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After Hours>Frugality and Irish Society
dxhound2005 21:48 11-02-2019 (1 Thanks)
Anyone who condemns frivolous spending would do well to have a think on how their sector of the economy would fare if it stopped. If people only bought small cars, only drove them when necessary, and held on to them for 15 years, that would result in a lot of redundancies in the motor and allied trades. Only replacing clothes when they wear out. Not a good idea for the rag trade.

And a hundred more example which I'm sure people could come up with. If people can afford it (and only if they can afford it) in general it must be good for the economy. Maybe neighbours could share one copy of the IT as a move towards frugality. Una would no doubt approve.
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NIMAN 21:48 11-02-2019 (5 Thanks)
There are 2 extremes in Ireland.

Those who spend like there is no tomorrow and then blame everyone else for them having no money.

And those who won't spend a cent more than they have to.

I like to think I'm sitting in the middle somehow!

Wasn't there stories during the recession about how Irish were quickly paying down debt and increasing savings?

That sound frugal to me.
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Franz Von Peppercorn 21:49 11-02-2019 (11 Thanks)
Originally Posted by A Tyrant Named Miltiades!:
But, what if the post-colonial hangover is a recurring need to signal personal wealth?
It isn’t. Ireland is no more ostentatious than most other countries and less than most. Think Russia. Or the US. Or brash Australia. Of the rich Greeks. Or Italians. Or South Americans. Or the Indian and Chinese billionaires. Or the Arabs or Dubai. Or crazy rich Asians. Or the only way is Essex. Did the rich households of the English aristocracy build themselves? Is Versailles a cottage? Is Monaco under stated?

Nonsense. Maybe the Norwegians and some other Nordic countries are less ostentatious.

This isn’t to say that there are rich and brash Irish people but there are rich and quiet living Irish people too. And most people don’t over spend either - we have a fairly high savings rate.
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odyssey06 21:52 11-02-2019
Is it only the non wasp americans that are brash with money?
But then The Donald comes from scotch german protestant stock...

The Brits had their yuppie phase in the 80s. We had the celtic tiger.
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Franz Von Peppercorn 21:53 11-02-2019 (6 Thanks)
Originally Posted by Mad_maxx:
Brits are very tight with money by comparison to us as are kiwis, another protestant country
No they aren’t. Have you ever lived in rich parts of the U.K.?

Originally Posted by :
It's irrelevant that the UK or New Zealand or Germany etc are secular, there cultures are influenced historically by protestant values
The whole Protestant values thing is a pile of contradictory mush believed by quarter wits.

Germany is fairly frugal though but that’s probably for a different reason. I noticed you wisely stayed away from saying that the US and Australia are frugal
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A Tyrant Named Miltiades! 21:58 11-02-2019 (6 Thanks)
Originally Posted by dxhound2005:
Anyone who condemns frivolous spending would do well to have a think on how their sector of the economy would fare if it stopped. If people only bought small cars, only drove them when necessary, and held on to them for 15 years, that would result in a lot of redundancies in the motor and allied trades.
one important thing that was hammered into me as undergrads, is that ideology respects no equilibrium.

People don't trade in consumer purchases? Fine, then those transactions are diverted to savings, which themselves are recycled as expenditure. Even within Western Europe, economies chug along the same lines, based on totally different fundamentals.

I think it's possible for us in Ireland to become more frugal without compromising our economic success - by saving more, by combating wage inflation in key industries, expanding our trade surplus, and by undertaking anti-cyclical policy measures.

I'm not saying this in response to you personally, but I also think that the principles of economics should perhaps be taught at an early stage within the education system.
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Spleerbun 22:04 11-02-2019 (3 Thanks)
Originally Posted by Franz Von Peppercorn:
No they aren’t. Have you ever lived in rich parts of the U.K.?
Have to agree with Mad Maxx, at least from personal experience. You ever been on holidays with, or in and around, British people? They wouldn't spend Christmas, might go out to dinner 1 night on the whole trip, every other night stay at home with a BBQ! Also if those auction TV shows that do be on every day are anything to go by, they are generally just very stingy, you'd wonder why they turn up at all
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riffmongous 22:05 11-02-2019 (1 Thanks)
Originally Posted by Mad_maxx:
Brits are very tight with money by comparison to us as are kiwis, another protestant country

It's irrelevant that the UK or New Zealand or Germany etc are secular, there cultures are influenced historically by protestant values
Many of the richest parts of germany are Catholic..
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Mad_maxx 22:05 11-02-2019 (5 Thanks)
Originally Posted by Franz Von Peppercorn:
No they aren’t. Have you ever lived in rich parts of the U.K.?



The whole Protestant values thing is a pile of contradictory mush believed by quarter wits.

Germany is fairly frugal though but that’s probably for a different reason. I noticed you wisely stayed away from saying that the US and Australia are frugal
In my experience the British shop around for value more, especially when it comes to service providers, much lower tolerance for rip off merchants, its why the North East of Ireland and donegal are much cheaper for everything, pressure from Northern Ireland

Kerry is about 40 % more expensive for a holiday than donegal
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Franz Von Peppercorn 22:07 11-02-2019
Originally Posted by A Tyrant Named Miltiades!:
one important thing that was hammered into me as undergrads, is that ideology respects no equilibrium.

People don't trade in consumer purchases? Fine, then those transactions are diverted to savings, which themselves are recycled as expenditure. Even within Western Europe, economies chug along the same lines, based on totally different fundamentals.
That’s not true at all. Savings don’t flow through the economy, only loans add new money, and more transactions obviously mean more economic activity.

Originally Posted by :
I think it's possible for us in Ireland to become more frugal without compromising our economic success - by saving more, by combating wage inflation in key industries, expanding our trade surplus, and by undertaking anti-cyclical policy measures.
We haven’t proven that Ireland isn’t frugal yet. Savings are high. Reducing wage inflation (except in government) doesn’t seem like a good strategy in a country where wages are not in fact inflating much at all. Wage inflation is what Europe needs.

Originally Posted by :
I'm not saying this in response to you personally, but I also think that the principles of economics should perhaps be taught at an early stage within the education system.
That’s the last thing we want to do as much of economics at Econ 101 level is wrong.
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dxhound2005 22:07 11-02-2019 (3 Thanks)
When I was younger the orthodoxy was that if inflation could be brought under control, everything would be good. It was a time of high inflation, over 15% by times as I recall. Along with that the other great ideal was to do away with the massive spending being taken up by the Cold War.

Inflation is gone and the Cold War is gone, but there are still problems. If frugality serves some purpose in a persons life, then go for it. But if it is only to make them feel better about the world, I don't see the point.
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Mad_maxx 22:09 11-02-2019 (1 Thanks)
Originally Posted by riffmongous:
Many of the richest parts of germany are Catholic..
Holland and Germany are both 50-50 Catholic protestant but both nations are clearly culturally protestant, as is Switzerland
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Franz Von Peppercorn 22:10 11-02-2019 (1 Thanks)
Originally Posted by Spleerbun:
Have to agree with Mad Maxx, at least from personal experience. You ever been on holidays with, or in and around, British people? They wouldn't spend Christmas, might go out to dinner 1 night on the whole trip, every other night stay at home with a BBQ! Also if those auction TV shows that do be on every day are anything to go by, they are generally just very stingy, you'd wonder why they turn up at all
I’ve lived with English people in England. They’re quite happy flaunting wealth.
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Franz Von Peppercorn 22:11 11-02-2019 (3 Thanks)
Originally Posted by Mad_maxx:
Holland and Germany are both 50-50 Catholic protestant but both nations are clearly culturally protestant, as is Switzerland
The 19C called and wants its theories back.
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odyssey06 22:12 11-02-2019 (3 Thanks)
Originally Posted by Franz Von Peppercorn:
I’ve lived with English people in England. They’re quite happy flaunting wealth.
They must be second generation of Irish immigrants.

The irish times has spoken.
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