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Jamal Khashoggi disappearance

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    TomOnBoard wrote: »
    The tech community have said that there is no technical way for the watch to sync with the phone outside the Consulate due to distance.

    Depends where she was but it is improbable alright.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,107 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    I suppose the manner in which any recordings were made and transmitted is irrelevant to most of us (We'll leave the spies to worry abt whether their defences have been compromised)... That recordings exist and can be validated is the big point...

    If such validated 'proof' is produced, this ought to have huge repercussions. On its face, it is at least as serious as the Skripal poisonings in Salisbury, and look how the West's diplomatic services responded to that!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 320 ✭✭VonZan


    Depends where she was but it is improbable alright.

    It's extremely improbable. What is more likely is that the Turks or someone else bugged the Saudi embassy.

    I think this battle is futile as Saudi money talks and the US and the EU have let the Saudis away with a lot for selling them expensive military equipment. I also doubt Trump will take on the Saudis as they were one of the first countries internationally to support him. The US also heavily relies on Saudi intelligence in the middle east so it's no surprise Pompeo is so keen to sell them military equipment to keep the Saudis on board. It will be very interesting to see how this goes.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    TomOnBoard wrote: »
    I suppose the manner in which any recordings were made and transmitted is irrelevant to most of us (We'll leave the spies to worry abt whether their defences have been compromised)... That recordings exist and can be validated is the big point...

    If such validated 'proof' is produced, this ought to have huge repercussions. On its face, it is at least as serious as the Skripal poisonings in Salisbury, and look how the West's diplomatic services responded to that!

    Guardian has a video of the alleged Saudi hit team and a van entering the garage area.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,107 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    Guardian has a video of the alleged Saudi hit team and a van entering the garage area.


    Frankly, the Guardian video could be anything... Some planes, some cars, some ppl, the victim in front of a van, a similar van backing into a house, some ppl rolling suitcases... Hardly compelling evidence...


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,237 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    It's disgusting that the west props up the Saudis. Yeah, I get realpolitik but the Saudis are basically the Taliban with money.

    At this point though, they're no longer a stabilising force in the region. MBS is a bit of a nutter and he's seeing how far he can push before there are consequences. The nonsense in Qatar and Yemen is a good example. I didn't support regime-change in Iraq but I'd love to see the end of the house of Saud.


  • Registered Users Posts: 36,022 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    This is a wild political event. Obviously it's disgraceful in every respect.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    TomOnBoard wrote: »
    Frankly, the Guardian video could be anything... Some planes, some cars, some ppl, the victim in front of a van, a similar van backing into a house, some ppl rolling suitcases... Hardly compelling evidence...

    Sure but maybe there are reasons to suspect these men are involved? We only saw tidbits of the evidence so far.

    The Saudis are telling Trump they did not kill him. I hope the audio is released but it might be too upsetting for people to hear?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    This is a wild political event. Obviously it's disgraceful in every respect.

    Is it not surprising do you think Saudis were not involved in crimes before this? They got away with 9/11 and its about time America politicians stood up for what is right.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    They were involved in 9/11 and it was covered up. Someday the truth will come out.

    There plenty of American politicians who want people to know the truth.

    Hmm. There’s some redaction regarding the Saudis but there’s no way they have the expertise to pull off 9/11. Nor would it make sense.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,519 ✭✭✭Dr. Bre


    Most of the hijackers were Saudi. Never forget..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Hmm. There’s some redaction regarding the Saudis but there’s no way they have the expertise to pull off 9/11. Nor would it make sense.

    The connections have been outed by the FBI and CIA retired officials for years now.

    The lead FBI agent who lead a 400 task force investigating 9/11 attacks found substantial evidence linking Saudi Arabia to the attacks on 9/11. The problem is the White house obstructed the investigation and ended the investigation before they got too close to the truth.

    Robert Baer a highly respected CIA officer confirmed on video that Al Qaeda leader was in direct communication with Prince Bandar in the days leading up to 9/11. Money was also been funnelled through his wife's accounts to a Saudi spy who helped the hijackers settle in the United States.

    Prince Bandar was US Saudi Ambassador on 9/11 later because the chief of Saudi Intelligence.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    The connections have been outed by the FBI and CIA retired officials for years now.

    The lead FBI agent who lead a 400 task force investigating 9/11 attacks found substantial evidence linking Saudi Arabia to the attacks on 9/11. The problem is the White house obstructed the investigation and ended the investigation before they got too close to the truth.

    Robert Baer a highly respected CIA officer confirmed on video that Al Qaeda leader was in direct communication with Prince Bandar in the days leading up to 9/11. Money was also been funnelled through his wife's accounts to a Saudi spy who helped the hijackers settle in the United States.

    Prince Bandar was US Saudi Ambassador on 9/11 later because the chief of Saudi Intelligence.

    I see. Never read that particular theory although I have read theories about a different foreign state.


  • Registered Users Posts: 36,022 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Is it not surprising do you think Saudis were not involved in crimes before this? They got away with 9/11 and its about time America politicians stood up for what is right.

    Leaving aside the rest of your 9 / 11 conspiracy theory stuff, it *IS* highly surprising that Saudi Arabia would torture, kill and dismember the body of a high profile journalist in their consulate in Turkey and think they can brazen it out without sanction. It's outrageous. Just as Russia putting two agents on tele to say they were merely tourists going to Sailsbury cathedral and work in the fitness industry is outrageous.

    We're seeing an uptick of activity that is reminiscent of the cold war. There are obviously plenty of potential theories for why that is the case.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    I didn't support regime-change in Iraq but I'd love to see the end of the house of Saud.

    I don't know. I'd be tempted to agree with that but it would depend on who'd replace them. I think they are by no means the most extreme voices in the kingdom


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    Leaving aside the rest of your 9 / 11 conspiracy theory stuff, it *IS* highly surprising that Saudi Arabia would torture, kill and dismember the body of a high profile journalist in their consulate in Turkey and think they can brazen it out without sanction. It's outrageous. Just as Russia putting two agents on tele to say they were merely tourists going to Sailsbury cathedral and work in the fitness industry is outrageous.

    We're seeing an uptick of activity that is reminiscent of the cold war. There are obviously plenty of potential theories for why that is the case.

    It isn’t really any more outrageous than the Yemen war, where western nations are also on side with the Saudis. Except this couldn’t be buried.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,237 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    wexie wrote: »
    I don't know. I'd be tempted to agree with that but it would depend on who'd replace them. I think they are by no means the most extreme voices in the kingdom


    I guess replacing the house of saud is realistically a non-runner. My personal dislike of them would have them wiped out but unfortunately the situation is more complicated than that. The whole country's system revolves around them and they can't simply be replaced.



    The best that could be achieved would be replacing MBS with someone less nutty. Who knows, though. The problem may take care of itself. If his actions cause problems for other members of the family, he might find himself "deposed".


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,237 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    Dr. Bre wrote: »
    Most of the hijackers were Saudi. Never forget..


    And even if they weren't, the Saudis are the source of all that crazy extremist wahabi stuff. They finance schools around the world where they preach their backwards nonsense. Those extremist schools are how their madness spreads. Those schools have no place in western or in any civilised society but, well, money.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Fascinating news article released by Spector.

    Headline What the media aren’t saying about Jamal Khashoggi

    They talk about 9/11

    Just some of it.
    Worse, from the Royals’ point of view, was that Khashoggi had dirt on Saudi links to al Qaeda before the 9/11 attacks. He had befriended Osama bin Laden in the 1980s and 1990s in Afghanistan and Sudan while championing his jihad against the Soviets in dispatches. At that same time, he was employed by the Saudi intelligence services

    Khashoggi was the only non-royal Saudi who had the beef on the Royals’ intimate dealing with al Qaeda in the lead-up to the 9/11 attacks. That would have been crucial if he had escalated his campaign to undermine the crown prince.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/10/death-of-a-dissident-saudi-arabia-and-the-rise-of-the-mobster-state/

    Did the Saudis fear he would expose their darkest secrets to the media?


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I guess replacing the house of saud is realistically a non-runner. My personal dislike of them would have them wiped out but unfortunately the situation is more complicated than that. The whole country's system revolves around them and they can't simply be replaced.

    The best that could be achieved would be replacing MBS with someone less nutty. Who knows, though. The problem may take care of itself. If his actions cause problems for other members of the family, he might find himself "deposed".

    MBS isn't nutty though, or at least whilst he may be bordering nutty, he is also the driving force behind change in Saudi. His biggest problem is the Salafists, who genuinely are nutty.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/27/mohammed-bin-salmans-reforms-disrupting-saudi-arabia-status-quo-ex-google-exec.html

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/saudi-arabias-once-powerful-conservatives-silenced-by-reforms-and-repression/2018/06/04/5332bdec-3dad-11e8-955b-7d2e19b79966_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.a8781b46ba4e


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    If the orders came from MBS then he has really shot himself in the foot. So much for his reformer image aboad now.

    Also they really should have checked the offices for bugs. The apple watch is just a cover story by the Turks to cover up their spying.

    Pretty amateurish by the Arabs. In fairness they are no match for Mossad in these sort of affairs.

    oil price has already been affected.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,087 ✭✭✭dinneenp


    What a farce and charade (from The Guardian)-
    The kingdom agreed in principle on Friday to launch a joint investigation into Khashoggi’s disappearance in conjunction with Turkish police, but a search of the consulate has been delayed by disagreements over the terms.

    Turkish officers wanted to take in solvents to detect traces of blood, while the Saudis wanted a more limited search. It has offered no explanation for his disappearance or of any pictures of him leaving the consulate.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    US President Donald Trump said he believes it is possible that “rogue killers” could be responsible for the disappearance of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi.
    Speaking to journalists outside the White House on Monday about Khashoggi’s disappearance, Trump said: “It sounded to me like maybe these could have been rogue killers. Who knows?”

    Rogue killers? How did they get inside the Saudi Embassy? Is Trump this stupid or is going to cover up?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    glasso wrote: »
    If the orders came from MBS then he has really shot himself in the foot. So much for his reformer image aboad now.

    Also they really should have checked the offices for bugs. The apple watch is just a cover story by the Turks to cover up their spying.

    Pretty amateurish by the Arabs. In fairness they are no match for Mossad in these sort of affairs.

    oil price has already been affected.

    Hardly a reformer. He wanted a war against Qatar, it was leaked. The Secretary of State Tillerson warned them that America might intervene against them. They also kidnapped the Lebanon prime minister, held him for weeks. The French had to come in to stop an international crisis and got him released. Never mind what they are doing in Yemen and Syria.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    US President Donald Trump said he believes it is possible that “rogue killers” could be responsible for the disappearance of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi.
    Speaking to journalists outside the White House on Monday about Khashoggi’s disappearance, Trump said: “It sounded to me like maybe these could have been rogue killers. Who knows?”

    Rogue killers? How did they get inside the Saudi Embassy? Is Trump this stupid or is going to cover up?

    wouldn't be surprised if he glossed over it due to oil price concerns.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Clean up crew spotted before the forensic team showed up. This is a farce.

    CNN around 20 minutes in.




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    Rogue killers? How they get inside the Saudi Embassy? Is Trump did this stupid or is going to cover up?

    I don't think he's actually that stupid, but plenty of his electorate are easily stupid enough to believe it....cause the president says so and he surely wouldn't lie to us would he?


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Clean up crew spotted before the forensic team showed up. This is a farce.

    CNN around 20 minutes in.



    you couldn't make this sh1t up.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    glasso wrote: »

    you couldn't make this sh1t up.

    Well you could but if you did nobody would believe you.

    Quote out of there (allegedly Tom Clancy's although I'm not sure) that truth is stranger than fiction cause fiction has to be believable


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    wexie wrote: »
    Well you could but if you did nobody would believe you.

    Quote out of there (allegedly Tom Clancy's although I'm not sure) that truth is stranger than fiction cause fiction has to be believable

    a bit more cerebral than Tom Clancy.

    Mark Twain


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