Two more victims of "unknown substance" in U.K.

Dohnjoe · 05-09-2018 4:08pm

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Could they be Russian citizens sure but that meaningless information? Russians arrive every day to England and are very innocent. They also could be Ukrainian spies or Russian gangsters who knows.

They are identified as Russians. The target was a Russian spy. The country suspected of being involved is Russia. The nerve agent used was originally developed by Russia. The internal evidence (that the public isn't privy to) pointed to Russian involvement, the dossier convinced many administrations with their own intelligence agencies. A Russian spy was poisoned before, the suspects were Russian. Those suspects were protected by... Russia.

"It can't be Russia.. it could be anyone" - incredulous posters who support Putin regardless of information or evidence. AKA the term Putinbots.

Cheerful Spring · 05-09-2018 4:11pm

Venom wrote: »

I doubt the full truth regarding this attack will ever come out but it's funny how everytime May is taking hits over her handling of Brexit, this story pops up again in the news.

An update on Skipral case also came when the jihadists carried out that chemical attack in Syria. Russia has just started bombing in Idlib Syria. The British are likely going to be involved in the new attack against Syria soon its perfect time to come out with this.

Cheerful Spring · 05-09-2018 4:14pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

They are identified as Russians. The target was a Russian spy. The country suspected of being involved is Russia. The nerve agent used was originally developed by Russia. The internal evidence (that the public isn't privy to) pointed to Russian involvement, the dossier convinced many administrations with their own intelligence agencies. A Russian spy was poisoned before, the suspects were Russian. Those suspects were protected by... Russia.

"It can't be Russia.. it could be anyone" - incredulous posters who support Putin regardless of information or evidence. AKA the term Putinbots.

Theresa May said the information was classified they were Russian. Police claim they could be using aliases so they could be anyone. Theresa May is claiming they are GRU but will she show the evidence, doubtful.

Elmer Blooker · 05-09-2018 4:39pm

March 2018: 'highly likely' Russian state involvement.
September 2018: 'almost certainly' Russian state involvement.

I see the 'evidence' has really progressed over the past six months!

WinnyThePoo · 05-09-2018 4:45pm

Why is everyone talking about May. Scotland Yard released photos of the men. They certainly have more information than the 'it could be anybody' parade.

_Whimsical_ · 05-09-2018 4:59pm

They mentioned on the news that the man who had been poisoned alongside his girlfriend who has since died, is now back in hospital and his brother has told media that he is close to death.

mcmoustache · 05-09-2018 5:05pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

"It can't be Russia.. it could be anyone" - incredulous posters who support Putin regardless of information or evidence. AKA the term Putinbots.

What's mad about it all is that they'll ignore the mountain of evidence pointing at Russia and jump on the slightest, solitary hint that anyone else could be implicated. Basically, "It's never Russia. Even when it is".

WinnyThePoo · 06-09-2018 11:41am

Fascinating and grinding work by the police. They went through 11,000 hourse of Cctv footage, to piece these guys movements.

[Deleted User] · 06-09-2018 12:14pm

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

Fascinating and grinding work by the police. They went through 11,000 hourse of Cctv footage, to piece these guys movements.

it is pretty meticulous work.

Obviously it is all nonsense and the cctv footage of two guys arriving from Moscow and hanging around the Skripal house on the morning of the attack is all a coincidence. Salisbury is one of the UK's biggest attractions for Russian tourists, so their presence there and the fact a Russian produced nerve agent was used on a former Russian spy are in no way connected.

it could have been anyone really and besides, Putin is a lovely guy and likes puppy dogs and unicorns and stuff.

or something like that

2smiggy · 06-09-2018 12:20pm

former UK ambassador Craig Murray not too convinced about the whole thing, but sur what would he know about anything ...

link

ohnonotgmail · 06-09-2018 12:25pm

2smiggy wrote: »

former UK ambassador Craig Murray not too convinced about the whole thing, but sur what would he know about anything ...

link

his synopsis basically breaks down to "they couldn't be russian agents because they are incompetent".

2smiggy · 06-09-2018 12:30pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

his synopsis basically breaks down to "they couldn't be russian agents because they are incompetent".

he is a long time calling this bullsh*t , if the best they can come up with is a few cctv photos 6 months after the event would you not have doubts too ?

ohnonotgmail · 06-09-2018 12:33pm

2smiggy wrote: »

he is a long time calling this bullsh*t , if the best they can come up with is a few cctv photos 6 months after the event would you not have doubts too ?

Given how much CCTV footage they had to go through i'm not surprised it has taken this long. I do remember him being interviewed when this all first started. I would question his motives. He is far too quick to dismiss any possibility that the russians were involved.

mcmoustache · 06-09-2018 12:37pm

2smiggy wrote: »

former UK ambassador Craig Murray not too convinced about the whole thing, but sur what would he know about anything ...

link

Which Craig Murray?

Disgraced former diplomat Craig Murray?
The one who left his wife for an uzbeki stripper?
The one who exchanged sex for visas?
The one who works for wikileaks?
The one who claims that Russians weren't interfering in the US elections?
The one who claims that the DNC emails were given to him in a wooded area after they had already been released?

The man's a crank.

[Deleted User] · 06-09-2018 12:37pm

Craig Murray has an agenda. Only people looking for what they want to hear would give him any credence.

ohnonotgmail · 06-09-2018 12:39pm

mcmoustache wrote: »

Which Craig Murray?

Disgraced former diplomat Craig Murray?
The one who left his wife for an uzbeki stripper?
The one who exchanged sex for visas?
The one who works for wikileaks?
The one who claims that Russians weren't interfering in the US elections?
The one who claims that the DNC emails were given to him in a wooded area after they had already been released?

The man's a crank.

I actually wasnt aware of that part of his history but it now makes much more sense.

2smiggy · 06-09-2018 12:39pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Given how much CCTV footage they had to go through i'm not surprised it has taken this long. I do remember him being interviewed when this all first started. I would question his motives. He is far too quick to dismiss any possibility that the russians were involved.

who know's who or what was involved, just i'd be very slow in believing a repor 6 months after the fact. This was world wide news at the time, and it took 6 months to pick out a few cctv photos, and as they admit, probably fake names, and then put the blame on russian secret service ?? strikes me as very odd

2smiggy · 06-09-2018 12:40pm

glasso wrote: »

Craig Murray has an agenda. Only people looking for what they want to hear would give him any credence.

same as the bbc then , or british government you could argue

ohnonotgmail · 06-09-2018 12:41pm

2smiggy wrote: »

who know's who or what was involved, just i'd be very slow in believing a repor 6 months after the fact. This was world wide news at the time, and it took 6 months to pick out a few cctv photos, and as they admit, probably fake names, and then put the blame on russian secret service ?? strikes me as very odd

well it was a little bit more than a few cctv photos. Just because you cannot comprehend the enormity of the task facing the police does not make it suspicious.

mcmoustache · 06-09-2018 12:45pm

glasso wrote: »

Craig Murray has an agenda. Only people looking for what they want to hear would give him any credence.

Having an agenda isn't the worst thing in the world. It's possible to be honest and reliable even with an agenda.

The problem with Murray is that too many of his claims have been shown to be either mistaken or fabricated. His input should be valued about at much as a randommer down in the pub but some people think that he knows what he's at just because he was a failed diplomat in Uzbekistan once upon a time and runs a blog.

2smiggy · 06-09-2018 12:49pm

mcmoustache wrote: »

Which Craig Murray?

Disgraced former diplomat Craig Murray?
The one who left his wife for an uzbeki stripper?
The one who exchanged sex for visas?
The one who works for wikileaks?
The one who claims that Russians weren't interfering in the US elections?
The one who claims that the DNC emails were given to him in a wooded area after they had already been released?

The man's a crank.

i read his book years ago, liked it, think perhaps the british government did not like him , and so sullied his name ? all theory i know ..

[Deleted User] · 06-09-2018 12:52pm

2smiggy wrote: »

who know's who or what was involved, just i'd be very slow in believing a repor 6 months after the fact. This was world wide news at the time, and it took 6 months to pick out a few cctv photos, and as they admit, probably fake names, and then put the blame on russian secret service ?? strikes me as very odd

Matching up pictures of two men in Salisbury, with images of the same two men arriving in to Gatwick (which handles over 120,000 passengers per day) and then departing from Heathrow (which handles over 200,000 passengers per day) is pretty time consuming I would guess.

seamus · 06-09-2018 12:56pm

2smiggy wrote: »

who know's who or what was involved, just i'd be very slow in believing a repor 6 months after the fact. This was world wide news at the time, and it took 6 months to pick out a few cctv photos, and as they admit, probably fake names, and then put the blame on russian secret service ?? strikes me as very odd

The level of denialism to convince yourself of this is nothing short of amazing.

Two people are found in a near-death state in a small park in a quiet part of London, poisoned, with no witnesses nor any trace of the poison.

And you're surprised that it took this long to get CCTV images of the suspects? Are you fncking serious?

We should be amazed they have anything at all.

Are you pro-Russia, or do you just hate the Brits, so distrust them by default?

mcmoustache · 06-09-2018 12:57pm

2smiggy wrote: »

i read his book years ago, liked it, think perhaps the british government did not like him , and so sullied his name ? all theory i know ..

That's possible and I can't rule out the idea that the the Brits would disgrace him.

What set off alarm bells for me was the association with Julian Assange and his insistence that Russia had nothing to do with the 2016 US election and the fact that Hannity refers to him a lot. When I looked further into him, it turned out that he was always just taking the Russian line on everything.

2smiggy · 06-09-2018 12:58pm

Aegir wrote: »

Matching up pictures of two men in Salisbury, with images of the same two men arriving in to Gatwick (which handles over 120,000 passengers per day) and then departing from Heathrow (which handles over 200,000 passengers per day) is pretty time consuming I would guess.

i guess. or maybe they would have facial recognition software that would work quicker than 6 months

i presume they have something quicker than commodore 64's

2smiggy · 06-09-2018 1:03pm

mcmoustache wrote: »

That's possible and I can't rule out the idea that the the Brits would disgrace him.

What set off alarm bells for me was the association with Julian Assange and his insistence that Russia had nothing to do with the 2016 US election and the fact that Hannity refers to him a lot. When I looked further into him, it turned out that he was always just taking the Russian line on everything.

won't disagree that he is definitely leaning towards the russian side. probably due to his distrust after his own dealings with the british government.

still bringing out these names and photos after 6 months would surely seem odd at best. he was fired by the same government that told us about Iraq's stockpile of nuclear weapons, after he raised concern about torture by US and British agency's in the country where he was the British ambassador

ohnonotgmail · 06-09-2018 1:04pm

2smiggy wrote: »

i guess. or maybe they would have facial recognition software that would work quicker than 6 months

i presume they have something quicker than commodore 64's

you've probably watched too much CSI.

Discodog · 06-09-2018 1:12pm

The Police had these images they just delayed their release until they knew there was no prospect of arrests. You don't alert the criminals that you are on to them.

Cheerful Spring · 06-09-2018 1:17pm

mcmoustache wrote: »

Which Craig Murray?

Disgraced former diplomat Craig Murray?
The one who left his wife for an uzbeki stripper?
The one who exchanged sex for visas?
The one who works for wikileaks?
The one who claims that Russians weren't interfering in the US elections?
The one who claims that the DNC emails were given to him in a wooded area after they had already been released?

The man's a crank.

You misrepresenting what actually happened.

The human rights abuses were worse in Uzbekistan than in Iraq, thought Murray in the run-up to the invasion of Iraq, but the latter was being invaded while the government of the former was being supported. In an internal document by Murray, later leaked to the Financial Times, he commented that Secret Intelligence Service (MI6) used intelligence provided by the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) from the Uzbek authorities gained through torture. "Tortured dupes are forced to sign up to confessions showing what the Uzbek government wants the US and UK to believe", he wrote. "It is moral, legally and practically wrong to continue to receive this material. It is hypocritical and fatally undermines our moral standing," he wrote in a July 2004 dispatch.

The British Government went after him for leaking and made up fake evidence to have him removed. They were later forced to drop all charges. Craig has a moral compass, people in government don't like people knowing the truth.

Cheerful Spring · 06-09-2018 1:30pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Given how much CCTV footage they had to go through i'm not surprised it has taken this long. I do remember him being interviewed when this all first started. I would question his motives. He is far too quick to dismiss any possibility that the russians were involved.

He uses logic and common sense.

At 09.15 on Sunday 4 March the Skripals’ car was seen on CCTV driving through three different locations in Salisbury.

But the Metropolitan Police state that Boshirov and Petrov did not arrive in Salisbury until 11.48 on the day of the poisoning. That means that they could not have applied a nerve agent to the Skripals’ doorknob before noon at the earliest.

They left home sometime before 1.30pm and were perfectly fine at 3.35pm they were spotted outside a fitness store.

This slowest working military grade nerve agent ever made!

Two more victims of "unknown substance" in U.K.

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