Hyundai Ioniq 28kWh

KCross wrote:

You made @unkel spit into his tea with that €20k OTR price!

Into my wine. On holiday in France. But yes, I almost did

That GBP20k Ioniq on auto trader in the UK not tempt anyone? Could be landed for a bit over EUR23k. By far the cheapest Ioniq in the UK or here.

unkel wrote: »

Indeed. Two sizes bigger. Far more power, far better specced, a lot faster both in top speed and acceleration, so you'd think the Fiesta type EV would be about half the price of the Mondeo type EV? Eh no its actually more expensive.

Range of the Zoe is about the same as Ioniq on a very cold day, about 25% better on a perfect day...

I think the key issue for early arrivers on the scene is price point versus value, Both Renault and Nissan , benefitted by being the only car in the class,

As that changes , competition will lower prices

The Model 3 will also in effect set an upper cap

interesting times ahead , The idea that a car company can get significantly more for a bigger battery is going to be severely tested.

Range in a Zoe does not fall 25% in winter

Water John wrote: »

Putting in a bigger battery is not a big deal unless you have to alter systems eg cooling. It's nearer to putting a bigger fuel tank on an ICE than fitting a larger engine and turbo.

What should the differential be? Any rough est?
What diff was their on the Renault between leasing and buyout?

at present the battery is a serious major cost in the car, hence as you expand it and add more cells, its gets progressively more costly
, this is precisely why the next Gen leaf is being launched with a 40 kWh battery when Nissan can actually fit a 60 kWh one

( remember this is AFTER subsidies here )

until we see major economies of battery manufacture and an end to the shortages of supply, Li batteries will only come down slowly in price

Water John wrote: »

Figures, I'm sort of looking for, Boat.
I know the batteries are a key cost. It's the differential I'm try to get a feel of.
What effect had going from 24 to 30 have on the price of the Leaf?

cant give you that as the costs are fairly obscure

I do know at present Li capacity costs are fairly linear, i.e. 1.5 times capacity results in a 1,5x costs increase. There are some " sweet spots "

Also higher densities can mean heat distribution issues, more complicated packaging and sometimes different engineering

the 30 kwh Leaf was offered at a 2000 euros uplift from the 24kWh , if that was any indicator, but I suspect , it might have been a loss leader

prorated , a 60 kwh Leaf, would add 10K to the price, completely trashing its price point

BoatMad wrote:

Range in a Zoe does not fall 25% in winter

Oh yes it does. Check out Nyland test. Range of the Zoe 41kWh was about the same as Ioniq 28kWh in Norway winter test. Which is just ridiculous given the Zoe is more expensive to buy.

Deleted User wrote: »

Nissan's deal with LG Chem failed so this is the reason for the 40 Kwh, LG will not be making any battery for Nissan. And Nissan can't make enough batteries to get costs down. It's possible LG can't meet demand.

Remember the Bolt 60 Kwh ? it's 35 K isn because LG Chem can make a lot more cells than AESC.

What I don't know is if now Nissan will still sell their share to AESC.

My point remains, irrespective of source, Nissan cant introduce a 60 kWh Leaf at this point in the battery price curve because it moves the Leafs price point too far upwards ( as the Zoe will find out )

Hence they are hoping that battery costs will drop over the lifetime of the car to enable a 60 kWh option to be offered

Hyundai are on the same track , but the form factor of the current Ioniq is rumoured to be a big issue

Clementine Bald Metronome wrote:

I don't believe it lol. But either way, nothing to worry about in an Irish climate.

You don't believe what Nyland posted. Seriously?

Fair enough. Over here range would probably be between 20km and 60km more than Ioniq. Given the size and spec of the Zoe it should be about a EUR20k car so at the very most. The EUR27k list price is insane. Nice looking car though!

BoatMad wrote: »

Hence they are hoping that battery costs will drop over the lifetime of the car to enable a 60 kWh option to be offered.

Do you think they would offer an upgrade like Renault are doing?

In other words would people who buy the 40kwh car next year be able to upgrade to a 60kwh a few years down the line?

Wishful thinking...

Guys,

I just got email from the dealer that they have processed the SEAI grant and gave me the application number and dealer code.

Asked me to apply for the charger point - where do I do this and by your experience, how long should this take?

Thanks,

BoatMad wrote: »

yeah , I dont think theres a whole lot off future in upgradeable ( as opposed to replaceable ) batteries , rather like Apple and Samsung etc

Hopefully, aftermarket providers will emerge. There's a lot more money involved by comparison with upgrading or refurbishing a mobile phone battery.

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't really care to be honest. it's irrelevant in an Irish climate.

It's the opposite of irrelevant, it shows the limits of the cars and how they perform in extreme circumstances (distance, temperature extremes, many many FCP in a row etc).

I'd say I've watched every review he has put up, at least 5 times.

unkel wrote: »

Fair enough. Over here range would probably be between 20km and 60km more than Ioniq. Given the size and spec of the Zoe it should be about a EUR20k car so at the very most. The EUR27k list price is insane. Nice looking car though!

Totally agree €27k is insane. It's fairly basic spec inside, nothing special in terms of toys. I genuinely don't know why anyone would buy one over an Ioniq right now at €27k anyway.

From what I've seen on one of the FB groups a guy did Dublin - Cork non-stop (250km with 10% left). He averaged 73km/h over the whole trip - So it took roughly 3hr 25mins. Now I've done the same journey in the Ioniq in 3hr 10mins and that included a 35min stop at the FCP - So 15 mins faster and I got to have a coffee/bathroom break. So as expected you'll only really ever see the extra range around town or on slower sub-urban/rural trips when you're not too far from home or doing big mileage anyway.

They might sell a few over the next few months but I reckon these Zoe 40's will eventually be as scarce as the first gen models once the Leaf 2 comes on the scene. Provided the Leaf 2 is around the €30k mark then no one in their right mind should buy a €27k Zoe over a Leaf 2 or Ioniq. If they shave €5k off the Zoe then we'll see.