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VW Neo (eGolf replacement)

24567…46

Comments

  • #32
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/volkswagen-id-hatch-stay-true-concept-says-design-boss

    Priced similar to diesel version sounds interesting

    VW could be into a real winner here


  • #33
    Royale with Cheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,972 ✭✭✭Royale with Cheese


    Can you not get it with something approaching a normal set of alloys? I don't care if it adds a few percent to the battery life, they look ridiculous.


  • #34
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Royale with Cheese wrote: »
    Can you not get it with something approaching a normal set of alloys? I don't care if it adds a few percent to the battery life, they look ridiculous.

    I would doubt they will make production

    The current alloys on the eGolf will probably be used


  • #35
    Royale with Cheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,972 ✭✭✭Royale with Cheese


    The eGolf alloys... possibly even worse. Does anyone know how much more efficient those filled in style alloys you see on EVs are? I would happily swap them out for something more traditional if it didn't make a huge difference to the range.


  • #36
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,702 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    It all adds a little bit. The wheels, the eco tyre, aerodynamics, regenerative braking, efficient heatpump heating and indeed pre-heating, LED lighting, etc. People have to realise that a current generation EV only has about 10% of the energy on board compared to a similar ICE car. So efficiency can be quite important to make the range as much more than 10% of the range of an ICE as possible :)

    Personally, I'll change the Michelin ECO tyres on my EV to ones that provide more grip, particularly in the wet, next time. At the expense of less range.


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  • #37
    Royale with Cheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,972 ✭✭✭Royale with Cheese


    Anything under 10% of the range affected and I think I'd be happy to swap them out. A nice set of alloys is probably the thing I value most in the aesthetics of a car, the difference they can make is huge.

    Actually Teslas have normal/nice looking alloys. They even give you a range of sizes on the model S. It can't make that much difference?


  • #38
    redlead
    Registered Users Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭redlead


    unkel wrote: »

    Personally, I'll change the Michelin ECO tyres on my EV to ones that provide more grip, particularly in the wet, next time. At the expense of less range.

    Is the difference very noticeable?


  • #39
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Royale with Cheese wrote: »
    The eGolf alloys... possibly even worse. Does anyone know how much more efficient those filled in style alloys you see on EVs are? I would happily swap them out for something more traditional if it didn't make a huge difference to the range.

    A lot of people in the US have swapped the alloys for more "standard" ones

    I actually like the cheese grator as they are commonly known

    Make the car look distinctive

    No idea on range, I can ask


  • #40
    DaveyDave
    Registered Users Posts: 6,179 ✭✭✭DaveyDave


    I think the biggest problem I have with the alloys on the eGolf is the size. 16" is too small. I know they're that size for a reason but I'm sure the sacrifice would be worth it to go 17". I think the size would show off the design a bit better too.

    I think small alloys have a paddy spec look to them. A neighbor had a 172 Highline and now has a 181 Comfortline and the 16" just don't look right. Too much rubber.

    Could also be a comfort thing, I presume the extra weight would need higher tyre pressure?


  • #41
    redlead
    Registered Users Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭redlead


    DaveyDave wrote: »
    I think the biggest problem I have with the alloys on the eGolf is the size. 16" is too small. I know they're that size for a reason but I'm sure the sacrifice would be worth it to go 17". I think the size would show off the design a bit better too.

    I think small alloys have a paddy spec look to them. A neighbor had a 172 Highline and now has a 181 Comfortline and the 16" just don't look right. Too much rubber.

    To be fair, 16s are more than big enough on a small car like a golf. I have 16s on a Passat and they look fine. I have 19s on a 3008 which I think are needed because it's an SUV. 18s would be fine too. Depends on the type of car

    I think the bigger the wheel the less economical and harder the ride in general? Could be wrong... I never notice any difference to be honest


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  • #42
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    redlead wrote: »
    To be fair, 16s are more than big enough on a small car like a golf. I have 16s on a Passat and they look fine. I have 19s on a 3008 which I think are needed because it's an SUV. 18s would be fine too. Depends on the type of car

    I think the bigger the wheel the less economical and harder the ride in general? Could be wrong... I never notice any difference to be honest

    Bigger alloys mean they are less energy efficient....that is what I was told anyway


  • #43
    DaveyDave
    Registered Users Posts: 6,179 ✭✭✭DaveyDave


    The extra weight of the wheels is rotational weight so it's more of an effect than putting the same weight in the boot. The 17" wheels on my Golf add .1L/100km and a small co2 increase.


  • #44
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,068 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Not a whole lot more detail but worth reading anyway....
    https://electrek.co/2018/09/24/vw-neo-electric-car-battery-configurations-price-report/


    Snippets....
    3 different battery sizes with entry level WLTP range of 330km and mid-range model at 450km!

    7kW and 11kW (3 phase) AC charging. The 11kW probably wont be for Ireland though, imo.

    Upto 125kW DC charging. Will be interesting to see what the charge profile is.

    reveal at the end of 2019. Will they deliver RHD for 201 or will they sort LHD first and it will be 202 before we see it here?

    I'm still skeptical of the $30k price though. I cant see that happening based on the prices of the current EV's on the market. I suppse they also have Paddy spec to bring the price down! :)


  • #45
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    KCross wrote: »
    Not a whole lot more detail but worth reading anyway....
    https://electrek.co/2018/09/24/vw-neo-electric-car-battery-configurations-price-report/


    Snippets....
    3 different battery sizes with entry level WLTP range of 330km and mid-range model at 450km!

    7kW and 11kW (3 phase) AC charging. The 11kW probably wont be for Ireland though, imo.

    Upto 125kW DC charging. Will be interesting to see what the charge profile is.

    reveal at the end of 2019. Will they deliver RHD for 201 or will they sort LHD first and it will be 202 before we see it here?

    I'm still skeptical of the $30k price though. I cant see that happening based on the prices of the current EV's on the market. I suppse they also have Paddy spec to bring the price down! :)


    Oh yee of little faith....


    This is very interesting read
    https://insideevs.com/insideevs-vw-gets-electric-car-scoop/


    2025 have 50 different electric cars available, don't see any other manufacturing even coming close to that



    Already changed a factory from combustion engine to electric. So know how long it takes and how to do it...


    Impressive


  • #46
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,702 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Still a long time away :(
    KCross wrote: »
    3 different battery sizes with entry level WLTP range of 330km and mid-range model at 450km!

    That's quite interesting. It suggests about 45kWh for the base model and 60kWh for the mid-range. Long range then perhaps 75kWh?

    If we still have the €5k subsidy and zero VRT (for budget cars) when the car comes (big if!), the $30k for the base model should translate to no more than about €28-29k


  • #47
    samih
    Registered Users Posts: 2,795 ✭✭✭samih


    I find it most most interesting that VW says the Neo will 30 percent less expensive to make than the e-Golf which sounds promising. The car will first debut with (Korean) NCM 622 cells from Samsung before changing to LG NCM 811 from the Polish factory.


  • #48
    Brera
    Registered Users Posts: 167 ✭✭Brera


    samih wrote: »
    I find it most most interesting that VW says the Neo will 30 percent less expensive to make than the e-Golf which sounds promising. The car will first debut with (Korean) NCM 622 cells from Samsung before changing to LG NCM 811 from the Polish factory.



    I’m guessing that will be the benefit of having a whole new EV platform. VW have been saving money for years through its use of shared platforms

    The e-golf struck me as a box ticking exercise. It seems VW is making a serious move now.


  • #49
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    samih wrote: »
    I find it most most interesting that VW says the Neo will 30 percent less expensive to make than the e-Golf which sounds promising. The car will first debut with (Korean) NCM 622 cells from Samsung before changing to LG NCM 811 from the Polish factory.


    The eGolf was never designed to be electric so it was never going to be cost effective. They made a hell of a job of it but really it is a combustion engine car converted to electric car.



    The Nio is designed from ground up so they will be able to see better manufacturing procedures etc. It seems the eGolf is not that easy to manufacture, hence the low numbers....


    Also because this is designed for electric they can replicate it for many other cars, e.g. 50, and the cost per unit is driven down. But 1,000 of 1 part then price is X, buy 1 million of a part and price is Y


  • #50
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    More and more information coming out and it looks like VW are onto a winner

    http://elektroautovergleich.org/2018/09/elektroautos-von-volkswagen-ab-25000-e-soll-es-losgehen/

    In German but the main bits to note....using google translate

    the electric driving at Volkswagen from 2020 starting from 25000 €. But in turn, because Volkswagen calls its platform MEB and this works like a kit. All 11 Group brands can pick out the suitable electromobile components from this modular MEB kit, and then their own brand such as Skoda, Seat, etc. is glued to the car. So different brands share a platform and you can take advantage of huge mass production.

    The ID should cost as entry-level model only € 25,000, but then this entry-level model of the electric Golf has only a battery capacity of 48 kWh and a range of only 330 kilometers.

    With the entry-level brand of € 25,000 we finally achieve cost parity for the compact vehicles. Today, a roughly comparable diesel golf costs about € 29,000,     Please note these are German prices

    Based on the above, Leaf/Kona/Niro etc will all be overpriced compared to the ID range......


  • #51
    Brera
    Registered Users Posts: 167 ✭✭Brera


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    More and more information coming out and it looks like VW are onto a winner

    http://elektroautovergleich.org/2018/09/elektroautos-von-volkswagen-ab-25000-e-soll-es-losgehen/

    In German but the main bits to note....using google translate

    the electric driving at Volkswagen from 2020 starting from 25000 €. But in turn, because Volkswagen calls its platform MEB and this works like a kit. All 11 Group brands can pick out the suitable electromobile components from this modular MEB kit, and then their own brand such as Skoda, Seat, etc. is glued to the car. So different brands share a platform and you can take advantage of huge mass production.

    The ID should cost as entry-level model only € 25,000, but then this entry-level model of the electric Golf has only a battery capacity of 48 kWh and a range of only 330 kilometers.

    With the entry-level brand of € 25,000 we finally achieve cost parity for the compact vehicles. Today, a roughly comparable diesel golf costs about € 29,000,     Please note these are German prices

    Based on the above, Leaf/Kona/Niro etc will all be overpriced compared to the ID range......


    This is what will really be a “Tesla Killer”. VW build quality and a cost starting at €25,000

    The big question is do VW have enough battery capacity lined up to meet demand

    I also wonder what will the largest battery capacity be ?
    They have talked about a middle of the range capacity offering 450km I’m guessing that would be around 64 kWH similar to the Kona and Niro. So could the largest one be 80 kWH ?

    Off topic slight but I saw a piece the other day about the Mercedes EQB undergoing testing and the rumours are it will be available with a 100KW battery pack !!


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  • #52
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 32,951 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Sounds great at €25k, but it'll probably be more like €35k here.


  • #53
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,702 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Brera wrote: »
    I also wonder what will the largest battery capacity be ?
    They have talked about a middle of the range capacity offering 450km I’m guessing that would be around 64 kWH similar to the Kona and Niro. So could the largest one be 80 kWH ?

    See my guess up a few posts :p

    I reckon it might be 45 / 60 / 75kWh


  • #54
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    NIMAN wrote: »
    Sounds great at €25k, but it'll probably be more like €35k here.


    I doubt that. The Golf is priced the same in Germany as it is here.



    If the entry is 35k then what will midrange be? 40k and then long distance 50k?


    VW are not stupid, they know they will never sell at those prices.


  • #55
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,068 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    I doubt that. The Golf is priced the same in Germany as it is here.



    If the entry is 35k then what will midrange be? 40k and then long distance 50k?


    VW are not stupid, they know they will never sell at those prices.

    They sold the eGolf at stupid prices though?!

    Its not long ago you were saying VW wouldnt cheapen their brand by coming down to Nissan prices.... you have consistently tagged VW as a premium brand but now you think they will deliver an "eGolf" for €25k! Thats cheaper than a Leaf!

    You have changed your tune! :)


  • #56
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,068 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    I'll just leave this here... :)
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=106817328&postcount=19


  • #57
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    KCross wrote: »
    I'll just leave this here... :)
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=106817328&postcount=19


    April is a long time ago in the World of Electric cars I think we can all agree :-)



    Yes and it was true at that stage as everyone expected the Neo would be a single option with 60Kwh+ battery in it.....you could pull me up on saying everyone but it was my belief based on the information aavailable


    Since then VW have provided more information and I think the 3 battery types is a huge difference.....


  • #58
    cros13
    Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭cros13


    The big issue is still battery supply. I suspect VW's raw material purchases are in part a blocking move to deny production volume to other market participants....
    But the fundamental battery problem still exists, where are the factories to make all these batteries?


  • #59
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    KCross wrote: »
    They sold the eGolf at stupid prices though?!

    Its not long ago you were saying VW wouldnt cheapen their brand by coming down to Nissan prices.... you have consistently tagged VW as a premium brand but now you think they will deliver an "eGolf" for €25k! Thats cheaper than a Leaf!

    You have changed your tune! :)


    I am happy to admit I have changed my tune. Not that VW are a premium brand mind you.



    If VW can manufacture 200-300k ID range cars then of course the price comes down and it is all the better for the market. If in 12 months time you can walk into VW and buy a Neo for 25k then happy days.....if in 24 months you can walk into Skoda/Seat and buy one for less then that really is a game changer and VW could rule the market by 2025 in electric cars. I don't see any other manufacturer with a plan of 50 cars by 2025.....


  • #60
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,068 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    April is a long time ago in the World of Electric cars I think we can all agree :-)



    Yes and it was true at that stage as everyone expected the Neo would be a single option with 60Kwh+ battery in it.....you could pull me up on saying everyone but it was my belief based on the information aavailable


    Since then VW have provided more information and I think the 3 battery types is a huge difference.....

    So you believe that the entry level Neo (40kWh+) will be cheaper than an entry level 40kWh Leaf(€28k)?!!!

    That would be a real game changer.

    However, imo, there is close to zero chance of that happening unless you think Nissan and Hyundai/Kia are going to slash their prices, which is unlikely.

    My guess is 3 battery sizes (usable) of 43kWh, 53kWh, 64kWh with prices around €32k, €36k, €40k respectively after grant.
    For the current eGolf they use a vaue of 12.7kWh/100km in their literature so you can take a stab at the battery sizes then based on the expected WLTP range of the Neo which VW have already revealed. Its still only a guess but it shouldnt be too far out

    The entry level should be slightly cheaper than the current eGolf (€36k) since they will have better economies of scale and a better designed product but you pay a premium for the battery upgrades... it's still good progress since they are saying 330km WLTP on the entry level model.


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  • #61
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,792 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    For all the talk of VW cheapening the brand, the entry level Pulsar and Golf are priced at the same level ...


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