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Donald Trump is the President Mark IV (Read Mod Warning in OP)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,392 ✭✭✭spacecoyote


    ELM327 wrote: »
    If you consider the treatment handed out here, the complete bile and vitriol spouted in my direction, the oleaginous undercurrent replied to pretty much any comment I make - regardless of what I say or how down the middle it is - then if you extend that same level of welcome to migrants I'd be happy with that.

    I think you have up the moral high ground when you stated that you would respect Trump more if he was caught on tape making a racial tirade


  • Registered Users Posts: 657 ✭✭✭irishash


    ELM327 wrote: »
    If you consider the treatment handed out here, the complete bile and vitriol spouted in my direction, the oleaginous undercurrent replied to pretty much any comment I make - regardless of what I say or how down the middle it is - then if you extend that same level of welcome to migrants I'd be happy with that.

    Regardless of your (supposed) views on LGBTQ rights and abortion, and whatever popular social topic is trending, that last comment shows why you get some of the replies you do.

    If you want to debate then fine, but dont complain when you receive mockery for a stupid post like the one about Bush. I have made mistakes here, been corrected publically and I have thanked people for it. I dont pretend to know everything and am happy for this forum to educate me. I am not here to sermonise unlike some.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    Who doesn't want free trade?

    I imagine people will be happy to see the end of the EU's high import tarriffs?

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1021909900941815809


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,224 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    irishash wrote: »
    Regardless of your (supposed) views on LGBTQ rights and abortion, and whatever popular social topic is trending, that last comment shows why you get some of the replies you do.
    Yet another example of this condescension
    irishash wrote: »
    If you want to debate then fine, but dont complain when you receive mockery for a stupid post like the one about Bush. I have made mistakes here, been corrected publically and I have thanked people for it. I dont pretend to know everything and am happy for this forum to educate me. I am not here to sermomise unlike some.
    The point about the bushes was correct.

    The meaning was clear. Pointing to where they were born or educated is irrelevant. The bushes are Texans.

    Even the superbowl commentary when the bushes did the coin toss referred several times to their Houston residence (even once erroneously as a Houston native).





    But the point behind this is that you can apparently feel free to deride me, call me stupid, mock me, all without any sort of moderation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,273 ✭✭✭UsedToWait


    ELM327 wrote: »

    But the point behind this is that you can apparently feel free to deride me, call me stupid, mock me, all without any sort of moderation.

    Poor me stuff.
    I thought this thread was for debate of the issues, not debate of your issues.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,839 ✭✭✭Jelle1880


    Who doesn't want free trade?

    I imagine people will be happy to see the end of the EU's high import tarriffs?

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1021909900941815809

    lmao.

    He is the one who started this whole trade war, and now the EU should back down and stop tariffs ?
    For a strong and stable genius he seems to have little knowledge of how economics work.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,224 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    What do you consider yourself "down the middle" on that has been given bad treatment?
    All the comments regarding the future democrat nominees for one.
    Any time I make a comment I get 10 comments back, ranging from disagreement (which of course is perfectly fine), but then the insults, ranging from mild to egregious, take over


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,224 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    UsedToWait wrote: »
    Poor me stuff.
    I thought this thread was for debate of the issues, not debate of your issues.
    People make it a debate about me when they insult me, deride me, and I report the post but no action is taken by the moderators who seem very ok with personal insults once the recipient is a trump supporter


  • Registered Users Posts: 657 ✭✭✭irishash


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Yet another example of this condescension

    The point about the bushes was correct.

    But the point behind this is that you can apparently feel free to deride me, call me stupid, mock me, all without any sort of moderation.

    Not condescension, just doubt. Never have I met or spoken with a gay, abortion and ANTI-immigration rights activist.

    The point you made about Bush was not correct. I moved from Galway to Dublin 20 years ago. That does not make me a dub in any way shape or form, nor has it amended my ideals or philosophy.

    I have never called you stupid or derided you, but I will always call you out on the stupid and false things you say.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,224 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    irishash wrote: »
    Not condescension, just doubt. Never have I met or spoken with a gay, abortion and ANTI-immigration rights activist..

    Mod: Elm327, do not quote other forums please.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,137 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    The Trump Administration has edited out a part of the Helsinki press conference with Trump and Putin to remove a reporter asking Putin if he wanted Trump to win the election

    http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/trump-white-house-edits-putin-support-for-trump-out-of-transcript-1284716611545?playlist=associated


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,939 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    ELM327 wrote: »
    So when I post, people reply, I address the replies directed at me and now it's about me? :rolleyes:

    It does become obvious where the empathy for Trump comes from!


  • Registered Users Posts: 657 ✭✭✭irishash


    Penn wrote: »
    The Trump Administration has edited out a part of the Helsinki press conference with Trump and Putin to remove a reporter asking Putin if he wanted Trump to win the election

    http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/trump-white-house-edits-putin-support-for-trump-out-of-transcript-1284716611545?playlist=associated

    Wow - state censorship is alive and well in the United State of Trump. But how did they think they would get away with this? Did they believe that MSNBC, CNN, AP, Reuters, et all would not notice? It is the key part of the conference they keep going back to.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,876 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    irishash wrote: »
    Wow - state censorship is alive and well in the United State of Trump. But how did they think they would get away with this? Did they believe that MSNBC, CNN, AP, Reuters, et all would not notice? It is the key part of the conference they keep going back to.

    yeah - but you see. They are all "fake news" according to him and his cult followers.

    The White House is also rowing back on the normal practice of disclosing content of calls made by Trump.

    Coupled with the fact that Helsinki is over a week ago and we STILL don't know what was agreed...


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    UsedToWait wrote: »
    Poor me stuff.
    I thought this thread was for debate of the issues, not debate of your issues.


    The poor me stuff is a tactic the alt right are pushing pretty hard since SHS was thrown out of that restaurant. Lamenting the loss of civility and decorum on the left. Feigning offence at the slightest perceived insult. The poster you are responding to came into an immigration thread in AH and accused myself and others of stalking him to harass him. You can see it in the White House ow with Trump complaining that he is going to suffer from Russian interference. There's always been an element of it but it has been amplified a lot recently. I think it is because Trump's behaviour and comments has backed them into so many corners they are having trouble arguing points.


  • Registered Users Posts: 657 ✭✭✭irishash


    ELM327 wrote: »
    20 years versus 60+ though.
    But again you are missing the point. Which was regarding the type of candidate the dems should field for 2020.

    The democrats should put forward a social and fiscal conservative republican?


    Ok, ok.....I had to get that one in.

    I am guessing your point was that the democrats need a down to earth, homespun, gosh-darnit sort of politician like Carter or Clinton, but yet not like Carter or Clinton?

    Bush was not that sort of person either - he was a seasoned politician who had served in the military and was director of the CIA.

    The democrats need somebody the American people believe over the lies of Trump. Nothing more needed than that......well other than being male (that damn glass ceiling).


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,724 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Penn wrote: »
    The Trump Administration has edited out a part of the Helsinki press conference with Trump and Putin to remove a reporter asking Putin if he wanted Trump to win the election

    http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/trump-white-house-edits-putin-support-for-trump-out-of-transcript-1284716611545?playlist=associated

    I'm presuming then that the records of state visits aren't legally protected, or required to have 100% accurate transcripts. Though given the poverty of staff in the WH at the moment, I wouldn't put it past them to be unknowingly breaking the law here - but who's going to pull them up on it?


  • Registered Users Posts: 657 ✭✭✭irishash


    pixelburp wrote: »
    I'm presuming then that the records of state visits aren't legally protected, or required to have 100% accurate transcripts. Though given the poverty of staff in the WH at the moment, I wouldn't put it past them to be unknowingly breaking the law here - but who's going to pull them up on it?

    If somebody edited a protected document and that meant the law was broken, you can be sure somebody in the US is all over it, like flies on the stuff that comes out of Trumps mouth.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Yet another example of this condescension

    The point about the bushes was correct.

    The meaning was clear. Pointing to where they were born or educated is irrelevant. The bushes are Texans.

    Even the superbowl commentary when the bushes did the coin toss referred several times to their Houston residence (even once erroneously as a Houston native).





    But the point behind this is that you can apparently feel free to deride me, call me stupid, mock me, all without any sort of moderation.
    You specifically stated that you are more likely to support Trump when he makes racist statements...
    Who doesn't want free trade?

    I imagine people will be happy to see the end of the EU's high import tarriffs?

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1021909900941815809
    The entire idea is nonsensical to open up free trade entirely with the US unless he plans to seek EU membership or trade zone membership. The WTO wouldn't allow for such an agreement outside of it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,751 ✭✭✭Thepoet85


    Penn wrote:
    The Trump Administration has edited out a part of the Helsinki press conference with Trump and Putin to remove a reporter asking Putin if he wanted Trump to win the election

    Absolutely incredible. Orwellian would be an understatement. And he's the one shouting "Fake News".

    I'd be interested to see how his supporters here spin this one.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,392 ✭✭✭spacecoyote


    Thepoet85 wrote: »
    Absolutely incredible. Orwellian would be an understatement. And he's the one shouting "Fake News".

    I'd be interested to see how his supporters here spin this one.

    They'll probably try a roll-back & shift the blame it on that sneaky white house stenographer that quit around the time of the summit trying to sabotage the white house or some rubbish like that.

    Whatever way they soon it, it'll be delivered with complete derision by SHS no doubt


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,724 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Less than 24 hours after Trump told a captured audience not to trust anything they read or hear, but to trust him.

    Like... I get this is a serious political forum - but COME ON.

    Lex Luthor operated with more cunning and smarts than this clown car of wannabe autocrats, and how the hell are we supposed to seriously discuss an administration that operates with this level of rank contempt for normal procedures or decencies? To take seriously anyone who thinks - yup - a casual erosion of basic protocols is a small price to pay for going on some form of populist bender. Take that pesky libs with your silly expectations of fairness.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Trent Houseboat


    Spoiler alert on how his supporters will spin this:
    They don't care and probably will not address it.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 14,776 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Mod note:

    New Thread for discussion of Donald Trump. Towards the end of the last one things were getting a bit personal, so let's try to avoid that this time around.

    Same rules apply re: link dumps, one liners etc. Other than that I hope you all enjoy a robust and illuminating debate.

    I'm going to refer everyone to the opening post of this new thread.

    Cop yourselves on.

    Thank you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,876 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    Here's a link to the tape (with intro) if ye want to hear it

    https://twitter.com/CuomoPrimeTime/status/1021926239756537857?s=19


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,530 ✭✭✭jooksavage


    Thepoet85 wrote: »
    Absolutely incredible. Orwellian would be an understatement. And he's the one shouting "Fake News".

    I'd be interested to see how his supporters here spin this one.

    Coupled with Trump's comments from yesterday to assembled veterans, it's pretty Orwellian:

    "Just remember: What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening." So basically, don't trust anything you see or hear. Look to me for truth.

    1984's Oceania was based on Stalinist Soviet Union, it's not a fantasy Orwell plucked from his imagination. We're definitely gone past the point of comparing Trump to this or that authoritarian leader. It's pretty obvious what he'd do if he found himself in the shoes of those monsters. The only thing that remains to be seen is if the US government and it's people can stand up to him.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,442 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    A man that even his supporters accept is a liar, is telling people not to believe what is in front of their eyes or what they can hear, but to believe him?

    Maybe he misspoke though. May be meant to say "Is what's happening". Poor fella. Another brilliant and epoch defining speech lost to the world


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,758 ✭✭✭Pelvis


    everlast75 wrote: »
    Here's a link to the tape (with intro) if ye want to hear it

    https://twitter.com/CuomoPrimeTime/status/1021926239756537857?s=19
    Well, I have to presume there's more to it than that contained in the other recordings.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,990 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    That particular tape is s red herring imo and I'm saddened no outlet has managed to see it for what it is.

    There's no crime at all on the tape so what do you have, possible proof the president is a liar and can't be trusted at his word?

    So what? His supporters know this and don't care, his detractors know this too and they also know at this point his supporters don't care so what does it achieve?

    It is possibly a signal Trump and Cohen's relationship is done, again nothing Earth shattering. The WH lied about the content of the tape, they lie now regularly. When the tape was played and they were found to be lying about the content they provided a statement of epically nonsensical proportions that they would have to know nobody is going to believe, as it makes zero sense and is not possibly true. They don't care, that was evident with the amount of effort they put into their response.

    It isn't going to change anything for anybody on either side and there is no crime. Hey they stopped talking about Russia and Helsinki though. Stopped talking about how putin went against the US the first opportunity he had after Helsinki when he was supposed to show how Russia could be a friend to the states. Nobody giving much focus to how North Korea isn't going the way it was supposed to either. Trade war not the easy thing to win it was supposed to be either.

    Look if there's more tapes with something actually constituting a crime on it, great get it out there. This one isn't much behind a headline, poor quality audio, enough ambiguity that Trump's side can push a narrative and not get pinned down by it and further evidence be is a liar and a shady businessman, basically no new information.

    Cohen is going to have an uphill battle convincing the American people he is a sympathetic character too and he doesn't come out of it looking anything but what we have been told about him ethically.

    Trump waived his attorney client privilege when it came to that tape, you have got to wonder why that is. There isn't anything to actually hurt him on it in my mind, I've listened to it a lot. A lot. I am sure of what he is saying on it and what intent it speaks to, but it has very little relevance going forward.

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,137 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Pelvis wrote: »
    Well, I have to presume there's more to it than that contained in the other recordings.

    Likely, but there's still enough in that tape to be of concern. Trump previously claimed he had no knowledge of any such payments and Cohen was working on his own, but now we can hear Trump authorising it. It would have been done so as to not have it made public during the campaign which, if they used campaign funds for it, would be illegal. Trump and his team previously waived attorney-client privilege with regards to Cohen so this is proof the tapes can be made public. And the tape was released by Cohen's lawyers, presumably to show Cohen was working under the orders of Trump, which may show Cohen is turning on Trump and may flip on him with regards other matters (they obviously wouldn't make anything public which would have a serious effect on Mueller's investigation).

    If for example Cohen says the money to pay off MacDougal was from campaign funds, that tape effectively shows Trump ordering it. His lawyers may be able to say Trump never said to pay for it with campaign funds, but it could still be used against Trump in a serious way and lead to other revelations.


This discussion has been closed.
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