Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Rugby 101 - Know your rucks from your mauls!

1356723

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 685 ✭✭✭PaddyCar


    Why does the ref sometimes count out during a maul? Often hear them shouting one, two etc. Thanks


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    What are the rules on juggling? If someone throws you a pass can you punch it, volleyball style, in the air and run and catch it?
    Would that not count as a knock on unless you punched it backwards?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,732 ✭✭✭ShatterProof


    PaddyCar wrote: »
    Why does the ref sometimes count out during a maul? Often hear them shouting one, two etc. Thanks

    He counts the number of times the team in possession stops moving.
    On the second time he'll tell them to use it. (Get it out of maul)
    If they don't use it and they stop again the other team is given possession


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,732 ✭✭✭ShatterProof


    Stheno wrote: »
    Would that not count as a knock on unless you punched it backwards?

    A knock on is only a knock on once the ball hits the ground or another player. If you regather before either you can play on.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,893 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    What are the rules on juggling? If someone throws you a pass can you punch it, volleyball style, in the air and run and catch it?

    You can't deliberately throw or punch or move the ball forward from the hand. All are penalty offences. I


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    What are the rules on juggling? If someone throws you a pass can you punch it, volleyball style, in the air and run and catch it?
    Cant deliberately move the ball forward like that.. Penalty against
    PaddyCar wrote: »
    Why does the ref sometimes count out during a maul? Often hear them shouting one, two etc. Thanks
    Use or lose it
    Teams only have a limited number of chances to get a maul moving forward.
    When a maul stops moving forward it may start moving forward again providing it does so within 5 seconds. If the maul stops moving forward a second time and if the ball is being moved and the referee can see it, a reasonable time is allowed for the ball to emerge. If it does not emerge within a reasonable time, a scrum is ordered.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,143 ✭✭✭locum-motion


    What are the rules on juggling? If someone throws you a pass can you punch it, volleyball style, in the air and run and catch it?
    You can't deliberately throw or punch or move the ball forward from the hand. All are penalty offences. I
    Cant deliberately move the ball forward like that.. Penalty against
    ...

    Can't deliberately do it, fair enough.
    But if you're stretching out to attempt an interception and don't quite make it, it most certainly is OK if you catch your own 'knock-on' before it hits the ground.
    In fact, you can keep 'knocking it on' the whole way down the pitch. As long as you're not actually trying to, and that the ball doesn't hit the ground or another player!


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Can't deliberately do it, fair enough.
    But if you're stretching out to attempt an interception and don't quite make it, it most certainly is OK if you catch your own 'knock-on' before it hits the ground.
    In fact, you can keep 'knocking it on' the whole way down the pitch. As long as you're not actually trying to, and that the ball doesn't hit the ground or another player!
    Of course you can do that ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    #JuggleGate


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,986 ✭✭✭philstar


    i saw in one game

    a player being pulled into touch by his shirt..is this allowed??


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 12,893 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    philstar wrote: »
    i saw in one game

    a player being pulled into touch by his shirt..is this allowed??

    Course it is allowed. It's not tag rugby you know :pac:


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,986 ✭✭✭philstar


    ^^^^

    but he got him by the collar, nearly choked the guy


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,460 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    philstar wrote: »
    ^^^^

    but he got him by the collar, nearly choked the guy

    If that was the same match I'm thinking of, he didn't, he pulled the arm part of his shirt, then the in touch player tried to suggest to the ref that he grabbed around the collar. There was a clear replay to show it was fine


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    IF he did get him by the collar then it would be a penalty or sinbin as its a high tackle.

    But the one in the Italy canada game wasn't that high.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,986 ✭✭✭philstar


    MJohnston wrote: »
    If that was the same match I'm thinking of, he didn't, he pulled the arm part of his shirt, then the in touch player tried to suggest to the ref that he grabbed around the collar. There was a clear replay to show it was fine

    it was the Georgia Argentina match


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,460 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    philstar wrote: »
    it was the Georgia Argentina match

    Aye that's the one I was thinking of, because my gf asked me at the time why it wasn't penalised, and then the replay came on and it was clear it wasn't dangerous.


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 34,941 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    I was sure I read somewhere that the lineout their did not need to be completely straight just as long as it was in the corridor after travelling five metres but I can't find it again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,902 ✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    At the suggestion of others in the match thread, here's my suggestion for law adjustment. Since it has been pointed out how task saturated most refs are nowadays, they should put some more refs on the field, similar to the NFL. You would have the main ref who makes the final decision on the pitch. Then you could have on field assistants who are tasked with watching different areas. So the head ref keeps track of the immediate action, say ruck, maul etc. The assistants monitor the offside line, watch the defense etc. At scrum time, this could allow for proper scrutiny of the action, with specific areas for each ref to watch.

    I would also put a review booth on the sideline for the ref to watch tmo replays in, rather than the big screen in the stadium. This would allow him to see with better fidelity what is being reviewed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    At the suggestion of others in the match thread, here's my suggestion for law adjustment. Since it has been pointed out how task saturated most refs are nowadays, they should put some more refs on the field, similar to the NFL. You would have the main ref who makes the final decision on the pitch. Then you could have on field assistants who are tasked with watching different areas. So the head ref keeps track of the immediate action, say ruck, maul etc. The assistants monitor the offside line, watch the defense etc. At scrum time, this could allow for proper scrutiny of the action, with specific areas for each ref to watch.

    I would also put a review booth on the sideline for the ref to watch tmo replays in, rather than the big screen in the stadium. This would allow him to see with better fidelity what is being reviewed.
    We dont need more referees on the pitch. All the officials 1-5 are micced up and the assistants referees who run the side lines are always communicating with the referee with all manners of things from ruck offside line/maul/scrum.
    All of what you say about assistants already happens
    We dont need a review booth on the sideline. The big screen is enough and if referee isnt happy with big screen he can go TMO


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,902 ✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    We dont need more referees on the pitch. All the officials 1-5 are micced up and the assistants referees who run the side lines are always communicating with the referee with all manners of things from ruck offside line/maul/scrum.
    All of what you say about assistants already happens
    We dont need a review booth on the sideline. The big screen is enough and if referee isnt happy with big screen he can go TMO

    Look at everything that gets missed currently with that set up though. touch judges don't police things like the offside line well, or call scrum infringements on a regular basis. They are perhaps supposed to but there's no consistency there.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Look at everything that gets missed currently with that set up though. touch judges don't police things like the offside line well, or call scrum infringements on a regular basis. They are perhaps supposed to but there's no consistency there.
    How do you know the assistants dont call decisions on a regular basis. The referee doesnt indicate who calls the decision but the officials are all micced up and Ar's regularly call issues around offside/scrum


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,902 ✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    How do you know the assistants dont call decisions on a regular basis. The referee doesnt indicate who calls the decision but the officials are all micced up and Ar's regularly call issues around offside/scrum

    It's not so much who is making the calls, as the calls that aren't made. The game would be better with things like the offside line being policed properly, cleaner rucks, proper scrums. Any effort to accomplish that should be encouraged imo.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    It's not so much who is making the calls, as the calls that aren't made. The game would be better with things like the offside line being policed properly, cleaner rucks, proper scrums. Any effort to accomplish that should be encouraged imo.
    What exactly is a proper scrum? Cleaner rucks?
    You are looking for the impossible. There is 10+ offences that are in the laws book in the section covering the ruck. There is much more offences that can also be penalized at the breakdown.


  • Subscribers Posts: 40,722 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    It's not so much who is making the calls, as the calls that aren't made. The game would be better with things like the offside line being policed properly, cleaner rucks, proper scrums. Any effort to accomplish that should be encouraged imo.

    If every infringement is called there wouldn't be a game. Good refs know which infringements are significant and which aren't.

    I can guarantee that at the bottom of every ruck and maul there are numerous laws broken ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,902 ✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    What exactly is a proper scrum? Cleaner rucks?
    You are looking for the impossible. There is 10+ offences that are in the laws book in the section covering the ruck. There is much more offences that can also be penalized at the breakdown.

    By proper scrum, I would consider feeding, binding, driving at proper angels, food up before the feed. Cleaner rucks to include no hands on the deck, entering through the gate, not clearing out players beyond the ruck etc. All things that don't get called in every game on a regular basis.

    Why is it considered impossible, that is a crazy statement. If they are not capable of being enforced, they shouldn't be rules. American football has a rulebook that puts rugby to shame, yet they manage to enforce it effectively, with every effort made towards accuracy. Having extra refs is a large part of that. If one ref, with two assistants, can't enforce the laws, then that would suggest something needs to be done to change that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,902 ✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    If every infringement is called there wouldn't be a game. Good refs know which infringements are significant and which aren't.

    I can guarantee that at the bottom of every ruck and maul there are numerous laws broken ;)

    We say that, but surely if refs were going to call infringements properly, then teams would stop cheating so much and you would have a much cleaner and better flowing game.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    By proper scrum, I would consider feeding, binding, driving at proper angels, food up before the feed. Cleaner rucks to include no hands on the deck, entering through the gate, not clearing out players beyond the ruck etc. All things that don't get called in every game on a regular basis.

    Why is it considered impossible, that is a crazy statement. If they are not capable of being enforced, they shouldn't be rules. American football has a rulebook that puts rugby to shame, yet they manage to enforce it effectively, with every effort made towards accuracy. Having extra refs is a large part of that. If one ref, with two assistants, can't enforce the laws, then that would suggest something needs to be done to change that.
    You have never refereed a game. If you were to penalize much more the game and sport would suffer. The reason things like that are not called in every games as it is all about materiality to the game/timing etc and there is no rules in the sport. There is Laws. They dont have to be strictly enforced. The Laws are there to be interpreted by the match officials. Each referee will interpret the laws differently. We dont need extra referees as they will have different interpretations and by having extra officials we would be making the sport much more difficult for people to watch especially beginners to the sport


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,902 ✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    You have never refereed a game. If you were to penalize much more the game and sport would suffer. The reason things like that are not called in every games as it is all about materiality to the game/timing etc and there is no rules in the sport. There is Laws. They dont have to be strictly enforced. The Laws are there to be interpreted by the match officials. Each referee will interpret the laws differently. We dont need extra referees as they will have different interpretations and by having extra officials we would be making the sport much more difficult for people to watch especially beginners to the sport

    That's where I would disagree with you. I think right now the situation would be very confusing for a beginner watching for the first time. Say you tell him a scrum half has to feed the ball straight at each scrum, yet he sees that not called all game. He would right ask why that is, especially if a ref decides to arbitrarily call it once. Likewise with something like hands on the deck.

    A ref should have discretion on whether he considers if an act has violated a law,not whether he should call offenses that he sees.


  • Subscribers Posts: 40,722 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    That's where I would disagree with you. I think right now the situation would be very confusing for a beginner watching for the first time. Say you tell him a scrum half has to feed the ball straight at each scrum, yet he sees that not called all game. He would right ask why that is, especially if a ref decides to arbitrarily call it once. Likewise with something like hands on the deck.

    A ref should have discretion on whether he considers if an act has violated a law,not whether he should call offenses that he sees.

    A crooked feed is one deliberately into the second row. If it goes in the channel and is hooked properly no problem. People have a bee in their bonnet if a ball is fed in a few degrees off plumb


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    That's where I would disagree with you. I think right now the situation would be very confusing for a beginner watching for the first time. Say you tell him a scrum half has to feed the ball straight at each scrum, yet he sees that not called all game. He would right ask why that is, especially if a ref decides to arbitrarily call it once. Likewise with something like hands on the deck.

    A ref should have discretion on whether he considers if an act has violated a law,not whether he should call offenses that he sees.
    But if you penalize all infringements of the law you have too many penalties and that will hurt viewing numbers/attracting beginners etc.
    One of the main laws a referee can use is advantage and thats used a lot. All offences are penalized depending on context within the game/timing etc


Advertisement