where you stand from the start ...

    I think it's worth to mention though that while the sum of your working years matters, the last few before you retire are a lot more significant to the pension you receive.

    Germany has a serious problem with qualified people being laid off on their early 50s since they're very expensive to employ and many won't be hired again, with no fault of their own, which results them spending their final, crucial years to work up a nice pension on SW or work in retail or hospitality.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,992 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Grayson wrote: »
    If venezuela is the benchmark than most countries are pretty good.

    I posted this a few pages back but it's worth posting again
    http://www.cpag.org.uk/content/child-poverty-facts-and-figures



    30% of children in the Uk are in poverty. That's fcuking horrible for a developed country. Imagine if nearly 1 in 3 children here were in poverty.

    The child poverty rates here are as follows:

    AROP - low incomes, i.e. relative income poverty

    18.4% of children vs. 15.7% overall rate

    Deprivation

    23.0% of children vs. 18.8% overall rate

    Consistent poverty

    8.8% of children vs. 6.7% overall rate

    https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-silc/surveyonincomeandlivingconditionssilc2017/


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,067 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Geuze wrote: »
    The child poverty rates here are as follows:

    AROP - low incomes, i.e. relative income poverty

    18.4% of children vs. 15.7% overall rate

    Deprivation

    23.0% of children vs. 18.8% overall rate

    Consistent poverty

    8.8% of children vs. 6.7% overall rate

    https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-silc/surveyonincomeandlivingconditionssilc2017/

    I've mentioned this before. A few years ago I was doing my masters in business management. My dissertation was on prepaid utilities (I didn't get to choose my own topic, there's no way i would have chosen that).
    Part of my research was looking into the market for prepaid utilities including electricity. I read a load of studies done by MABS. It was heartbreaking reading about women trying to scrape together a fiver to keep the lights on at home or stop their children getting cold.


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    Grayson wrote: »
    If venezuela is the benchmark than most countries are pretty good.

    I posted this a few pages back but it's worth posting again
    http://www.cpag.org.uk/content/child-poverty-facts-and-figures



    30% of children in the Uk are in poverty. That's fcuking horrible for a developed country. Imagine if nearly 1 in 3 children here were in poverty.

    CHild poverty is measured thus https://www.childrenssociety.org.uk/what-we-do/our-work/ending-child-poverty/what-is-child-poverty
    The reality of living in poverty
    A couple with two children living in poverty has less than £58 per day – that’s £15 each - after housing costs to pay for food, bills, childcare, transport, household items, clothes and other expenses like school trips or children’s activities.

    The same family on average income in the UK has about £96 per day – that’s £24 each - to cover these things.

    A child is said to be living in poverty when they are living in a family with an income below 60% of the UK's average after adjusting for family size.

    So when you have some exceptionally high earners, like the UK does, it brings the average disproportionately higher. If you said to a lot of people that as they only have £1740 per month to pay for food and bills etc. therefore they are living in poverty, they would probably laugh.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭LuasSimon


    Final episode on at 9PM tonight .
    Anyone on social welfare long term in this country should be made watch it and see how good they have it compared to the poor bxxtards on the dole in England .

    The dole here is 3-4 times what it is England and uncapped ie have as many kids as you want compared to max children allowance for 2 in England .


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,833 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    Final episode on at 9PM tonight .
    Anyone on social welfare long term in this country should be made watch it and see how good they have it compared to the poor bxxtards on the dole in England .

    The dole here is 3-4 times what it is England and uncapped ie have as many kids as you want compared to max children allowance for 2 in England .

    Spot on. The world class welfare paid out here is staggering. As if the lifers would watch anything that would educate them though. No other country in the world bends over backwards more to facilitate these wasters and their excuses. Paid for by the working poor amongst others , paying a marginal tax rate of 50%! You couldn’t make it up, but you don’t need to! It’s ireland !


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    The dole here is 3-4 times what it is England and uncapped ie have as many kids as you want compared to max children allowance for 2 in England .

    You're directing your anger at the wrong benefit, those on the dole are subject to activation schemes. Those on OPFP are not subject to activation schemes and can pop out as many kids as they like to continue payment. Of course, we need those kids to pay for our pensions assuming they work when they are adults, I reckon most do work.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,027 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    I've paid a shit ton of tax in my life and a chunk of that went towards social welfare payments of all kinds("dole heads" are a minority of such payments) and yes while I have major issues in how government and public service types spend/waste that money in quite a few areas and yes there are lifetime scroungers, I would still prefer all that than the UK setup, or god forbid the American one. It might impact me as an individual at times, but it's far better for the society.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,833 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Wibbs wrote: »
    I've paid a shit ton of tax in my life and a chunk of that went towards social welfare payments of all kinds("dole heads" are a minority of such payments) and yes while I have major issues in how government and public service types spend/waste that money in quite a few areas and yes there are lifetime scroungers, I would still prefer all that than the UK setup, or god forbid the American one. It might impact me as an individual at times, but it's far better for the society.

    that attitude is no doubt easier to adopt if you arent young or are already a homeowner! working people on low incomes struggling to pay for this **** show, will have a totally different perspective. Commuting past generational families of wasters on a miserable commute, from the back arse or nowhere down to the docklands for instance, where you have generations of wasters living in prime locations, paying miniscule rent with the free money they get from the taxpayer. Throwing a life time of free money at them, isnt a solution or one the uk, germany, us accept and Id agree with it.

    They were no doubt failed by their parents, then the state in a way. But I dont think just saying, "here, have hundreds of thosands of taxpayer money for the rest of your life" while workers struggle is an option. For the total lost causes, give them a once of tens of thousands while young, if they have the snip!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭ Bridget Steep Hearse


    Whilst the uk has low unemployment, it's worth noting that many of these 'new jobs' are either zero-hours contracts, temporary or part-time (gig-economy).

    As Jezza Corbyn tells May each week, the rich get richer (generous property relief and trust funds to avoid any meaningful inheritance tax), and the poor get poorer, in the world's 5th economy.




    Guess world rank really means very little, the #1 (US) NW region is still in the grip of a drugs epidemic, 100,000 users in Chicago on horse 'n crack. Plenty of no-go areas, then there's Detroit...


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,928 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    that attitude is no doubt easier to adopt if you arent young or are already a homeowner!

    or someone who isn't a home owner and who is young, but is pragmatic.
    Idbatterim wrote: »
    working people on low incomes struggling to pay for this **** show, will have a totally different perspective.

    some indeed will. others won't because they realise there is little alternative. at least not one that costs less and delivers a better society.
    Idbatterim wrote: »
    Commuting past generational families of wasters on a miserable commute, from the back arse or nowhere down to the docklands for instance, where you have generations of wasters living in prime locations, paying miniscule rent with the free money they get from the taxpayer.

    nothing can be done to change that. even if all wellfare dependants in dublin or other cities were socially cleansed from the cities to the back arse of nowhere with all that brings, this would still continue to happen due to the housing market.
    Idbatterim wrote: »
    Throwing a life time of free money at them, isnt a solution or one the uk, germany, us accept and Id agree with it.

    it may not be something the US and uk accept, but unlike germany they don't implement an actual workable alternative and their societies show it with the rampent poverty and crime.
    you can agree with the uk and US away, that is your problem and ultimately doesn't matter, but the thing is, it's not about you but aboute the cost to society and in that regard, the uk and especially the us system is a complete failure which does nothing for society
    Idbatterim wrote: »
    They were no doubt failed by their parents, then the state in a way. But I dont think just saying, "here, have hundreds of thosands of taxpayer money for the rest of your life" while workers struggle is an option. For the total lost causes, give them a once of tens of thousands while young, if they have the snip!

    if there were other viable options they would be implemented. the state isn't giving such people money for the hell of it. they are doing it, because they believe that while it does cost a bit, the monitary cost outweighs the likely costs of not doing so.

    shut down alcohol action ireland now! end MUP today!



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,027 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    that attitude is no doubt easier to adopt if you arent young or are already a homeowner! working people on low incomes struggling to pay for this **** show, will have a totally different perspective.
    Well I was young once and not a homeowner and coming of age in the 1980's with high taxation, feck all jobs, much higher unemployment and low wages and expensive and hard to access credit and a rush to the ports and airports to get out of the place among my peers and still I didn't begrudge genuine cases, of which there are many, if not most. And I was never on the dole, was paying taxes to beat the band and didn't take social welfare until I ended up being a carer and that was only for the last three years of ten where I supported myself and the person in need and all the expense of that until my savings ran out and I was in the red. And I wouldn't have begrudged someone who had gone to the social welfare for help earlier than I did. Indeed I was a bit of a fool not to(not just the money, such as it was, more the extra supports that come with it. Homecare and such).

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,833 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Wibbs I respect your posts and you as a poster. But I and many people I know, are taking a hit to my standard of living, to pay for this. The politicians here just do what they think is easiest. I don’t agree with letting people just rot on the dole, they should be retrained or upskilled etc. it’s buying the problem off and sweeping it under the rug. I don’t morally agree with it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,928 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    Wobbs I respect your posts and you as a poster. But I and many people I know, are taking a hit to my standard of living, to pay for this.

    the thing is, even if the wellfare system did change to something like the uk or US, you wouldn't be getting a reduction in taxes. so unfortunately you would still be taking a hit, as would i, and everyone else.
    Idbatterim wrote: »
    The politicians here just do what they think is easiest.

    in a lot of cases yes, however i am not sure that is the case for wellfare. the government are likely doing what is pragmatic given the funds we have available.
    Idbatterim wrote: »
    I don’t agree with letting people just rot on the dole, they should be retrained or upskilled etc. it’s buying the problem off and sweeping it under the rug. I don’t morally agree with it.

    the thing is, there are only so many that can be retrained or upskilled given that there are only a certain amount of jobs that are availible in a country, and there will be competition for those from existing candidates. we certainly do need to do better at attracting more companies, but as it is, our unemployment rate seems to be falling. those who want to work will do so, even if they are out of the work place for a long time. the few who actually don't want to work, who would want them working with them or for them anyway?
    we'd all love to live in a society where there is a job for everyone but unfortunately those days are gone. mechanisation finished that off and who knows what automation will ultimately bring.
    there is no way the problem is being swept under the rug, we know the problem exists. however unless we can find a way with a guaranteed good return at reasonable cost, and which causes no problem but solves the actual problem, then it seems the government are just doing what is felt is the most viable and practical option given our limited funding. so nothing is being bought off here, just that the type of wellfare system you would like isn't workable or achievable and we have the fallout from countries like the UK and US to show this from what i can see.

    shut down alcohol action ireland now! end MUP today!



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,182 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    Just seen the last episode - what struck me, throughout the three episodes, is that it didn't show anyone even trying to find a job, just bemoaning how bad the welfare state is and other more seriously bad behaviour like showing your face on camera then going to rob drug dealers, or get a loan off loan shark then threaten them with knives when it was payment day or not bothering to pay your rent even tho you had been given the money to pay it.
    Whilst the program highlighted the difficulties with the system it certainly didn't focus on the best of society rather the habitual benefitters (bar the blind mand and the one woman who had always worked and then was out of a job)


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,934 ✭✭✭✭fin12


    fritzelly wrote: »
    Just seen the last episode - what struck me, throughout the three episodes, is that it didn't show anyone even trying to find a job, just bemoaning how bad the welfare state is and other more seriously bad behaviour like showing your face on camera then going to rob drug dealers, or get a loan off loan shark then threaten them with knives when it was payment day or not bothering to pay your rent even tho you had been given the money to pay it.
    Whilst the program highlighted the difficulties with the system it certainly didn't focus on the best of society rather the habitual benefitters (bar the blind mand and the one woman who had always worked and then was out of a job)

    Because they are not employable, why is it that society thinks everyone can work? They can’t even understand what they are suppose d to do to keep their universal credit? Even when they get a letter saying ur payment is €6 for the month they don’t even try to figure out why? I’m not talking about the blind man but the couple, they just f*ck off and go robbing instead and ye think these people can be in paid employment.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,182 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    Anyone under 40 even 50 who is unemployable is such because they have made themselves so
    Fine if there is no jobs, like Hartlepool, but don't make excuses for knackers
    Everyone gets education for free and in the uk and Ireland it's not a choice, you go to school. Unless you have a mental disability then no excuse. Some of the shows participants were far from stupid


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭ChikiChiki


    I think our system is far too generous and the British system far too harsh. There is a middleground there somewhere. Incentives to not work in Ireland are fairly attractive.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    Wibbs I respect your posts and you as a poster. But I and many people I know, are taking a hit to my standard of living, to pay for this. The politicians here just do what they think is easiest. I don’t agree with letting people just rot on the dole, they should be retrained or upskilled etc. it’s buying the problem off and sweeping it under the rug. I don’t morally agree with it.

    So you ignore the OPFP claimants with their "freebies" , ignore the high welfare pension payments and keep lashing out at the dole as the cause of all your misery, you'd be an excellent writer for the tabloids!

    As for your standard of living and assuming you made the right choices in life, the recent cost of the childrens hospital, a couple of billion spent on Irish Water and god knows what on the forthcoming broadband plan, repaying the banking debt and our beloved politicians pay rises all play a part. Let's begrudge the dole recipient trying to fee themselves though, easier target.
    fritzelly wrote: »
    Anyone under 40 even 50 who is unemployable is such because they have made themselves so
    Fine if there is no jobs, like Hartlepool, but don't make excuses for knackers
    Everyone gets education for free and in the uk and Ireland it's not a choice, you go to school. Unless you have a mental disability then no excuse. Some of the shows participants were far from stupid

    Some people who worked all their lives do get redundant in their 40's and 50's and find it very difficult to get another job due to ageism in the hiring process. Education is not free in Ireland, ask any parents about school and college fees. And a good education depends on which school a child attended, flash the cash and your child can attend a privileged private school and end up qualifying to be a doctor or a solicitor.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,182 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    Not talking about peple who have worked the past 20/30 years


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,833 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    “So you ignore the OPFP claimants with their "freebies" , ignore the high welfare pension payments and keep lashing out at the dole as the cause of all your misery, you'd be an excellent writer for the tabloids!

    As for your standard of living and assuming you made the right choices in life, the recent cost of the childrens hospital, a couple of billion spent on Irish Water and god knows what on the forthcoming broadband plan, repaying the banking debt and our beloved politicians pay rises all play a part. Let's begrudge the dole recipient trying to fee themselves though, easier target.”

    I said the off the wall welfare state. Of course that includes the most pampered demographic of pensioners. Why are rte never doing any documentaries on the welfare state here ? Why can’t this be discussed in the open here ! The ajh brigade bemoaning everything here. They should be fckuing thankful, the ignorant morons live in a country where low paid are Paying a marginal tax rate fit for the wolf of Wall Street and they have the gall to complain about the world class welfare state and every bloody effort and change the state gives them here? I don’t have an ounce of sympathy.

    No tds etc will challenge their bs either. Ive heard the tories tear into them over there. I think it’s fine to question the welfare state with our massive national debt, joke infrastructure, not enough prison spaces to lock up dangerous scum etc ...


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,928 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    “So you ignore the OPFP claimants with their "freebies" , ignore the high welfare pension payments and keep lashing out at the dole as the cause of all your misery, you'd be an excellent writer for the tabloids!

    As for your standard of living and assuming you made the right choices in life, the recent cost of the childrens hospital, a couple of billion spent on Irish Water and god knows what on the forthcoming broadband plan, repaying the banking debt and our beloved politicians pay rises all play a part. Let's begrudge the dole recipient trying to fee themselves though, easier target.”

    I said the off the wall welfare state. Of course that includes the most pampered demographic of pensioners. Why are rte never doing any documentaries on the welfare state here ? Why can’t this be discussed in the open here ! The ajh brigade bemoaning everything here. They should be fckuing thankful, the ignorant morons live in a country where low paid are Paying a marginal tax rate fit for the wolf of Wall Street and they have the gall to complain about the world class welfare state and every bloody effort and change the state gives them here? I don’t have an ounce of sympathy.

    No tds etc will challenge their bs either. Ive heard the tories tear into them over there. I think it’s fine to question the welfare state with our massive national debt, joke infrastructure, not enough prison spaces to lock up dangerous scum etc ...

    presumably rte aren't doing programs on the wellfare state because there is little demand for them? that wouldn't surprise me tbh. people have better things to watch and do then some agenda driven wellfare program. especially when the likes of channel 5 have plenty of those on offer all be it about the uk wellfare state. mind you for someone who wants to watch a program and to get angry at those on wellfare, any wellfare system and program should surely do?
    as for this myth that wellfare can't be discussed in the open. who exactly is stopping us from discussing it in the open? certainly not the media given wellfare is discussed across talk radio programs from time to time and you will find wellfare stories from time to time within the papers where relevant.
    the tories in the uk rip into everyone. britain is in the mess it is in because of much of their policies. from 1979 to 1997 and after 2010 when they got back in. they are a party which have no credibility.
    like i said, even if we were to change the wellfare system to a UK or US style one, there would be no tax reductions and all other issues would remain. you can only have tax reductions or improved infrastructure, you can't have both.

    shut down alcohol action ireland now! end MUP today!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,421 ✭✭✭ToddyDoody


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    I said the off the wall welfare state. Of course that includes the most pampered demographic of pensioners. Why are rte never doing any documentaries on the welfare state here ? Why can’t this be discussed in the open here ! The ajh brigade bemoaning everything here. They should be fckuing thankful, the ignorant morons live in a country where low paid are Paying a marginal tax rate fit for the wolf of Wall Street and they have the gall to complain about the world class welfare state and every bloody effort and change the state gives them here? I don’t have an ounce of sympathy.

    TV3 kindof did a few:

    https://www.boards.ie/b/thread/2056735264?

    https://www.boards.ie/b/thread/2057692457#102253613

    In many ways they're the television equivalent of trolling.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    They should be fckuing thankful, the ignorant morons live in a country where low paid are Paying a marginal tax rate fit for the wolf of Wall Street and they have the gall to complain about the world class welfare state and every bloody effort and change the state gives them here? I don’t have an ounce of sympathy.

    No tds etc will challenge their bs either. Ive heard the tories tear into them over there. I think it’s fine to question the welfare state with our massive national debt, joke infrastructure, not enough prison spaces to lock up dangerous scum etc ...

    The low paid do not pay the marginal rate of income tax, where did you spring that from?
    And if you want more prison spaces(and public services), that will cost more in income tax to put it up on the same rate our continental cousins. You really do need to look at income tax rates in Euroland, it's quite high compared to here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,934 ✭✭✭✭fin12


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    “So you ignore the OPFP claimants with their "freebies" , ignore the high welfare pension payments and keep lashing out at the dole as the cause of all your misery, you'd be an excellent writer for the tabloids!

    As for your standard of living and assuming you made the right choices in life, the recent cost of the childrens hospital, a couple of billion spent on Irish Water and god knows what on the forthcoming broadband plan, repaying the banking debt and our beloved politicians pay rises all play a part. Let's begrudge the dole recipient trying to fee themselves though, easier target.”

    I said the off the wall welfare state. Of course that includes the most pampered demographic of pensioners. Why are rte never doing any documentaries on the welfare state here ? Why can’t this be discussed in the open here ! The ajh brigade bemoaning everything here. They should be fckuing thankful, the ignorant morons live in a country where low paid are Paying a marginal tax rate fit for the wolf of Wall Street and they have the gall to complain about the world class welfare state and every bloody effort and change the state gives them here? I don’t have an ounce of sympathy.

    No tds etc will challenge their bs either. Ive heard the tories tear into them over there. I think it’s fine to question the welfare state with our massive national debt, joke infrastructure, not enough prison spaces to lock up dangerous scum etc ...
    There are plenty welfare bashing threads on here to talk about it to your hearts content.

    To be honest those welfare programs are actually very depressing. Would definitely not like to see an Irish one beeen made.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,934 ✭✭✭✭fin12


    klaaaz wrote: »
    The low paid do not pay the marginal rate of income tax, where did you spring that from?
    And if you want more prison spaces(and public services), that will cost more in income tax to put it up on the same rate our continental cousins. You really do need to look at income tax rates in Euroland, it's quite high compared to here.

    Ya I couldn’t understand that, was he trying to say low paid workers pay 40% tax.??


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