Winter Handicaps

kod12 wrote: »

Coming into the winter season what effect
Does this have on the handicaps I was told In the club you can get cut but no increases is this the case?

It really depends on what the conditions are. Usually competitions are non-qualifying for handicap purposes once winter rules are in force (placing everywhere). When that happens, clubs generally apply club only handicap adjustments and these would be downward only, but also generally limited to a couple of strokes.

kod12 wrote: »

Coming into the winter season what effect
Does this have on the handicaps I was told In the club you can get cut but no increases is this the case?

Generally speaking, if there is placing on the Fairways, it'll still count as a qualifying competition for handicap purposes.

As soon as you're lifting the ball in the rough, that's when the qualifying ends, and as mentioned above, you'll only get a winter-cut, rather than a cut to your GUI...unless your handicap secretary gives you a general play/observation cut, which would stand.

Drifter50 wrote: »

I have a similiar question, I was told that as the Winter Competitions are over 15 holes, I have to apply to the office for a revised handicap. How does this work ?

I believe that the 15 holes are re-indexed and your handicap is obviously then pro-rata for the 15 holes. So say the 18th hole is part of the 15 and its index is 18, it will then be re-indexed to 15. Here's an example I made up myself with holes marked where a notional 13 handicapper would have shots.


Hole|1|2|3|4|5|6|7|8|9|10|11|12|13|14|15|16|17|18
Index|2|5|1|7|15|14|4|16|12|3|11|6|13|8|10|17|9|18
Shots|X|X|X|X|||X||X|X|X|X|X|X|X||X|
New Index|2|5|1|7|12|8|4|13|10|3|11|6|-|-|-|14|9|15
New Shots|X|X|X|X||X|X||X|X|X|X|-|-|-||X|


The 13 handicap is recalculated for 15 holes and comes out at 10.8 or 11 when rounded off. I purposely picked an odd handicap because you often get a shot on a different hole in that case. Usually an even number handicap will get shots on the same holes that they would have had for the full 18. In the case above, they get a shot on hole 6 where they wouldn't have had normally. That's explained by the fact that the three omitted holes would have provided an extra shot on each.



I'm sure somebody will be along to tell me this is wrong, but that's my best effort based on my experiences playing 9 hole competitions.

Seve OB wrote: »

but that doesn't explain why he has to apply to the office

Yeah. Depends on what systems they use. The most popular systems have this built in, but it's possible that these aren't in use there.

Never heard of applying to the office for a 15 hole handicap. You get 5/6ths of your handicap and the comp secretary adjusts the card indexes accordingly.

In answer to the OP, you can get a discretionary cut to your GUI at anytime during the winter for exceptional play, regardless of conditions, format, or number of holes. That handicap stands and is permanent.

You can also get adjusted up or down on January 1st by your club committee, on reflection of your performance in all competitions throughout the year. That's end of your adjustment. Again, permanent.

Non permanent is for example you win a 9 hole turkey, next 9 hole you're cut a shot, but just for that format.

prawnsambo wrote: »

Well if you look at my [very interesting ] table above, hole indices will change based on a subset of the normal 18 hole indices. This is necessary because it often happens that the holes dropped could reduce the actual number of shots available to certain handicaps beyond the pro-rata reduction.

interesting one up till a couple of years ago I was a slightly higher handicap and I never get a shot on the 8th hole.....but roll around the winter 14 hole card and now I get a shot... but don't loose any shots anywhere else. of course it is all to do with the holes we are now not playing. but that boils down to rejigging the card and doing a proper job to make a card for the holes in play.

Seve OB wrote: »

interesting one up till a couple of years ago I was a slightly higher handicap and I never get a shot on the 8th hole.....but roll around the winter 14 hole card and now I get a shot... but don't loose any shots anywhere else. of course it is all to do with the holes we are now not playing. but that boils down to rejigging the card and doing a proper job to make a card for the holes in play.

Well you don't normally have to make up a new card if the software does it for you. But sometimes these short course variants aren't built in, as they are often dependant on what holes are actually playable in the winter.

As I said, it's very often the case that the indices match the handicap and there's no problem. I purposely set up my example to show the edge case. So in my example, the player gets a shot on the index 14 hole which he wouldn't normally have. I'd imagine that the club would give him a 14 handicap for the winter and because he's not playing the other three holes he has shots on, it works out fine in stableford competition.

Edit: Just to answer your question above. My club has never (in the time I've been there) played a variant other than the 9 hole one. Which is built in to the software, so requires no extra manipulation. And it correctly calculates the indices and shots per hole. This is how I worked out how the system operates.

GreeBo wrote: »

Work out 5/6 of your handicap.
Whatever that number is, rounded to nearest integer, is the number of shots you have and you take them on the easiest holes that you play.

If your handicap works out at 4 then you take your shots on the four lowest index holes that you play, this could be index 1, 3, 5 & 12 for example.

We have cards for our two 12 hole winter comps, but it can be an uneccessary expense for some clubs, its just winter golf afterall.

Yeah. But for the software to calculate your stableford score properly, this may require a handicap adjustment. Manually always works more intuitively.

We don't use computer over short course. Not sure why not

prawnsambo wrote: »

Why not? It makes the handicap secretary's job a hell of a lot easier if people are entering their scores on the computer. And the handicap is adjusted to iron out any anomalies from the short course.

I'm not following your point about "handicap is adjusted to iron out any anomalies?"

What anomalies? If your handicap is X you get a shot on the X hardest holes...sure this might mean you have shots on holes where you dont when playing 18 holes...but so what?
I'm even more confused by you saying they would give a 13 handicap golfer a handicap of 14?!

Drifter50 wrote: »

Thanks for the responses, appreciate that. Maybe I used the wrong term "apply to the office", I should have said asked the office or the handicap secretary. This is my 3rd year playing and I`m still learning some of the nuances. In our club the 15 holes picked for winter golf left out 10,11 and 17 which seemed a tad random but I guess each club picks their own "winter holes"

They're probably holes that are prone to getting soggy in wet weather.

GreeBo wrote: »

Or is a convenient loop back to the clubhouse thats less than 18

Well 18 is still playing, so one would assume that it's near the club house.

GreeBo wrote: »

Less than 18 holes, not specifically the 18th hole.

The OP said which holes were not in play. He said 10, 11 and 17. Which means 18 is in play.