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Clerical Positions in the Civil and Public Service

13567…289

Comments

  • #62
    thisNthat
    Registered Users Posts: 298 ✭✭thisNthat


    RoadhouseBlues wrote: »
    Hi folks. I was a TCO two years ago. It was a 3 month contract. So I decided to submit my application for this as it would be great for me to get a full time position. However I have a huge problem. I never did the leaving cert. Does that mean I will not be considered....It says on the information "a good standard of education". I did the Junior Cert but then did computer training and had experience working in other places before the TCO contract.

    To be honest, these kind of jobs are perfectly suitable for people like yourself,
    People willing to work and who have a basic education.
    You have as much chance as anyone.
    Don't listen to the bull**** that you need a Degree (You Don't),
    if you can basically read and write then this job is for you and good luck to ya.


  • #63
    space2ground1
    Registered Users Posts: 501 ✭✭✭space2ground1


    Would a person with a degree and financial services experience, but no job ops in that field where we live, have a chance to work the way up the ladder from CO?


  • #64
    ezra_pound
    Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭ezra_pound


    space2ground1 wrote: »
    Would a person with a degree and financial services experience, but no job ops in that field where we live, have a chance to work the way up the ladder from CO?

    Yes of course. Remember that you must be in your current grade for over two years before you apply for internal promotion. At the moment that's not an issue because there's pretty much no promotions but that may start to change shortly.


  • #65
    ezra_pound
    Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭ezra_pound


    space2ground1 wrote: »
    Would a person with a degree and financial services experience, but no job ops in that field where we live, have a chance to work the way up the ladder from CO?

    Internal promotions in the PS and cs are mainly competency based interviews. Chances are your experience in fs will give good examples of how you can demonstrate necessary competencies.

    Just to remind you though that competition is going to be fierce. There will be a lot of cos looking for promotion when the time comes.


  • #66
    RoadhouseBlues
    Closed Accounts Posts: 631 ✭✭✭RoadhouseBlues


    thisNthat wrote: »
    To be honest, these kind of jobs are perfectly suitable for people like yourself,
    People willing to work and who have a basic education.
    You have as much chance as anyone.
    Don't listen to the bull**** that you need a Degree (You Don't),
    if you can basically read and write then this job is for you and good luck to ya.

    Cheers. I can only try. I'm hoping when it wasn't an issue for the tco position, then it might not be for this as well. I'd say there will be huge numbers applying though. Best of luck to everyone.


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  • #67
    RobbingBandit
    Registered Users Posts: 18,073 ✭✭✭✭RobbingBandit


    Are they equal opportunity employers, I have a few health issues etc, don't need to go into details here I would imagine.


  • #68
    barneystinson
    Registered Users Posts: 4,683 ✭✭✭barneystinson


    ezra_pound wrote: »
    Yes of course. Remember that you must be in your current grade for over two years before you apply for internal promotion. At the moment that's not an issue because there's pretty much no promotions but that may start to change shortly.

    At the moment where I work there are confined competitions for promotions to PO, AP and EO, and earlier this year there was a competition for HEO. And in 2 years there'll be the same again.


  • #69
    DesertCreat_15
    Registered Users Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭DesertCreat_15


    RobbingBandit wrote: »
    Are they equal opportunity employers, I have a few health issues etc, don't need to go into details here I would imagine.

    You will need to declare all your health issues in writing at the interview stage.


  • #70
    Birneybau
    Registered Users Posts: 10,217 ✭✭✭✭Birneybau


    RobbingBandit wrote: »
    Are they equal opportunity employers, I have a few health issues etc, don't need to go into details here I would imagine.

    Big time, from a long enough service civil servant.


  • #71
    RobbingBandit
    Registered Users Posts: 18,073 ✭✭✭✭RobbingBandit


    Birneybau wrote: »
    Big time, from a long enough service civil servant.

    Didn't disclose at the last stage 7 years ago as I had only just been diagnosed a few weeks before the interview with a number of issues. Will make sure I do disclose this time round if I get that far.


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  • #72
    InReality
    Registered Users Posts: 1,374 ✭✭✭InReality


    redout wrote: »
    I really couldn't say. Certainly in the past the entire government/civil service was rife with cronyism. Many would argue that it still is, especially in fields such as foreign affairs and third secretary i.e. diplomat positions. People believe that a lot of government jobs are 'gone' before they are even advertised.

    Eh no.You have to sit in an exam with a few thousand people before you can do an interview for those civil positions . And its been that way for years back to 80's at least.


  • #73
    redout
    Registered Users Posts: 11,435 ✭✭✭✭redout


    InReality wrote: »
    Eh no.You have to sit in an exam with a few thousand people before you can do an interview for those civil positions . And its been that way for years back to 80's at least.

    If you think that cronyism hasn't existed in the Irish government/civil service since the foundation of the state then you are deluded.


  • #74
    InReality
    Registered Users Posts: 1,374 ✭✭✭InReality


    redout wrote: »
    If you think that cronyism hasn't existed in the Irish government/civil service since the foundation of the state then you are deluded.

    Yes I would be.


  • #75
    redout
    Registered Users Posts: 11,435 ✭✭✭✭redout


    InReality wrote: »
    Yes I would be.

    Well, if the shoe fits.......


  • #76
    RobbingBandit
    Registered Users Posts: 18,073 ✭✭✭✭RobbingBandit


    redout wrote: »
    Well, if the shoe fits you get to marry that bigamist Prince Charming

    FYP, it's too late in the night for nonsense now isn't it. :)


  • #77
    redout
    Registered Users Posts: 11,435 ✭✭✭✭redout


    RobbingBandit wrote: »
    FYP, it's too late in the night for nonsense now isn't it. :)

    Yeah, I agree.


  • #78
    InReality
    Registered Users Posts: 1,374 ✭✭✭InReality


    redout wrote: »
    Well, if the shoe fits.......

    Of course I never said that.
    :P


  • #79
    barneystinson
    Registered Users Posts: 4,683 ✭✭✭barneystinson


    redout wrote: »
    If you think that cronyism hasn't existed in the Irish government/civil service since the foundation of the state then you are deluded.

    Can you explain how you think cronyism is going to apply here?


  • #80
    nukie1978
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40 ✭nukie1978


    ezra_pound wrote: »
    Yes of course. Remember that you must be in your current grade for over two years before you apply for internal promotion. At the moment that's not an issue because there's pretty much no promotions but that may start to change shortly.

    Not any more— there was a circular went around in February. You need two years in the civil service total, not in your current grade— the circular specifically mentioned that this included temporary service, so someone with a year or more as a TCO could apply for promotion as soon as they were out of their probationary year. Also, you can apply for any promotion opportunity, not just the next grade up, which was changed in the same circular.

    Current civil servants can also apply for external competitions on a level playing field with all external applicants, which gives you another bite of the cherry as far as promotion is concerned.


  • #81
    ezra_pound
    Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭ezra_pound


    redout wrote: »
    If you think that cronyism hasn't existed in the Irish government/civil service since the foundation of the state then you are deluded.

    What do you mean by government/civil service?

    There has been cronyism in judicial appointments (in so far as they have been appointed on account of political patronage) and to public sector boards such as crc but the civil service is not known for crony appointments. By government do you mean the executive? Because they are appointed by the taoiseach as he deems fit.

    Civil servants are appointed in a transparent and independent manner. Suggesting gross cronyism is just smokey pub wisdom.


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  • #82
    redout
    Registered Users Posts: 11,435 ✭✭✭✭redout


    ezra_pound wrote: »
    What do you mean by government/civil service?

    There has been cronyism in judicial appointments (in so far as they have been appointed on account of political patronage) and to public sector boards such as crc but the civil service is not known for crony appointments. By government do you mean the executive? Because they are appointed by the taoiseach as he deems fit.

    Civil servants are appointed in a transparent and independent manner. Suggesting gross cronyism is just smokey pub wisdom.
    barneystinson wrote: »
    Can you explain how you think cronyism is going to apply here?

    I never said that it would apply. I said:
    redout wrote: »
    I really couldn't say. Certainly in the past the entire government/civil service was rife with cronyism. Many would argue that it still is...

    but whilst we are on the subject, there was an internal competition run in a government department recently (I'm not going into specifics on a public forum, those that work in civil service can make their own enquiries to confirm) were it was discovered that a small number of staff had been in possession of an aptitude test. Certain persons were admonished and some people were made to re-sit tests after an investigation was carried out. Take from that what you will, many involved claimed that those persons were directly aided by their supervisors. This was an internal civil service competition.


  • #83
    barneystinson
    Registered Users Posts: 4,683 ✭✭✭barneystinson


    redout wrote: »
    I never said that it would apply. I said:



    but whilst we are on the subject, there was an internal competition run in a government department recently (I'm not going into specifics on a public forum, those that work in civil service can make their own enquiries to confirm) were it was discovered that a small number of staff had been in possession of an aptitude test. Certain persons were admonished and some people were made to re-sit tests after an investigation was carried out. Take from that what you will, many involved claimed that those persons were directly aided by their supervisors. This was an internal civil service competition.

    That's why there's 2 rounds of testing - it's no good being fed the first one, as you still have to produce the same/similar result on an equivalent but different test again later.

    Anyway, I reckon I know exactly what competition you're talking about and your facts are incorrect - but even if they're right it only goes to prove that the process is robust... the people who stood to benefit had to re-sit the test.

    So, with respect you're talking out your hole; you should also consider the fact it's very insulting to thousands of people who have gone through these very competitive recruitment processes to have their appointment called into question. I'm not saying the process is perfect, the best person may not always get the job, but in my experience it is transparent and fair.

    And here's what you also said:
    redout wrote: »
    If you think that cronyism hasn't existed in the Irish government/civil service since the foundation of the state then you are deluded.
    this clearly implies you think it still exists, and you can't / don't distinguish between the Government (political) and the civil service (administration)... so don't be trying to duck out of what you said! ;)


  • #84
    ezra_pound
    Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭ezra_pound


    redout wrote: »
    If you think that cronyism hasn't existed in the Irish government/civil service since the foundation of the state then you are deluded.

    I must be deluded.

    Tell us more of this cronyism, please.


  • #85
    redout
    Registered Users Posts: 11,435 ✭✭✭✭redout


    barneystinson wrote: »
    That's why there's 2 rounds of testing - it's no good being fed the first one, as you still have to produce the same/similar result on an equivalent but different test again later.

    Anyway, I reckon I know exactly what competition you're talking about and your facts are incorrect - but even if they're right it only goes to prove that the process is robust... the people who stood to benefit had to re-sit the test.
    First off, there was no second stage of testing involved in this particular competition. So your 'facts' are incorrect. You obviously do not know what competition I am referring to as you claim above.

    barneystinson wrote: »
    So, with respect you're talking out your hole; you should also consider the fact it's very insulting to thousands of people who have gone through these very competitive recruitment processes to have their appointment called into question. I'm not saying the process is perfect, the best person may not always get the job, but in my experience it is transparent and fair.

    With respect, talking through my hole? LoL. I haven't called any persons appointment into question. I stated that cronyism has existed in the past and gave a recent example of what could be interpreted as such. I have no doubt that the overwhelming majority of persons employed are their on merit.
    barneystinson wrote: »
    And here's what you also said: this clearly implies you think it still exists, and you can't / don't distinguish between the Government (political) and the civil service (administration)... so don't be trying to duck out of what you said!

    Clearly your powers of deduction require some fine tuning. The user (WhiteWalls) asked 'Would there be an element to 'who you know' about this?' in reference to the advertised clerical officer positions to which I replied 'I really couldn't say'. The user (InReality) stated that you have to do an exam before an interview and that it had been that way since the 80s. My response to him which you have quoted above is in respect to the 80s reference which he made when I do believe that cronyism was taking place at both government and the civil service.


  • #86
    barneystinson
    Registered Users Posts: 4,683 ✭✭✭barneystinson


    redout wrote: »
    First off, there was no second stage of testing involved in this particular competition. So your 'facts' are incorrect. You obviously do not know what competition I am referring to as you claim above.

    I know my facts. Maybe it's not the same comp, who knows. But if they're different comps it further proves the point, the process is administered fairly by those charged with administering it. What you're talking about isn't cronyism anyway, it's an attempt to cheat on an aptitude test just to get an interview.


  • #87
    barneystinson
    Registered Users Posts: 4,683 ✭✭✭barneystinson


    redout wrote: »
    With respect, talking through my hole? LoL. I haven't called any persons appointment into question. I stated that cronyism has existed in the past and gave a recent example of what could be interpreted as such. I have no doubt that the overwhelming majority of persons employed are their on merit.

    Clearly your powers of deduction require some fine tuning. The user (WhiteWalls) asked 'Would there be an element to 'who you know' about this?' in reference to the advertised clerical officer positions to which I replied 'I really couldn't say'. The user (InReality) stated that you have to do an exam before an interview and that it had been that way since the 80s. My response to him which you have quoted above is in respect to the 80s reference which he made when I do believe that cronyism was taking place at both government and the civil service.

    You need to go and learn how to use proper language, because that's not the meaning of what you said. But it's ok now because you've clarified that you didnt say what mean / mean what you said.


  • #88
    barneystinson
    Registered Users Posts: 4,683 ✭✭✭barneystinson


    redout wrote: »
    If you think that cronyism hasn't existed in the Irish government/civil service since the foundation of the state then you are deluded.

    This can only mean that a person who isn't deluded, would believe cronyism HAS EXISTED SINCE the foundation of the State. You don't suggest it has stopped / ceased.


  • #89
    redout
    Registered Users Posts: 11,435 ✭✭✭✭redout


    barneystinson wrote: »
    I know my facts. Maybe it's not the same comp, who knows. But if they're different comps it further proves the point, the process is administered fairly by those charged with administering it. What you're talking about isn't cronyism anyway, it's an attempt to cheat on an aptitude test just to get an interview.

    It could be interpreted as cronyism though is what I said. It was claimed the persons in receipt of the aptitude test were aided by supervisors who would have then had an input into the awarding of positions.

    barneystinson wrote: »
    This can only mean that a person who isn't deluded, would believe cronyism HAS EXISTED SINCE the foundation of the State. You don't suggest it has stopped / ceased.

    Nobody can state that definitively, though I would say it would be naive to believe it has been eradicated completely considering the amount of it that has taken place across Irish society as a whole.


  • #90
    ezra_pound
    Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭ezra_pound


    redout wrote: »
    First off, there was no second stage of testing involved in this particular competition. So your 'facts' are incorrect. You obviously do not know what competition I am referring to as you claim above.




    With respect, talking through my hole? LoL. I haven't called any persons appointment into question. I stated that cronyism has existed in the past and gave a recent example of what could be interpreted as such. I have no doubt that the overwhelming majority of persons employed are their on merit.



    Clearly your powers of deduction require some fine tuning. The user (WhiteWalls) asked 'Would there be an element to 'who you know' about this?' in reference to the advertised clerical officer positions to which I replied 'I really couldn't say'. The user (InReality) stated that you have to do an exam before an interview and that it had been that way since the 80s. My response to him which you have quoted above is in respect to the 80s reference which he made when I do believe that cronyism was taking place at both government and the civil service.

    I believe that all stupid people should believe something.

    The fact that you believe that cronyism existed before the 80s in cs appointments doesn't mean that you can imply that it's an objective fact that is to be accepted at large because there is no evidence and you are making it up.

    Some evidence of this cronyism would be nice.

    If not maybe you could admit that you are talking through your... you know what.


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  • #91
    ezra_pound
    Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭ezra_pound


    redout wrote: »
    It could be interpreted as cronyism though is what I said. It was claimed the persons in receipt of the aptitude test were aided by supervisors who would have then had an input into the awarding of positions.




    Nobody can state that definitively, though I would say it would be naive to believe it has been eradicated completely considering the amount of it that has taken place across Irish society as a whole.

    But you still haven't established that it ever existed in the cs. OK I'll accept you point with reference to "across Irish society as a whole". It's a strawman argument to draw from that that it ever existed in cs appointments. You are taking through your arse seriously.

    Your anecdotal story is really just embarrassing. As the other poster pointed out anyone who has applied for any new entry position since 2012 will know what the actual story you were told is. Someone was obviously just trying to explain the new testing system to you. You clearly didn't understand what you were being told and made up the anecdote to suit your point.

    The word deluded comes to mind.


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