If nurofen plus (codeine) can be sold otc, why not other drugs?

ArchXStanton · 23-02-2019 12:47pm

Just looking at another really sad thread there, can some pain get so bad that even morphine won't touch it? I've always maintained that if I ever or a loved one ever ended up so bad I'd ask the medical staff to load me up, I won't be walking out of here.

The high horse brigade · 23-02-2019 12:55pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Humans will always experiment with mind altering substances, we always have

Exactly, a toddler will spin around in circles until they fall over. It's in our nature

pleas advice · 23-02-2019 12:57pm

flazio wrote: »

I personally disagree with this. Good education on the effects and side effects and the possible reactions some may experience if they have an adverse reaction could make a difference.

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Humans will always experiment with mind altering substances, we always have

Saw a video on whatsapp of some lad off his head playing with himself, that kind of thing should be shown to teenagers, should be education enough for young people to know what they're taking, and don't over do it

Gimme A Pound · 23-02-2019 12:57pm

gctest50 wrote: »

Set up a stall in a shopping centre handing out df118 and they'd be like cats around you

Ah, that's the name, couldn't remember it. I got that for a tooth abscess after multiple Nurofen Plus didn't touch it.

Very very effective pain reliever.

Wanderer78 · 23-02-2019 1:56pm

pleas advice wrote: »

Saw a video on whatsapp of some lad off his head playing with himself, that kind of thing should be shown to teenagers, should be education enough for young people to know what they're taking, and don't over do it

work away, but educating teenagers about the issues of taking drugs has been a part of our educational system for many decades now, is it working?

Mad_maxx · 23-02-2019 2:07pm

Davian Round Pet wrote: »

You've had a fecking shyte time Maxx - my dad broke a rib recently too and the poor man was in horrific pain. He said the worst was when he had to cough or if he sneezed. And tmi I know, but going for a "number 2" - hellish; poor thing.

My mother, who is far from someone who believes in pharmaceuticals being the answer all the time, was a nurse on a cancer ward years back and the look in the patients' eyes has haunted her since; they begged her to put them out of their misery.

My gran, a few months before she died (a great old age - nearly 100 - but was it great when her last few years were agony?) asked my cousin's husband if he knew any of them drug dealing fellas (he must have had that look about him in her head ) and if they could sort her out with something. It's funny but god love her.

I went to Cork University Hospital with a flipping horrendous tooth abscess one time (bank holiday Monday of course) and the dental hospital was closed so they said the doctor would see me (pointless exercise but anyway) - shur all he said was "Keep taking Nurofen" even when I told him three Nurofen at a time wasn't working. But went to the dentist the next day and whatever gear they gave me was unreal. :pac:

That 25-year-old woman in Cork who chopped her finger off because of years in severe pain (and tried to chop it off with an axe three and a half years ago too :eek:) - look at what she was driven to!

I was more devil's advocate earlier on this thread but my eyes have been seriously open, and a flood of memories have come back!

Always thought cannabis should be legalised but even moreso now.

It really is bad here all right - I wonder what it stems from? Kinda a self flagellating thing?

I'll likely be having foot surgery within a year but according to my Orthopedic consultant, chances of post surgery pain is high due to my history of chronic lasting pain

I'll ask him to amputate the foot if the situation does not improve, obviously they won't do that but if someone told me today it would be a solution, I'd hand them the axe, can't even walk around a small supermarket right now without nearly puking with the pain

Mad_maxx · 23-02-2019 2:17pm

gctest50 wrote: »

The over-the-counter ones have a lot of paracetamol in them, if you get too fond of them you'll probably get liver failure from the paracetamol and end up in hospital (or dead) = why they can be sold over the counter

Set up a stall in a shopping centre handing out df118 and they'd be like cats around you

Obviously drugs have consequences but the health service is far too content to tell pain sufferers to suck it up, saw a consultant Orthopedic in Galway last summer who my GP thought would explain MRI results better, paid him 180 euro for the following advice

me = "Mr consultant, can you tell me how to deal with the unbearable pain"

Consultant = " just stop thinking about the pain and it will go away, you go into too much detail about it so are obviously preoccupied with it"

Me = " you asked me when I walked in here, to detail what happened"

So there you have it, people can just will the pain away

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 23-02-2019 8:06pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

work away, but educating teenagers about the issues of taking drugs has been a part of our educational system for many decades now, is it working?

We have...?? News to me! All I remember is "just say no" and "not even once" which would hardly be considered "educating" and most certainly never touched on any issues.

Wanderer78 · 23-02-2019 8:35pm

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

We have...?? News to me! All I remember is "just say no" and "not even once" which would hardly be considered "educating" and most certainly never touched on any issues.

completely agree, theres a major deficit in our educational system regarding education on drug related issues, its a bit of a disaster really, and it doesnt sound like its improving at all

Gimme A Pound · 24-02-2019 3:21am

noubliezjamais wrote: »

+1. Most of the opiods deaths in the U.S. are caused by doctors cutting off patients who then turn to cheaper alternatives (heroin, fentanyl)

From what I've learned through a number of recent documentaries on the subject, before the clampdown on opiate-based painkillers being liberally prescribed in the US (1999 I believe) patients were being given prescriptions for irresponsible amounts. And then when there was a sudden cut-off, either in 1999 or before that when the doctor felt eventually that they were taking too much, they were in the throes of addiction, thus causing them to turn to the "street" alternative. Or because they simply no longer had enough money to pay for the legit drugs.

It seems as though there should have been more of a limit to what they were prescribed in the first place, and that there should have been a programme involving a replacement to address the addiction.

Also there have been cases where their teenage children or grandchildren would steal their pills to get high, and distribute/sell them to friends also, resulting in more addicts. That's not the doctor's/chemist's fault though, but another horribly sad outcome.

24-02-2019 3:56am

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Just looking at another really sad thread there, can some pain get so bad that even morphine won't touch it?

yes, bone cancer.

Probably most types of cancer, but definitely that one.

jopax · 24-02-2019 9:31am

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

yes, bone cancer.

Probably most types of cancer, but definitely that one.

Surely they could provide for stronger pain relief such as fetanal, which is 100 times stronger than heroin.
I've learned that from documentaries in the States.

Sardonicat · 24-02-2019 9:35am

Dosen't work towards the end.

jopax · 24-02-2019 9:52am

Sardonicat wrote: »

Dosen't work towards the end.

It's horrific to think people are left in agony like that especially when there is no hope. You wouldn't leave an animal suffer like that.

24-02-2019 10:02am

jopax wrote: »

Surely they could provide for stronger pain relief such as fetanal, which is 100 times stronger than heroin.
I've learned that from documentaries in the States.

maybe some medic will we able to give a better explanation, but no. My Dad had prostate cancer which spread to his bones, and when you have bone cancer, your bones can break anytime you're moved. It's not a nice illness.

They do give morphine, but in doing that, everyone knows that you're hastening the onset of death. Which is a welcome relief to be quite honest.

ArchXStanton · 24-02-2019 12:06pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

maybe some medic will we able to give a better explanation, but no. My Dad had prostate cancer which spread to his bones, and when you have bone cancer, your bones can break anytime you're moved. It's not a nice illness.

They do give morphine, but in doing that, everyone knows that you're hastening the onset of death. Which is a welcome relief to be quite honest.

Actually I can remember a good few years back now being in a bar in Townsville, Queensland and I got talking to a nurse, that area of Australia is known for jellyfish and its not advised to swim in the sea. She was telling me it was either the box jellyfish or Irukanji jellyfish, that when a person that had been stung came in they would be pumping them full of morphine to little effect

Vela · 24-02-2019 12:29pm

Rennaws wrote: »

No.

I take codeine for chronic nerve pain. I get Solpadol caps with pure codeine tabs added as it’s the paracetamol and ibuprofen contained in solpadol and neurofen that causes most physical harm to people.

Ive also been on OxyCodone for short periods when the pain gets really bad and I wouldn’t want to be on it for long. There’s no comparison other then that they’re both from the opiate family. Oxy will knock you on your ass. Nurofen Plus are like sweets in comparison.

So would I. It’s incredibly effective for nerve pain, probably as effective for me as codeine with way fewer side effects.

Have you found codeine very effective for nerve pain? It doesn't touch mine:( Been prescribed Oxy in the past too but it made me really sick - puking rings around myself. I take Kapake (like Tylex) for migraines the odd time and even that makes me nauseous. I don't understand the "buzz" people say they get from them at all.

The Bishop Basher · 24-02-2019 1:24pm

Vela wrote: »

Have you found codeine very effective for nerve pain? It doesn't touch mine:( Been prescribed Oxy in the past too but it made me really sick - puking rings around myself. I take Kapake (like Tylex) for migraines the odd time and even that makes me nauseous. I don't understand the "buzz" people say they get from them at all.

Yeah I’m lucky in that codeine works well for me. I take solpadol everyday and top up with codeine when it gets bad. It doesn’t eliminate the pain but makes it a lot more manageable.

I was on Oxy for a month or so when it was at its worst and I was off my face the entire time. I couldn’t function at all but then I couldn’t function anyway and it was preferable to living with the pain at the time. I still don’t know how I managed to work through it. I worked from home but I spent a lot of time just sleeping.

It was tough for my family to watch but the times I was off my head were the only times I had relief. I’m very thankful I had a GP who had the balls to give me what I needed, when I needed it. He saved my sanity.

I also took Lyrica for a year but the side effects weren’t worth it and I don’t know how much good it did anyway so I came off that a while ago.

Hopefully I’m out the other side and will continue to see improvement but I have nothing but sympathy for anyone living with chronic pain. It’s one of the least understood conditions and it’s effects are vastly underestimated by some people in the medical profession.

If there are drugs available to help people in pain they should be prescribed. Anyone rattling on about addiction as a reason not to prescribe them can count themselves lucky they’re in a position to judge. They’ve clearly never had to live with chronic pain. It’s literally torture.

Vela · 24-02-2019 2:03pm

Rennaws wrote: »

Yeah I’m lucky in that codeine works well for me. I take solpadol everyday and top up with codeine when it gets bad. It doesn’t eliminate the pain but makes it a lot more manageable.

I was on Oxy for a month or so when it was at its worst and I was off my face the entire time. I couldn’t function at all but then I couldn’t function anyway and it was preferable to living with the pain at the time. I still don’t know how I managed to work through it. I worked from home but I spent a lot of time just sleeping.

It was tough for my family to watch but the times I was off my head were the only times I had relief. I’m very thankful I had a GP who had the balls to give me what I needed, when I needed it. He saved my sanity.

I also took Lyrica for a year but the side effects weren’t worth it and I don’t know how much good it did anyway so I came off that a while ago.

Hopefully I’m out the other side and will continue to see improvement but I have nothing but sympathy for anyone living with chronic pain. It’s one of the least understood conditions and it’s effects are vastly underestimated by some people in the medical profession.

If there are drugs available to help people in pain they should be prescribed. Anyone rattling on about addiction as a reason not to prescribe them can count themselves lucky they’re in a position to judge. They’ve clearly never had to live with chronic pain. It’s literally torture.

Been down the Lyrica et all road too and I honestly think they're far worse than opiates re: dangerous side effects. I'm also fortunate to have a great GP, but I know that it's only because I've been going to him for years so he's familiar with my whole history. I think that most GPs now would be very wary to prescribe opiates or nerve pain meds to new patients.

Gimme A Pound · 24-02-2019 2:25pm

Rennaws wrote: »

I have nothing but sympathy for anyone living with chronic pain. It’s one of the least understood conditions and it’s effects are vastly underestimated by some people in the medical profession.

And it's bizarre that there is such a lack of understanding. Everyone has experienced physical pain and knows it's miserable - even when it's not even that severe, like a run of the mill headache. Surely it should be one of the more relatable conditions.

Mad_maxx · 24-02-2019 2:26pm

Rennaws wrote: »

Yeah I’m lucky in that codeine works well for me. I take solpadol everyday and top up with codeine when it gets bad. It doesn’t eliminate the pain but makes it a lot more manageable.

I was on Oxy for a month or so when it was at its worst and I was off my face the entire time. I couldn’t function at all but then I couldn’t function anyway and it was preferable to living with the pain at the time. I still don’t know how I managed to work through it. I worked from home but I spent a lot of time just sleeping.

It was tough for my family to watch but the times I was off my head were the only times I had relief. I’m very thankful I had a GP who had the balls to give me what I needed, when I needed it. He saved my sanity.

I also took Lyrica for a year but the side effects weren’t worth it and I don’t know how much good it did anyway so I came off that a while ago.

Hopefully I’m out the other side and will continue to see improvement but I have nothing but sympathy for anyone living with chronic pain. It’s one of the least understood conditions and it’s effects are vastly underestimated by some people in the medical profession.

If there are drugs available to help people in pain they should be prescribed. Anyone rattling on about addiction as a reason not to prescribe them can count themselves lucky they’re in a position to judge. They’ve clearly never had to live with chronic pain. It’s literally torture.

There is a terrible smugness inherent in many doctors attitudes to pain, on one hand most are utterly impotent to solve the problem and don't even understand it but they still insist on the self satisfying lecture about addiction

One can only assume they believe its all in the patients head as they absolutely prioritise not taking strong appropriate painkillers over providing relief

I could not care less if I turn into a "junkie" or if they shave 20 years off my life, I've no quality of life anymore anyway.

I'll eventually buy online and take my chances as I'm nearly a year being refused proper medication

Mad_maxx · 24-02-2019 2:32pm

Davian Round Pet wrote: »

And it's bizarre that there is such a lack of understanding. Everyone has experienced physical pain and knows it's miserable - even when it's not even that severe, like a run of the mill headache. Surely it should be one of the more relatable conditions.

Doctors don't like being on the same level as regular people, when it comes to pain, they are as clueless as the people sitting in the GP waiting room, they thus vent by way of insinuating that the pain is imagined or dress it up in flowery rhetoric about how different people perceive pain differently, it's effectively telling someone "your just a little delicate flower and your annoying me" ( I still want your money though)

DavyD_83 · 24-02-2019 2:37pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

work away, but educating teenagers about the issues of taking drugs has been a part of our educational system for many decades now, is it working?

To be honest, the fact that yourself and others think what is delivered in schools is sufficient and useful drug education is a huge part of the problem.
From what I can see, Irish people still learn about drink and drugs by observibg friends, family and peers. The quality and focus of this completely depends on their environment.

Granted, I'm out of the secondary system since 2002, but if the education you're referring to is what i (and from what I can tell most people my age) received, it is not for for purpose.
Like our sex education (that I got) it ticked the "information given, aren't we progressive" box, but with little regard for the truth or relevance of that info.

The Bishop Basher · 24-02-2019 3:57pm

Vela wrote: »

Been down the Lyrica et all road too and I honestly think they're far worse than opiates re: dangerous side effects.

Agreed. A bit like weed being illegal in a country that celebrates alcohol, we seem to make a habit of denying people access to perfectly good drugs for fear they might actually make them feel good while instead giving them alternatives that have far worse side effects and can be a lot more difficult to get off.

I remember being horrified to read on the lyrica label that the manufacturers themselves don't know how it works. We're all essentially guinea pigs for these pharmaceutical companies who know full well that we're willing to take risks and put our bodies on the line in search of a bit of relief..

Davian Round Pet wrote: »

And it's bizarre that there is such a lack of understanding. Everyone has experienced physical pain and knows it's miserable - even when it's not even that severe, like a run of the mill headache. Surely it should be one of the more relatable conditions.

I suppose it's difficult because pain isn't tangible. I've had every scan available and they can't find the source so what do you treat when everything you've been taught tells you there's nothing wrong ? For a doctor it's a cul de sac in terms of their knowledge. Some respond by helping us treat the symptoms while others tell us were making it up.

Mad_maxx · 24-02-2019 5:43pm

Rennaws wrote: »

Agreed. A bit like weed being illegal in a country that celebrates alcohol, we seem to make a habit of denying people access to perfectly good drugs for fear they might actually make them feel good while instead giving them alternatives that have far worse side effects and can be a lot more difficult to get off.

I remember being horrified to read on the lyrica label that the manufacturers themselves don't know how it works. We're all essentially guinea pigs for these pharmaceutical companies who know full well that we're willing to take risks and put our bodies on the line in search of a bit of relief..

I suppose it's difficult because pain isn't tangible. I've had every scan available and they can't find the source so what do you treat when everything you've been taught tells you there's nothing wrong ? For a doctor it's a cul de sac in terms of their knowledge. Some respond by helping us treat the symptoms while others tell us were making it up.

Nerves don't show up on scans. Pain where no physiological damage exists is nearly always due to nerve damage

Vela · 24-02-2019 10:16pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Nerves don't show up on scans. Pain where no physiological damage exists is nearly always due to nerve damage

A neurological exam and nerve conduction test/s and blood tests are the best bet for diagnosing anything when it's nerve damage, but a scan can show an initial trigger - i.e. disc problems.

Mad_maxx · 25-02-2019 12:12am

Vela wrote: »

A neurological exam and nerve conduction test/s and blood tests are the best bet for diagnosing anything when it's nerve damage, but a scan can show an initial trigger - i.e. disc problems.

Ok , that's useful to know, find I have to drive the bus on my own, doctors are so lacking in curiosity, that or too lazy to investigate further

Mam of 4 · 25-02-2019 12:18am

Vela wrote: »

Have you found codeine very effective for nerve pain? It doesn't touch mine:( Been prescribed Oxy in the past too but it made me really sick - puking rings around myself. I take Kapake (like Tylex) for migraines the odd time and even that makes me nauseous. I don't understand the "buzz" people say they get from them at all.

Am just wondering if you have a sensitivity to codeine that makes you nauseous/vomit ?
I can't take anything with codeine in it for the same reason , I get dizzy and vomit if I do .

Vela · 25-02-2019 1:27am

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Ok , that's useful to know, find I have to drive the bus on my own, doctors are so lacking in curiosity, that or too lazy to investigate further

I hear you. If you're not happy with your dr, I'd suggest going to a different one and getting a second opinion. You're right about having to drive the bus, and you'll always have to do that because no-one will care about your pain more than you. But that also means it's up to you to keep pushing and be proactive until you get the help you need.

Vela · 25-02-2019 1:28am

Mam of 4 wrote: »

Am just wondering if you have a sensitivity to codeine that makes you nauseous/vomit ?
I can't take anything with codeine in it for the same reason , I get dizzy and vomit if I do .

Yep!

If nurofen plus (codeine) can be sold otc, why not other drugs?

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