Migration Megathread

tretorn · 02-04-2019 11:50am

Odhinn wrote: »

You have a source for this?

You realise that we are now one of the hardest countries to be granted asylum in?

Have you a source for this.

Eta, we actually dont have a clue how many non nationals are here.

It took many, many sham marriages to take place before someone smelled a rat. It was only after the scam marriages were investigated that the taxi scam came to light. It was clear to anyone who wanted to see that the taxi service and its safety had been compromised. Its impossible to get a taxi in Dublin city at night time now thats not being driven by a non national, there isnt a white Irish taxi driver to be seen any night of the week in the very late evenings.

So carry on in your never never land. There is no scamming in the UK taxi service because guess what, its properly regulated.

oscarBravo · 02-04-2019 12:53pm

tretorn wrote: »

Its impossible to get a taxi in Dublin city at night time now thats not being driven by a non national, there isnt a white Irish taxi driver to be seen any night of the week in the very late evenings.

Shall we file that one under "I'm not racist, but..."?

Odhinn · 02-04-2019 12:57pm

tretorn wrote: »

Have you a source for this.

A source for what?

tretorn wrote: »

Eta, we actually dont have a clue how many non nationals are here.

Then why make a claim for 'hundreds of thousands'?

tretorn wrote: »

It took many, many sham marriages to take place before someone smelled a rat. It was only after the scam marriages were investigated that the taxi scam came to light. It was clear to anyone who wanted to see that the taxi service and its safety had been compromised. Its impossible to get a taxi in Dublin city at night time now thats not being driven by a non national, there isnt a white Irish taxi driver to be seen any night of the week in the very late evenings.

The colour of a drivers skin is not really a priority for me.

RandomName2 · 02-04-2019 1:11pm

oscarBravo wrote: »

Shall we file that one under "I'm not racist, but..."?

I'm not racist but taxi driving is not an eligible job for a work visa.

Shall we file that one under "I'm in favor of upholding the law, but..."

Timberrrrrrrr · 02-04-2019 1:51pm

RandomName2 wrote: »

I'm not racist but taxi driving is not an eligible job for a work visa.

Shall we file that one under "I'm in favor of upholding the law, but..."

Who's to say the driver needs a work visa? Do people actually ask the drivers for their full credentials and life history before getting into taxis?

oscarBravo · 02-04-2019 2:16pm

RandomName2 wrote: »

I'm not racist but taxi driving is not an eligible job for a work visa.

I'll draw my honourable friend's attention to the fact that the post I quoted was bemoaning the lack of white taxi drivers.

Shall we file that one under "I'm in favor of upholding the law, but..."

Only if you're really, really, really determined to avoid recognising racism even when it has dropped from dog-whistle territory to about middle C or so.

looksee · 02-04-2019 2:36pm

Some 50 (dear god!) years ago when I worked in an English midlands probation office the biggest groupings on the books were Irish and West Indian in more or less equal measure with indigenous British (or at any rate that was the perception, I doubt it was quite as equal as that). In the casually racist way of the time this was considered a threat to the future on the basis that these two uncontrolled and vaguely antisocial groupings would out-breed the locals.

In the event this particular city now has an almost 50% asian population and the Irish and the West Indians are no more noticeable than the indigenous English. Is that (the 50% Asian figure) a reason for panic? Well its reason for some irritation by the people who would like to see the place looking a bit more 'English' but in fact if you spread that percentage over the entire country it is vastly smaller.

A little 'perception' is worth a thousand facts, apparently.

RandomName2 · 02-04-2019 3:16pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Who's to say the driver needs a work visa? Do people actually ask the drivers for their full credentials and life history before getting into taxis?

Well he might be a student, which is very unlikely, and would also probably mean that he was breaking the law (while student visa holders can work, they can only do so for a very limited number of hours per week, legally). I suppose they may also be a tourist. A tourist taxi driver. :pac:

In general people wouldn't care about whether a taxi driver was legally disposed to be a taxi driver when all you are thinking about is getting home. I was in Dublin at night a good bit around Christmas, and between a third to a half of the taxi drivers I got were Nigerian (going by names and accents, not just color). To be honest I was happier getting someone that was illegitimately working as a taxi driver, than no taxi driver at all. I didn't notice any significantly worse driving among non-nationals than nationals, though the lack of driving credentials among scam taxi drivers might give one pause

https://www.lawsociety.ie/gazette/Top-Stories/garda-swoop-uncovers--taxi-licence--scam-by-illegal-immigrants/

4068ac1elhodqr · 02-04-2019 6:59pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Who's to say the driver needs a work visa? Do people actually ask the drivers for their full credentials and life history before getting into taxis?

Who's to say if all the taxi drivers are ligitmate, legal and non-criminal:

Operation Vantage: Major taxi scam uncovered as 180 non-EU nationals obtain licences despite having no legal status in Ireland

https://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/irish-news/major-taxi-scam-uncovered-as-180-noneu-nationals-obtain-licences-despite-having-no-legal-status-in-ireland-37882999.html

Not to mention the various fake documents, certs and 2000 fake registry office marriages. Oh, and 1200 bogus Irish registered companies (for bogus asylum seekers).

Must be harder getting a dog licence than a taxi roof light these days.

Midlife · 02-04-2019 7:27pm

Briggs Full Sunblock wrote: »

Must be harder getting a dog licence than a taxi roof light these days.

I think that's the problem.

Work life balance and pay are awful.

I mena anyone here want to be a taxi driver?

Are we surprised that no white people are driving taxi's in the late late night?

Is that the fault of immigrants?

Is it the fault of Islam?

Seems to be just a general 'I don't like coloured people' rant.

4068ac1elhodqr · 02-04-2019 7:37pm

Midlife wrote: »

I think that's the problem.

I mena anyone here want to be a taxi driver?

Not sure what your implying?

Is it that because driving a taxi 'isn't always a ball of fun',

- We should overlook illegal folks, using illegal documentation, to offer what (should rightly) be a highly regulated public service. Regardless of obvious liability and risk to the general public.

Dentists and rocket scientists have a much tougher job, maybe they should have a go at that too.

Midlife · 02-04-2019 7:42pm

Briggs Full Sunblock wrote: »

Not sure what your implying?

Is it that because driving a taxi 'isn't always a ball of fun',

- We should overlook illegal folks, using illegal documentation, to offer what (should rightly) be a highly regulated public service. Regardless of obvious liability and risk to the general public.

Dentists and rocket scientists have a much tougher job, maybe they should have a go at that too.

I think you're missing my point.

Taxi driving was deregulated.

It's now a badly paid job with horrific hours but anyone with a car and a no qualifications can do it.

4068ac1elhodqr · 02-04-2019 7:50pm

Midlife wrote: »

I think you're missing my point.

Taxi driving was deregulated.

It's now a badly paid job with horrific hours but anyone with a car and a no qualifications can do it.

But it also carries a higher risk, even than driving one's own car 12hrs a day at great pace.

It requires a licence, tax, roadworthyness and most importantly: traceable identification and public liability (commercial) insurance.

Washing dishes or washing cars has little risk to the public, but illegally driving folks for cash, inside 2ton of metal without licence or insurance, is a no-no.

AllForIt · 03-04-2019 1:49am

On the subject of Taxi Drivers I wouldn't care less what color the skin of the driver is. As long as they're not a chatterbox I couldn't care less. Why would one.

However, when I lived in Dublin and because I'm an avid walker, when I would walk for pleasure usually from Dun Laoghaire to the city center via the Rock Road, ethnic taxi drives would creep up behind you and shout out the window to ask if you were 'looking for a taxi'. This is an extremely irritating practice when out for a walk, especially in a city when you have to be to some degree 'wary'. It's unsettling. Now the question is how come these ppl don't know this isn't acceptable behavior in Ireland. A couple of times I've given them the finger to indicate not just that I'm not looking for a cab but that I find it utterly unacceptable for them to engage in this kind of touting for business practice. Some ppl might think I was racist in doing so and even argue that I should by respectful of the way they do things in their own country. These little things matter if you want social cohesion.

Schnitzler Hiyori Geta · 03-04-2019 11:03am

tretorn wrote: »

Has each and every one of those non nationals involved in the taxi scam been deported.

I don't know what you're talking about.

What about the woman who the Sunday Times ran the article on re her asylum claims, she is running for public office or was anyway.

Again, no clue.

The door has been left wide open anyway, we have hundreds of thousands of non nationals here and the authorities probably dont know who half of them are, hence the ease with which they set about scamming the taxi regulators and the amount of them that trafficked in women to "marry"them in Ireland so they could qualify for EU citizenship. These criminals are so far ahead of the Gardai and other security forces thats its laughable to think anyone is keeping control.

A non-national who brings in another non-national (by any means) is not eligible for EU citizenship because they get married here.

That makes no sense.

We now have a ludicrous situation where one person is given asylum even though he flew here on a plane and had to right to enter this country

You think the ability to fly in on a plane means you shouldn't be eligible for asylum? What do you think asylum is?

he then sits it out here while the fat cat lawyers submit their free legal aid fees and eventually he gets to stay.

The maximum legal aid fee is €508 per day, that's hardly "fat cat" now is it?

Next thing he applies for family reunification and maybe two dozen of the rellies in North Africa then sell up and then we have to house the whole lot and provide school places and health care and probably for a decade or more as most of the clan are unemployable. Then the claims for child benefit are put in and these economic migrants tend to have a lot of children and its the mug taxpayer who cant afford to have his own childrenwho is funding all of this.

They are only allowed to bring nuclear family members (children under 18, spouses, parents): http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Family%20Reunification%20Policy%20Document.pdf/Files/Family%20Reunification%20Policy%20Document.pdf

The rest is, frankly, just racist.

Schnitzler Hiyori Geta · 03-04-2019 11:04am

RandomName2 wrote: »

I'm not racist but taxi driving is not an eligible job for a work visa.

Shall we file that one under "I'm in favor of upholding the law, but..."

How do you know they need a visa? Or do you mean employment permit?

Chips Lovell · 03-04-2019 11:07am

Mod Note

This thread has gone way off topic. It isn't about taxi drivers in Dublin.

Thanks

RandomName2 · 03-04-2019 10:26pm

Schnitzler Hiyori Geta wrote: »

How do you know they need a visa? Or do you mean employment permit?

I know this thread isn't about taxi drivers. It's nominally about religion (a very specific religion), but it's part of a topic of immigration as a whole.

To answer your question it doesn't matter which I meant. Taxi driving is an ineligible occupation for an employment permit. Non-EU nationals that one sees as taxi drivers are going to typically be doing that work illegally. It is pretty straightforward.

https://dbei.gov.ie/en/What-We-Do/Workplace-and-Skills/Employment-Permits/Employment-Permit-Eligibility/Ineligible-Categories-of-Employment/

To this end the specific job of taxi driver is somewhat illuminating, as there are very few ways in which a non-eu national could be engaging in that particular line of work legally.

Schnitzler Hiyori Geta · 04-04-2019 9:48am

RandomName2 wrote: »

I know this thread isn't about taxi drivers. It's nominally about religion (a very specific religion), but it's part of a topic of immigration as a whole.

To answer your question it doesn't matter which I meant. Taxi driving is an ineligible occupation for an employment permit. Non-EU nationals that one sees as taxi drivers are going to typically be doing that work illegally. It is pretty straightforward.

https://dbei.gov.ie/en/What-We-Do/Workplace-and-Skills/Employment-Permits/Employment-Permit-Eligibility/Ineligible-Categories-of-Employment/

To this end the specific job of taxi driver is somewhat illuminating, as there are very few ways in which a non-eu national could be engaging in that particular line of work legally.

Your post relies on a significant number of blind assumptions based on race/colour:

1) That they're not EEA nationals;
2) That they aren't stamp 4;
3) That taxi driving is their only or full-time job.

You're just digging deeper now.

RandomName2 · 04-04-2019 11:01am

Schnitzler Hiyori Geta wrote: »

Your post relies on a significant number of blind assumptions based on race/colour:

Obviously you aren't going to have a generalization that is 100% accurate. That goes without saying. When making generalizations, hopefully what one looks for is greatest probabilities.

For instance I've already covered the eventuality of someone on a student visa working for 4 hours a week as a taxi driver. The fact that it is theoretically possible doesn't negate the fact that it highly unlikely. People Before Profit may win an absolute majority in the next general election. It is possible.

Schnitzler Hiyori Geta wrote: »

You're just digging deeper now.

Presumably not as deep as the 180 arrested this month.

4068ac1elhodqr · 04-04-2019 2:30pm

Schnitzler Hiyori Geta wrote: »

Your post relies on a significant number of blind assumptions based on race/colour:

1) That they're not EEA nationals;
2) That they aren't stamp 4;
3) That taxi driving is their only or full-time job.

No ones indicating 'all' non-EU taxi-drivers are up to no good, but the recent Operation Vantage* proves there is clearly an issue at hand:

*"Major taxi scam uncovered as 180 non-EU nationals obtain licences despite having no legal status in Ireland"

Easily obtaining void documents, licences, insurance and so on, whilst putting the wider general public at risk or liability. Part-time or full-time is irrelvant.

Operation Vantage also mentions 2,100 sham marriges (mostly via Asian 'grooms' {India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistan}), €20m in crime proceeds entering the gang underworld from this and so on...

Even a student garda resigned from the Garda College in 2018, after he was found to be in a sham marriage in order to get citizenship.

Midlife · 04-04-2019 8:26pm

Briggs Full Sunblock wrote: »

No ones indicating 'all' non-EU taxi-drivers are up to no good, but the recent Operation Vantage* proves there is clearly an issue at hand:

*"Major taxi scam uncovered as 180 non-EU nationals obtain licences despite having no legal status in Ireland"

Easily obtaining void documents, licences, insurance and so on, whilst putting the wider general public at risk or liability. Part-time or full-time is irrelvant.

Operation Vantage also mentions 2,100 sham marriges (mostly via Asian 'grooms' {India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistan}), €20m in crime proceeds entering the gang underworld from this and so on...

Even a student garda resigned from the Garda College in 2018, after he was found to be in a sham marriage in order to get citizenship.

What's the issue at hand?

That people desparate to come to this country till try and use the legal loopholes and areas where there's lack of oversightto gain entry and find employment?

Why would we expect any less.

Operation Vantage says that the taxi reg needs to have better standards. Not a lot else.

4068ac1elhodqr · 04-04-2019 8:43pm

Midlife wrote: »

What's the issue at hand?
...
Why would we expect any less.

So, as well as thousands of sham (illegal, not 'loophole') marriges, tens of millions of €uros going into the criminal underworld (usually to support more of the same, or worse).

...You're also generally happy enough with the hundreds of unqualified, false documented, uninsured, driving the (unaware) public about for some cash-to-pocket?

Fair enough 'expectation', and 'no issues whatsoever' from you, on that?

Midlife · 04-04-2019 9:06pm

Briggs Full Sunblock wrote: »

So, as well as thousands of sham (illegal, not 'loophole') marriges, tens of millions of €uros going into the criminal underworld (usually to support more of the same, or worse).

...You're also generally happy enough with the hundreds of unqualified, false documented, uninsured, driving the (unaware) public about for some cash-to-pocket?

Fair enough 'expectation', and 'no issues whatsoever' from you, on that?

Who said happy? And who said, no issues whatsoever?

I'm simply saying that all it says is we need tighter regulations on the above.

You might be saying it's because these people are from some other religion or something.

RandomName2 · 04-04-2019 9:20pm

Midlife wrote: »

Who said happy? And who said, no issues whatsoever?

I'm simply saying that all it says is we need tighter regulations on the above.

You might be saying it's because these people are from some other religion or something.

It was just the usual labyrinthine discussion that involved those in favor of illegal immigration saying that there was nothing to see here, and that pointing out what is clearly a large base of fraudulent drivers is merely being racist. When evidence showing the endemic nature of the sham is shown, those in favor of illegal immigration sidle off, waiting for the next opportunity to call people racists.

I'm not saying that there isn't racist attitudes among those who are against illegal immigration. It would be surprising if there wasn't. I'm saying that those in favor of illegal immigration are willing to turn a blind eye to illegal activities because it suits their motives. Being hypocritical I suppose I could say that I am also willing to turn a blind eye to illegal activities in a local sense, but in my defense I can say that I don't think there's much value in reporting an individual who is working illegally when the problem is at a far higher level.

It's also nothing really to do with Islam, although the fact that Islam isn't an indigenous religion to any of the EU countries gives it a tenuous relevance to a conversation about immigration.

4068ac1elhodqr · 04-04-2019 9:20pm

Midlife wrote: »

Who said happy? And who said, no issues whatsoever?

You questioned what the issue was

Midlife wrote: »

What's the issue at hand?

And seem unsurprised by the operation's results.

Midlife wrote: »

Why would we expect any less.

Midlife wrote: »

I'm simply saying that all it says is we need tighter regulations on the above.

You only implied regulation on taxis. What about the thousands of sham marriges, you're cool with that funding a criminal underworld, maybe you wouldn't you expect any less or question if this was an issue?

Midlife wrote: »

You might be saying it's because these people are from some other religion or something.

Fact is you just now have brought religion into the equation. The report is based entirely around 'non-EU nationals'. Of course it may well be that most are some certain countries, as also outlined in the report, but that could just be a random fluke.

oscarBravo · 04-04-2019 11:43pm

RandomName2 wrote: »

...pointing out what is clearly a large base of fraudulent drivers is merely being racist.

On the contrary, some of us were pointing out that this:

tretorn wrote: »

Its impossible to get a taxi in Dublin city at night time now thats not being driven by a non national, there isnt a white Irish taxi driver to be seen any night of the week in the very late evenings.

...is racist. Because it is.

Midlife · 05-04-2019 8:18am

Briggs Full Sunblock wrote: »

you're cool with that funding a criminal underworld, maybe you wouldn't you expect any less or question if this was an issue?

There you go again. You're now saying I'm cool with funding organised crime?? I'd prefer you didn't assign such nonsense opinions to me. I'm not offended or anything but it's a big distraction and waste of time in terms of the discussion to hand.

I may not state my exact opinion on everything. That doesn't mean you get to asssign it to me,especially when it's so rediculous.

I think another poster just said that lots of people on this thread are in favour of illegal migration. I'm not so sure that's the case and I think it's a bit childish to assume that people disagreeeing with you on one issue are blind to all the nuances and basically disagree with you on everything.

Briggs Full Sunblock wrote: »

Fact is you just now have brought religion into the equation. The report is based entirely around 'non-EU nationals'. Of course it may well be that most are some certain countries, as also outlined in the report, but that could just be a random fluke.

Check the thread title.

I've been saying for ages that this thread should be changed to 'illegal immigration' or 'mass migration'. Linking everything bad abut immigration to a religion is wrong IMO.

My point remains. Weak taxi licensing, easily organised non-checked wedding ceremonies will obviously be fodder for people trying to enter the country.

We neeed to stop it happening but you need to understand that economic migrants will simply seek out the next easy way into the country. I think vilifying them for it is a bit short sighted.

ancapailldorcha · 05-04-2019 8:23am

No more talk of taxis please.

Timberrrrrrrr · 05-04-2019 9:08am

Briggs Full Sunblock wrote: »

You questioned what the issue was

And seem unsurprised by the operation's results.

You only implied regulation on taxis. What about the thousands of sham marriges, [/b]you're cool with that funding a criminal underworld, [/b]maybe you wouldn't you expect any less or question if this was an issue?

Fact is you just now have brought religion into the equation. The report is based entirely around 'non-EU nationals'. Of course it may well be that most are some certain countries, as also outlined in the report, but that could just be a random fluke.

Are you ok with your funding of the criminal underworld?

Migration Megathread

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