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Should another Garda Commissioner resign?

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 28,040 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Why not appoint a uk originated commissioner and management team to an Garda siochana.

    A fresh start, inject some moral, some good practise, and fund them to change the things they need to change.

    Then we can herd unicorns......

    Didn't they try that before, didn't end well.


  • Registered Users Posts: 66,305 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Boggy Turf wrote: »
    You should watch Vincent Brown.

    He lays it out in black and white why O'Sullivan should be long gone.

    I did and T. Dooley. Can't understand FF not pulling the trigger, unless they are afraid or know of some blowback coming for them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    I think Enda should step aside now and FG elect a new leader. Commissioner O Sullivan should also step aside, whilst the allegations are looked at. FF are waiting in the long grass for the opportunity to spring an election with them high in the polls. The short term memory of the electorate, shorter than that of a goldfish. I don't buy this stuff about backing the Commissioner, just because she refutes the claims. It's more about opportunism for FF and Commissioner O Sullivan is just a pawn to buy time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,065 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    With the Tribunal being broadcast, a first, things could develop a momentum of their own.
    The public will be able to judge for themselves.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    Water John wrote: »
    With the Tribunal being broadcast, a first, things could develop a momentum of their own.
    The public will be able to judge for themselves.

    Not sure if the whole thing is going to be broadcast though is it?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,065 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Don't know, but the Chairman's opening statement was really impressive.
    Clear, we at this stage know what is permissable at a Tribunal. He's going to get on with it.
    Hope he's allowed set a template for future ones.
    Also, anyone telling porkies or disrupting the Tribunal will be frowned on severely.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    Water John wrote: »
    Don't know, but the Chairman's opening statement was really impressive.
    Clear, we at this stage know what is permissable at a Tribunal. He's going to get on with it.
    Hope he's allowed set a template for future ones.
    Also, anyone telling porkies or disrupting the Tribunal will be frowned on severely.

    Yes and hopefully there won't be the merry go round of answering everything apart from the actual question put to them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,065 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Noreen Feehily seems to be losing her patience with the Commissioner.
    'Can you produce a thing called a Report, with a start and a finish'.

    Seriously unhappy with some info being supplied at 8.30 pm last night.
    Then the porkie saying she did not think it was coming up at today's meeting.
    Feehily having none of it.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,412 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Context?


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,065 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    The Commissioner met the Policing Authority in public today.
    Some relevant docs arrived with Noreen Feehily at 8.30pm last night.

    There was a disagreement between O'Sullivan and Feehily about what was on the agenda. Feehily said O'Sullivan was well aware two weeks ago.
    The interim report on Breath Testing simply stated was was going to be done.
    Feehily was not impressed.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,843 ✭✭✭kevthegaff


    A famous TD who was asking questions of the gardai, was then breathalysed outside dail bar but Luckily under limit. Everyone involved in this case will be intimadated until no further investigation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 164 ✭✭The Moleman


    kevthegaff wrote: »
    A famous TD who was asking questions of the gardai, was then breathalysed outside dail bar but Luckily under limit. Everyone involved in this case will be intimadated until no further investigation.

    Was he in a car with the intention of driving?

    Not that I'd condone intimidation, but he shouldn't be driving if he had been drinking.

    "Luckily" makes it sound like you are glad he got away with it as opposed to being glad he wasn't breaking the law.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,172 ✭✭✭emo72


    Yes. She should go. Not knowing the difference between a 5 minute meeting and a 2 hour meeting. And if she really thought the meeting only lasted 5 minutes she is incompetent. The alternative is she was trying to mislead. She's finished.


  • Registered Users Posts: 164 ✭✭The Moleman


    I have been away for a few weeks and was trying to catch up on these shenanigans with the the Gardaí and Templemore accounts.

    What I can't find is how and when the "financial irregularties" were first made public.

    Is this something that has been known about for a while and was the reason for the PAC last week or was it discovered during those committee meetings?

    Did the civilian department heads within the Gardaí also keep quiet about the accounts or are they the ones who who brought this into the light?


  • Registered Users Posts: 164 ✭✭The Moleman


    emo72 wrote: »
    Yes. She should go. Not knowing the difference between a 5 minute meeting and a 2 hour meeting. And if she really thought the meeting only lasted 5 minutes she is incompetent. The alternative is she was trying to mislead. She's finished.

    Everyone I know seems to have this trouble too.

    "I have been ages" or "been on the phone for an hour" when that is nothing close to the truth :P


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,172 ✭✭✭emo72


    Everyone I know seems to have this trouble too.

    "I have been ages" or "been on the phone for an hour" when that is nothing close to the truth :P

    Yeah... But... They're your friends. Nothings at stake there. Unless your friend is a commissioner?

    I know your joking!


  • Registered Users Posts: 164 ✭✭The Moleman


    emo72 wrote: »
    Yeah... But... They're your friends. Nothings at stake there. Unless your friend is a commissioner?

    I know your joking!

    I did mean it in jest, but it is true.

    And not just friends - most Irish people do it. Can't tell the truth about time at all.

    What about the other question? I can't for the life of me figure out why the civilian management aren't getting racked over the coals too? Why didn't they come forward sooner?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 71 ✭✭IrishSea


    Will Noreen be allowed stay in her position after this latest breaking scandal?

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/revealed-gardai-tapped-the-phones-of-innocent-people-35709010.html


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    IrishSea wrote:
    Will Noreen be allowed stay in her position after this latest breaking scandal?


    I actually don't think this is a scandal. Gardai tap phones, sometimes the people are innocent but they need to cast a wide net.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 71 ✭✭IrishSea


    pilly wrote: »
    I actually don't think this is a scandal. Gardai tap phones, sometimes the people are innocent but they need to cast a wide net.

    A police force spying on citizens by tapping their phones isn't a scandal?
    I'd reckon you're the only person in the whole country who thinks that.
    So, you'd have no problem with a Garda listening in and recording your conversations with your wife, your bank manager, your doctor etc etc?

    In a week where it's reported that a mentally unwell woman committed suicide after a copper posted video of her, during one of her breakdowns, walking naked down O'Connell Street.

    There's also the not small matter of the financial irregularities in Templemore, where it seems that a slush fund was being run for the 'elites' in AGS.

    Our police force is corrupt, it needs to be torn asunder and reformed, much like the corrupt RUC was in The North.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    IrishSea wrote:
    A police force spying on citizens by tapping their phones isn't a scandal? I'd reckon you're the only person in the whole country who thinks that. So, you'd have no problem with a Garda listening in and recording your conversations with your wife, your bank manager, your doctor etc etc?


    I agree all the other issues are disgraceful I just don't think this one is.

    I can see why they might need to do it is all I'm saying. To catch serious criminals.

    And no I would have no problem with it, I'm sure they'd be bored to death listening to my conversations.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 71 ✭✭IrishSea


    pilly wrote: »
    I agree all the other issues are disgraceful I just don't think this one is.

    I can see why they might need to do it is all I'm saying. To catch serious criminals.

    And no I would have no problem with it, I'm sure they'd be bored to death listening to my conversations.

    Only, a lot of this spying was on innocent people with no link to criminality.

    Fair enough that you have no problem on coppers listening in to your private business, most people would have serious issues with that, especially when the coppers start gossip and rumours about you in your local area.

    If you're unfortunate enough to have taken issue with a copper, they might even contact their friends in Tulsa and open a file with child sex abuse allegations against you in it!


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,065 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    just look at the issue of phone tapping in the USA. FBI needs to go to a special court and make the case for eaves dropping. Also, the nondisclosure of USA citizens when foreign agents are being listened.
    Phone tapping is a big deal. It's an infringement of anyone's, right to privacy. I'ts a no no, without specific authorisation.

    NOS resigning at this stage, is not a solution.
    The AGS, needs a complete overhaul, a la PSNI.
    The correct people with the skills, are readily available.
    I would hope the change of Taoiseach, would give the opportunity to reset.
    But I'm doubtful, that it will be done.

    With FF casting doubt on allowing Frances be renominated as MOJ, do FG want to go to the country on the AGS record? Maybe that's the choice that will cause the change.


  • Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭jonsnow


    Everyone I know seems to have this trouble too.

    "I have been ages" or "been on the phone for an hour" when that is nothing close to the truth :P

    When a seasoned detective and the head of the national security agency states when reporting to the official government authority that monitors it that at a meeting that lasted nearly two and a half hours when allegations of financial irregularities and possible embezzlement amounting to 12 million euros is first brought to her attention that it was a brief 5 minute chat this is not the same as your mate casually saying to his mam that he was ages on the phone with his girlfriend or whatever.


  • Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭jonsnow


    The way to fix the Gardai is actually blindingly simple and is for the first time being considered in the most recent review. It is not easy but it is simple. Hive off the national security function from the gardai.

    Create a domestic intelligence agency - staffed by military, gardai, Revenue, CAB,customs, language experts etc. Appoint a senior military officer with a background in MI or a Crime and Sec garda to run it. It should have the authority to call on other agaencies resources when necessary ie. garda helicopter, access to all garda or revenue files. Have it report to a specific cabinet minister or better yet a cross-party secret committee ala USA etc.

    Then as you no longer need an Irish national running the regular gardai simply hire a highly respected UK candadian or australian to come in with their own team and genuinely reform the gardai like Patten. Obviously there will be ferocious resistance from vested interests but this is the solution.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,065 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    At this stage, The only way to deal with resistance seems to be to steamroll over it. Radical quick change.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 427 ✭✭Boggy Turf


    It's actually hard to understand what O'Sullivan would see as a resigning offense. She has been a disaster. It's embarrassing at this stage.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    jonsnow wrote: »
    The way to fix the Gardai is actually blindingly simple and is for the first time being considered in the most recent review. It is not easy but it is simple. Hive off the national security function from the gardai.

    Create a domestic intelligence agency - staffed by military, gardai, Revenue, CAB,customs, language experts etc. Appoint a senior military officer with a background in MI or a Crime and Sec garda to run it. It should have the authority to call on other agaencies resources when necessary ie. garda helicopter, access to all garda or revenue files. Have it report to a specific cabinet minister or better yet a cross-party secret committee ala USA etc.

    Then as you no longer need an Irish national running the regular gardai simply hire a highly respected UK candadian or australian to come in with their own team and genuinely reform the gardai like Patten. Obviously there will be ferocious resistance from vested interests but this is the solution.

    Imagine the weak politicians we have pushing such an idea through. No way. FF cannot even put forward a Dail vote on Ms. O Sullivan. Is it fear?


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,065 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    FF don't want to lie in with the AAA or SF in such a vote. IT is a Cabinet decision not a Dail one.
    Not facing up to it, has sunk Frances without trace. Doubt if she'll be in the next cabinet. Long way from being seen as a smart choice for Taoiseach a short time ago.
    Another casualty. When will some one shout stop?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,034 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    IrishSea wrote: »

    In a week where it's reported that a mentally unwell woman committed suicide after a copper posted video of her, during one of her breakdowns, walking naked down O'Connell Street.

    .

    Is it illegal to video people in public and post it online?

    I have seen many videos posted online of Gardai on duty. How is this one different? Should all videos of Garda activity be banned from the internet?


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