VW Neo (eGolf replacement)

KCross · 03-10-2018 10:59am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

So you have 2 options, price high because you are the only option in market and hope the customer are willing to pay for this
Or price competitive and wipe the competition out, so by the time they get house in order you already rule the market

In the case of VW they are actually doing both. So Audi has released the premium SUV and will have a line of cars as well.

VW brand I can see now going after the mid tier. It's not the first time I have seen 25k mentioned. So you price at 25k and suddenly you have a huge influx of customer. How many will buy 25k car? maybe 1-2% because when they go to dealership you happen to have a 28k model in stock etc etc....you can have this for 28k now or you can wait 8-12 weeks for your order..

This is not a new tactic from VW. As they have a plant firing out cars you will have people who are happy to wait extra 8-12 weeks for special delivery but that is normally because they are buying the 32k car. They want leather seats or something.....the standard punter wil take the car in stock. I see it all over VW garages everyday of the week......

Also it is easy upsell, so your 25k car does exist but it doesnt come with carnet, why would you not want to preheat/precool your car? so you can include that(26k) etc etc etc.....

If I go back to my 2 options at the start, the noise from VW is they are trying to wipe the market before everyone else gets house in order.

ok, good point.... like the $35k Model 3!

Most people are paying closer to twice that!

So you predict an entry level, no frills Neo for €25k OTR in Ireland in 2020?

KCross · 03-10-2018 11:06am

eagerv wrote: »

Will the Neo be available with a 40kWh pack? Any info i have seen mentions 48kWh ?

Its all guesswork and you have to distinguish between the headline kWh figure and the usable capacity. Nissan use total capacity, most others quote usable capacity.
e.g. the Kona 64kWh is 64kWh usable. It actually has close to a 70kWh pack. The headline 40kWh Leaf is really only 36kWh usable. Just another thing to confuse punters!

VW have said a WLTP of 330km for entry level model Neo
The 40kWh Leaf is ~36kWh usable and has a WLTP of 285km

Extrapolate that (and allowing for the fact that the Leaf isnt that efficient) and it should put the Neo in the 40-43kWh usable range and then gross that up takes you closer to 48kWh total.... again, guesswork, but educated guesswork.

unkel · 03-10-2018 11:14am

KCross wrote: »

ok, good point.... like the $35k Model 3!
Most people are paying closer to twice that!

Not an entirely new concept. VW were always good at extracting high margin options after luring people in with cheap enough base level pricing. But BMW took it to new levels altogether in the early 00s with the MINI option packages that cost thousands. Each :eek: Plenty of customers ordered several of these packages. Cost to BMW was only a tiny fraction of cost to consumer. Similar to the Tesla Model 3 extras

Shefwedfan · 03-10-2018 11:55am

KCross wrote: »

ok, good point.... like the $35k Model 3!
Most people are paying closer to twice that!

So you predict an entry level, no frills Neo for €25k OTR in Ireland in 2020?

The $35k Model 3 which might never arrive

Did I say OTR? :P what about delivery

Will it be advertised as starting at 25k....yes 100%.....

KCross · 03-10-2018 12:17pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The $35k Model 3 which might never arrive

Did I say OTR? :P what about delivery

Will it be advertised as starting at 25k....yes 100%.....

ok, i'll get in line then!

I've seen a few reports now of it being priced at £22k and others saying it will be similar price to mid range Golf Tdi which would also put it at ~£23k (1.6TDi mid range).

Exchange rate, higher VAT, delivery charges and paddy pricing would put it around €28k maybe OTR for the no frills version?... right in line with the 40kWh Leaf... but it will be significantly better than the Leaf so it should wipe the board with it at that price.

€28k is also what a 5-door 1.6Tdi Golf mid-range model is currently priced at in Ireland so that would fit the narrative as well of it being priced like a mid range diesel Golf.

eagerv · 03-10-2018 12:58pm

Ok my updated price guess is €32k here in Ireland with reasonable spec for a 40kWh usable battery. I had been assuming the smallest pack was 48kWh usable.

Compares with what's being mentioned in UK press of similar to a well specced diesel golf at around £27500 Stg.

Shefwedfan · 03-10-2018 1:22pm

eagerv wrote: »

Ok my updated price guess is €32k here in Ireland with reasonable spec for a 40kWh usable battery. I had been assuming the smallest pack was 48kWh usable.

Compares with what's being mentioned in UK press of similar to a well specced diesel golf at around £27500 Stg.

Why are you using the price of a Golf in Uk as a reference?

eagerv · 03-10-2018 1:26pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Why are you using the price of a Golf in Uk as a reference?

Because that's what their press are quoting.

Shefwedfan · 03-10-2018 1:35pm

eagerv wrote: »

Because that's what their press are quoting.

The UK press :-)

Read any of the articles from Germany and the prices are in euro. The price of combustion engine Golf in Germany is the same price here

UK isn’t a great example, as they have to convert from Euro to UKP and guard against currency fluctuation

They manufacture in EU and euro is the currency of choice so for once we have upper hand to uk

eagerv · 03-10-2018 1:44pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The UK press :-)

Read any of the articles from Germany and the prices are in euro. The price of combustion engine Golf in Germany is the same price here

UK isn’t a great example, as they have to convert from Euro to UKP and guard against currency fluctuation

They manufacture in EU and euro is the currency of choice so for once we have upper hand to uk

Fair enough, we have so far very little to go on. I still cannot see VW undercutting a mid spec Leaf 40 next year.

unkel · 03-10-2018 2:09pm

eagerv wrote: »

Fair enough, we have so far very little to go on. I still cannot see VW undercutting a mid spec Leaf 40 next year.

Not next year. The Neo will be on Irish plates about 2 years after the L40. That's a long time.

Shefwedfan · 03-10-2018 2:10pm

eagerv wrote: »

Fair enough, we have so far very little to go on. I still cannot see VW undercutting a mid spec Leaf 40 next year.

Everything from Germany points to a €25k Neo

https://ecomento.de/2018/09/25/vw-kompakt-elektroauto-i-d-drei-versionen-reichweite-preis/

http://elektroautovergleich.org/2018/09/elektroautos-von-volkswagen-ab-25000-e-soll-es-losgehen/

US:
https://electrek.co/2018/09/24/vw-neo-electric-car-battery-configurations-price-report/

25k euro

This is using translate but you get the point:

Now Volkswagen is a bit more concrete, because according to the industry services, the electric driving at Volkswagen from 2020 starting from 25000 €. But in turn, because Volkswagen calls its platform MEB and this works like a kit. All 11 Group brands can pick out the suitable electromobile components from this modular MEB kit, and then their own brand such as Skoda, Seat, etc. is glued to the car. So different brands share a platform and you can take advantage of huge mass production. If one builds his electric drive just for one million vehicles, then the single drive becomes cheaper than if one equips only 220000 Gölfe.
Electric cars are cheaper with kits

All of these could be wrong of course, but they all have to be getting 25k from somewhere....if the Golf is priced the same in Germany as in Ireland then we have to expect the ID will have the same price

KCross · 03-10-2018 2:39pm

I looked at the first one you posted and they mentioned €29k!
Are you picking the figures that you like or the figures you think it will be!

The basic version of the ID is equipped with information from Auto Express with 48-kWh battery and the price of a well-equipped diesel Golf offered - that for around 29,000 euros

That's back to what has been quoted alot... VW trying to hit the price point of a mid-range diesel Golf.... €28k in Ireland.

And that would be for:

The entry-level version will have a 330-kilometer WLTP range and limited performance.

So, as you said before, the entry model will be something people wont necessarily want in large numbers. A bit like the Leaf XE. The "real" Neo will be the next one up (€30k+)?

unkel · 03-10-2018 4:29pm

KCross wrote: »

So, as you said before, the entry model will be something people wont necessarily want in large numbers.

Are you joking? Paddy loves his paddy spec base models. Preferably with a free solid colour too, why pay for metallic paint?

But jokes aside, I for one think people going for base models get far better value. A typical optional extra costs you €1000 for every €100 it costs the manufacturer. They see you coming from miles away, you optional box tickers. Fools and their money!

eagerv · 03-10-2018 4:33pm

I hope the basic one with smallest pack is coming in at €25k.

Would make the 64kWh or whatever perhaps almost affordable.
Rear wheel drive, decent HP and proper wheels..

samih · 03-10-2018 4:44pm

The Neo looks like a winner and shows what you can do with ground up new EV platform. The more completion the merrier and will force the other makers to get their backside on gear. Let's hope the VW have enough batteries available this time.

The specs make the Nissan look old hat and Hyundai/Kia overpriced and inelegant with their battery packs hanging from their backside front tyres struggling for grip, especially fully laden.

KCross · 03-10-2018 4:53pm

unkel wrote: »

Are you joking? Paddy loves his paddy spec base models. Preferably with a free solid colour too, why pay for metallic paint?

But jokes aside, I for one think people going for base models get far better value. A typical optional extra costs you €1000 for every €100 it costs the manufacturer. They see you coming from miles away, you optional box tickers. Fools and their money!

I know, alot of people take what the dealers have ready in stock and they get the paddy spec to keep the price down.

The outcry on the Kona thread suggests otherwise but I suppose the folks going for the Kona are not the typical punters.

Shefwedfan · 03-10-2018 6:00pm

KCross wrote: »

I know, alot of people take what the dealers have ready in stock and they get the paddy spec to keep the price down.

The outcry on the Kona thread suggests otherwise but I suppose the folks going for the Kona are not the typical punters.

Electric car drivers are spoilt brats :-) Only joking.....most electric car drivers are used to have loads of extras

Now your standard combustion engine driver thinks it is great to get dual control air con.....self parking is a something that will come in 2050

People will walk into VW dealer and buy the stock car because as you said the dealer will throw them a bit of a deal and they will walk out happy!!

The problem dealers have at the moment with electric car drivers is they know too much, they can't wait for the average Joe Soap to walk in without a bloody clue....then they can rip them off

Brera · 03-10-2018 11:00pm

eagerv wrote: »

I hope the basic one with smallest pack is coming in at €25k.

Would make the 64kWh or whatever perhaps almost affordable.
Rear wheel drive, decent HP and proper wheels..

And let’s not forget you’ll be getting the same interior space as in a Passat !

If they can offer it for €25K they won’t be able to build it fast enough.

I’m hoping the base battery will be in the 25-30K mark with the middle one around 35K, with it being around 40K for the largest battery pack.

Ordinary joe soaps will be worried about range so VW dealers will be able to make a lot more selling say an 80kwh battery for example at 40K to someone who really only needs the entry level battery pack

Shefwedfan · 06-10-2018 7:24am

https://pushevs.com/2018/10/04/more-info-about-volkswagen-electric-triplets/

Other options from VW

Maybe a 49kWh battery pack for Neo if that is one for the other cars?

Interesting is the electric Skoda SUV in 2020....will this be a cheap version of the VW Crozz to launch in Europe like the Crozz is in US?

Now that would be hugely interesting,.....I think I could even drive a Skoda in that case :-)

https://www.skoda-storyboard.com/en/innovation/skodas-electric-future/

Brera · 06-10-2018 4:07pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

https://pushevs.com/2018/10/04/more-info-about-volkswagen-electric-triplets/

Other options from VW

Maybe a 49kWh battery pack for Neo if that is one for the other cars?

Interesting is the electric Skoda SUV in 2020....will this be a cheap version of the VW Crozz to launch in Europe like the Crozz is in US?

Now that would be hugely interesting,.....I think I could even drive a Skoda in that case :-)

https://www.skoda-storyboard.com/en/innovation/skodas-electric-future/

I thinks it’s really exciting to see all the new models coming from the VAG group. The more EVs and the more choice for consumers the better.

It would appear that the group is going to benefit greatly from platform sharing.

When you combine that with the drop in battery cost from changes to chemistry and increased manufacturing they are really onto a winner.

Let’s see how the other manufactures respond next

denismc · 06-10-2018 6:09pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Electric car drivers are spoilt brats :-) Only joking.....most electric car drivers are used to have loads of extras

Now your standard combustion engine driver thinks it is great to get dual control air con.....self parking is a something that will come in 2050

People will walk into VW dealer and buy the stock car because as you said the dealer will throw them a bit of a deal and they will walk out happy!!

The problem dealers have at the moment with electric car drivers is they know too much, they can't wait for the average Joe Soap to walk in without a bloody clue....then they can rip them off

Interesting! When Skoda released the Karoq last year the lowest spec available was the Ambition which was traditionally the mid-level spec.
When I asked a salesman why this was, he replied that people have little interest in cars with basic spec.
Could it be that PCP is tempting people to buy more pimped out cars for a few extra quid a week?

Brera · 06-10-2018 6:15pm

denismc wrote: »

Interesting! When Skoda released the Karoq last year the lowest spec available was the Ambition which was traditionally the mid-level spec.
When I asked a salesman why this was, he replied that people have little interest in cars with basic spec.
Could it be that PCP is tempting people to buy more pimped out cars for a few extra quid a week?

More than likely due to PCP. VW were offering lower APR on highline models so a higline spec ended up costing the same amount per month as a treadline model.

beauf · 06-10-2018 6:18pm

Harder to sell on.

Though they used to say you don't get your money back thats spend on extras. It would make them easier to sell on.

KCross · 06-10-2018 6:22pm

Not sure where this guy got his info so decide for yourself
Its a good summary of what Seat/Skoda/VW have announced so far.

Snippet...
48kWh and 62kWh battery packs
Rear wheel drive as default with AWD option.

Shefwedfan · 06-10-2018 6:40pm

beauf wrote: »

Harder to sell on.

Though they used to say you don't get your money back thats spend on extras. It would make them easier to sell on.

When you are buying they tell you it will be harder to sell with lower spec

When you walk back in the door 3-4 year later and talk to the same salesman he will tell you second hand cars dont sell any easier with a higher spec :P

Believe me, this happened in a dealer with me

Shefwedfan · 06-10-2018 7:09pm

KCross wrote: »

Not sure where this guy got his info so decide for yourself
Its a good summary of what Seat/Skoda/VW have announced so far.

Snippet...
48kWh and 62kWh battery packs
Rear wheel drive as default with AWD option.

More or less he has read all the website and press releases and just put into a video. Nothing really new here....probably covered most in this thread already.....Apart from the 62kWh which never heard before and doesn't seem right as they now have said it will 3 batteries?

Factories seem wrong, VW are building a new one in US to provide supply....second thought, maybe the 16 are Skoda/Seat etc.....

The RWD and AWD was confirmed with they discussed the Crozz in the US when they announced it.....

Still a good video and good to have all the info in one place......

beauf · 06-10-2018 7:16pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

....When you walk back in the door 3-4 year later and talk to the same salesman he will tell you second hand cars dont sell any easier with a higher spec :P...

Kinda predictable no...

Shefwedfan · 06-10-2018 7:18pm

beauf wrote: »

Kinda predictable no...

Oh 100%....was just funny it was the exact same salesman.....

Shefwedfan · 06-10-2018 7:20pm

Just when we started to get excited it might get pulled away

https://insideevs.com/volkswagen-electric-car-delay-id-hatch/

VW Neo (eGolf replacement)

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