This week's EV bargain that I'm not buying

Calahonda52 · 17-02-2017 7:50pm

KCross wrote: »

Huh?

Brexit vote was 23 Jun 16. Sterling was at 76p then. Why do you say it hasnt fallen at all yet?

.

unkel · 17-02-2017 10:53pm

KCross wrote: »

Huh?

Brexit vote was 23 Jun 16. Sterling was at 76p then. Why do you say it hasnt fallen at all yet?

Apologies I was a bit hasty reading a graph. Sterling has fallen alright but only 10% since the day before brexit (77p vs 85p). That's hardly a huge change.

My point was that your starting point of the decline was in 2015 which has obviously nothing to do with brexit. Conveniently sterling was the highest in November '15 (the date you quote) that it had been in 8 years (since before the recession)

Gumbo · 18-02-2017 2:13am

Peoples opinion on this car?

https://www.donedeal.ie/view/14621302
NISSAN LEAF 6.6 kw Tekna

Guys, how do you arm yourself for an EV purchase, especially a private sale.
I don't. We'd a talk on buying cars as I've bought and sold more cars than I've had hot dinners, but never an EV

This one jusmped put at me considering 6.6 version, price, 3 charge cables included, I assume it's the home charger (32 amp) then the granny and public cables?

Thanks.

unkel · 18-02-2017 2:23am

kceire wrote: »

Peoples opinion on this car?

12k for a '13 24kWh when you can import a 30kWh '16 for £14k plus a few hundred getting the car over?

My money would be on the latter. There are 3 entry points of very best value for money in EV at the moment imho:

1. very first gen '11 Leaf, probably with a slightly compromised battery, already on Irish reg, for bottom dollars - say €6k-€7k
2. import '16 Leaf with 30kWh battery for about €16k landed
3. buy brand new Ioniq for €24k

Gumbo · 18-02-2017 9:21am

unkel wrote: »

12k for a '13 24kWh when you can import a 30kWh '16 for £14k plus a few hundred getting the car over?

My money would be on the latter. There are 3 entry points of very best value for money in EV at the moment imho:

1. very first gen '11 Leaf, probably with a slightly compromised battery, already on Irish reg, for bottom dollars - say €6k-€7k
2. import '16 Leaf with 30kWh battery for about €16k landed
3. buy brand new Ioniq for €24k

Cheers. Budget at present wouldn't stretch to 16k.
I want the 2nd Gen SVE due to better battery, heat pump and spec tbh

hargo · 18-02-2017 2:16pm

unkel wrote: »

12k for a '13 24kWh when you can import a 30kWh '16 for £14k plus a few hundred getting the car over?

My money would be on the latter. There are 3 entry points of very best value for money in EV at the moment imho:

1. very first gen '11 Leaf, probably with a slightly compromised battery, already on Irish reg, for bottom dollars - say €6k-€7k
2. import '16 Leaf with 30kWh battery for about €16k landed
3. buy brand new Ioniq for €24k

Brand new Ioniq for €24k, I was quoted €26,595 with scrappage?

Calahonda52 · 18-02-2017 2:24pm

unkel wrote: »

12k for a '13 24kWh when you can import a 30kWh '16 for £14k plus a few hundred getting the car over?

My money would be on the latter. There are 3 entry points of very best value for money in EV at the moment imho:

1. very first gen '11 Leaf, probably with a slightly compromised battery, already on Irish reg, for bottom dollars - say €6k-€7k
2. import '16 Leaf with 30kWh battery for about €16k landed
3. buy brand new Ioniq for €24k

As I look on the Uk sites now, Sat 18th Feb, I don't see how €16k landed is available for '16/30Kwh.
Likewise re €24 for new Ioniq.

KCross · 18-02-2017 3:18pm

Calahonda52 wrote: »

As I look on the Uk sites now, Sat 18th Feb, I don't see how €16k landed is available for '16/30Kwh.
Likewise re €24 for new Ioniq.

£14k should be do-able. Add flight and ferry and you will be at around €17k

Ioniq is 28495 and subtract scrappage you are at 24495 plus maybe delivery so around €25k?

unkel · 18-02-2017 10:11pm

kceire wrote: »

Cheers. Budget at present wouldn't stretch to 16k.
I want the 2nd Gen SVE due to better battery, heat pump and spec tbh

I understand, but it will depreciate quite a bit in the next few years.

I suppose you could bring over and show him €10.5k cash. See what he thinks

Gumbo · 19-02-2017 12:47am

unkel wrote: »

I understand, but it will depreciate quite a bit in the next few years.

I suppose you could bring over and show him €10.5k cash. See what he thinks

Deffo an option.
I'm building this year so have to be restrained in the car purchase. It's either a Leaf or I stick with another jeep, E53 X5 or W164 ML!

The owner is buying a 30kw version as I spoke to him today.

Calahonda52 · 19-02-2017 11:29am

kceire wrote: »

Peoples opinion on this car?

https://www.donedeal.ie/view/14621302
NISSAN LEAF 6.6 kw Tekna

Guys, how do you arm yourself for an EV purchase, especially a private sale.
I don't. We'd a talk on buying cars as I've bought and sold more cars than I've had hot dinners, but never an EV

This one jusmped put at me considering 6.6 version, price, 3 charge cables included, I assume it's the home charger (32 amp) then the granny and public cables?

Thanks.

My guess wall charger is untethered.
High mileage, at 47km, half way into the 100k km warranty.
No mention of maintained service record which will invalidate the warranty

Gumbo · 19-02-2017 12:36pm

Calahonda52 wrote: »

My guess wall charger is untethered.
High mileage, at 47km, half way into the 100k km warranty.
No mention of maintained service record which will invalidate the warranty

Wall charger - he is passing on the new unit that will come with his 30kw car.
I would have thought 47k km was Louise mileage for a 4 year old car, but my 02 jeep has 220k I'm on her and I only do about 10k km per year.

He said over the phone that all the Nissan service etc were done so I'm hoping it's just an oversight on the ad.

I'm in 2 minds tbh, I'd have to move quick for this particular one as he's buying another and has been offered a trade in price.

Calahonda52 · 19-02-2017 12:44pm

kceire wrote: »

1: Wall charger - he is passing on the new unit that will come with his 30kw car.
2: I would have thought 47k km was Louise mileage for a 4 year old car, but my 02 jeep has 220k I'm on her and I only do about 10k km per year.

3: He said over the phone that all the Nissan service etc were done so I'm hoping it's just an oversight on the ad.

I'm in 2 minds tbh, I'd have to move quick for this particular one as he's buying another and has been offered a trade in price.

1: don't follow: if he is buying new the free install is a 16kW wall charger.
My point was you said 3 cables, I was wondering if the charger was untethered, if so two cables only
2:low on an ice but the Nissan W is 8 years 100,000 km

3: Caveat emptor:D

Good luck.

Gumbo · 19-02-2017 1:22pm

Calahonda52 wrote: »

1: don't follow: if he is buying new the free install is a 16kW wall charger.
My point was you said 3 cables, I was wondering if the charger was untethered, if so two cables only
2:low on an ice but the Nissan W is 8 years 100,000 km

3: Caveat emptor:D

Good luck.

1. Agree. Ad says 3 cables but there's a bit of wriggle room there if you don't take the wall mount from him. For buying purposes, assume the 2 I suppose. I have a bit of reading up to do on this whole tethered/untethered business

2. Fair point. But I believe Nissan will not entertain a battery claim unless the battery bars drop to 8 within the warranty period?

3. Deffo. I've bought enough and sold enough over the years so well clued up on this end of the market

Calahonda52 · 19-02-2017 1:28pm

kceire wrote: »

1. Agree. Ad says 3 cables but there's a bit of wriggle room there if you don't take the wall mount from him. For buying purposes, assume the 2 I suppose. I have a bit of reading up to do on this whole tethered/untethered business

2. Fair point. But I believe Nissan will not entertain a battery claim unless the battery bars drop to 8 within the warranty period?

3. Deffo. I've bought enough and sold enough over the years so well clued up on this end of the market

1: 32 A charger, cable for public charger and granny cable...= 2 IMO
https://evonestop.co.uk/customise-your-product/
for T vs Un-T

2: don't know but would not like to start half way there:D

3: self-bought my last car in '83...:)

Calahonda52 · 19-02-2017 1:48pm

Am waiting for dealer to call me back but the battery lease was buried in the small print, only spotted it now.

Thanks

slave1 · 19-02-2017 1:53pm

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Am waiting for dealer to call me back but the battery lease was buried in the small print, only spotted it now.

Thanks

That be a no-no, simple answer, sure more knoweldgable to follow, why would the lease company let you take the car out of the country.
No no no

Calahonda52 · 19-02-2017 1:59pm

slave1 wrote: »

That be a no-no, simple answer, sure more knoweldgable to follow, why would the lease company let you take the car out of the country.
No no no

Thanks
Its a cash sale for the car with battery lease so just asking:D

Gumbo · 19-02-2017 4:28pm

Calahonda52 wrote: »

1: 32 A charger, cable for public charger and granny cable...= 2 IMO
https://evonestop.co.uk/customise-your-product/
for T vs Un-T

2: don't know but would not like to start half way there:D

3: self-bought my last car in '83...:)

I'll research the cables. The home charger will be no use to me until I do my build from the other forum

anyway so I can get a 32A I still are then.

This car currently has a full 12 bars as seen in one of the pics and being a 24kw version I assume a 5 year warranty so that's up next year anyway.

Gumbo · 19-02-2017 4:29pm

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Am waiting for dealer to call me back but the battery lease was buried in the small print, only spotted it now.

Thanks

Watched a U.K. you tube video warning people not to buy any car with battery on flex as it's £80 per month for life!

isnottheword · 19-02-2017 6:25pm

kceire wrote: »

Watched a U.K. you tube video warning people not to buy any car with. Artery on flex as it's £80 per month for life!

There was a certain sense to battery rental a couple of years back - when the integrity/durability of EV batteries was in doubt. However, now that we have determined a certain level of confidence in battery tech, rental is a very bad model and should be done away with.

There are Fluence's selling for next to nothing because of Renaults stubbornness in terms of rental. Battery rental makes less and less sense as the car ages and it sheds value. The Fluence may not have been a success and it may have very limited range and charging ability but there are plenty out there that it would suit - but only with outright purchase.

I use this as an example - as this will become an issue with all battery rental cars as they age - be that the Zoe or the Leaf, etc. Surely they have to draw a halt to it at some stage?

samih · 20-02-2017 1:36pm

Just note about the battery warranty. 100k is plenty on the Leaf 1.5 as the only way the battery on those will degrade to less than 70 percent is if there is a total loss of some cells within the pack due to a manufacturing defect and 100k is plenty of time to catch it.

It seems that if you baby the battery by charging regularly to 80 percent or by not using the car enough, the capacity will be temporarily lost but once you give it a proper long run with multiple fast (rapid) charges the batteries on 141+ reg cars will be restored back to nearly new percentage. Once you have done 5000-8000 charges (which will mean that a car with a range of 100 km per charge could have traveled up to 500000 km) some weaker battery modules may begin to appear but even in that stage (and this may not actually even happen) the capacity of the battery will still be in 80's. At thattime it will be the best to let a third party company to identify and replace the weak modules and restore the capacity back to the 90's.

So in case of the white leaf in question the remaining 53k/2 years will be plenty of time to discover a manufacturing error.

samih · 20-02-2017 1:43pm

kceire wrote: »

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Am waiting for dealer to call me back but the battery lease was buried in the small print, only spotted it now.

Thanks

Watched a U.K. you tube video warning people not to buy any car with battery on flex as it's £80 per month for life!

Since last year, in case of Nissan, it has been possible to buy out the rented battery for the fraction of the new battery cost. When exporting from UK this will need to be completed anyway. A typical cost seem to be around £2/3000.

20-02-2017 1:55pm

The battery capacity is never lost, the BMS sometimes doesn't know , possibly due to little usage, how much % is in the car and I think is just guessing based on total pack voltage and internal resistance which people believe is shown as HX on Leafspy.

When a full, or close to 100-0 and back to 100% ( with no end timer set to fully balance the cells ) charge is done it can get a much better idea based on the lowest and highest voltage.

It's hard to know what nissan changed for the current gen 24 Kwh battery, it's probably a combination of things,

Better cycle life, better heat resistance and the rate of current it can charge and discharge called the "C" rate these alone can have a dramatic effect on battery life. And not leaving it fully charged all day every day helps reduce stress on the battery.

Looking at the battery report from Nissan they monitor user usage such as the amount of fast charging, time spent at a high charge and the amount of times the car is charged above 80% along with aggressive driving and braking.

The more capacity the battery has will also mean a lot less stress on it so you should always go for the largest battery you can afford which will also help detach yourself from the public charging network.

I would not say the average motorist in Ireland need to worry about fast charging a 24 Kwh current Gen Leaf but I would not charge a hot battery , one that's above 7 Temp bars regularly if possible.

slave1 · 20-02-2017 2:11pm

I followed up with the garage on the £14k Acentas I mentioned in post #84, sold on Saturday, they had two for sale and both were Acenta +'s so had the 6.6kW charger.
Nice to track the prices....

Calahonda52 · 20-02-2017 2:24pm

slave1 wrote: »

I followed up with the garage on the £14k Acentas I mentioned in post #84, sold on Saturday, they had two for sale and both were Acenta +'s so had the 6.6kW charger.
Nice to track the prices....

Yep, the stuff is shifting okay, I was tracking a few also: all sold

isnottheword · 20-02-2017 6:11pm

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Yep, the stuff is shifting okay, I was tracking a few also: all sold

Either less ex-PCP cars being made available or demand is up - as I continue to keep an eye on Leaf sales in the UK - still nothing in the same price range as I paid back in July last year.

I wonder if there are certain periods of the year where better deals can be expected....or is it just that demand is up? I bought on the higher sterling rate - which you would expect would have resulted in subsequent purchases being more affordable - but not working out that way....

20-02-2017 10:24pm

Is a car like this http://www.usedcarsni.com/2013-Nissan-LEAF-E-80kw-Acenta-Flex-160005173 a good buy?

isnottheword · 20-02-2017 10:25pm

11214 wrote: »

Is a car like this http://www.usedcarsni.com/2013-Nissan-LEAF-E-80kw-Acenta-Flex-160005173 a good buy?

It's a Flex (Nissan speak for battery rental) - so no.

unkel · 20-02-2017 10:27pm

11214 wrote: »

Is a car like this http://www.usedcarsni.com/2013-Nissan-LEAF-E-80kw-Acenta-Flex-160005173 a good buy?

Nope. Flex means battery lease. The car would be bricked if you brought it over here!

This week's EV bargain that I'm not buying

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