General Rugby Discussion II

21-10-2019 1:02pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I'd be surprised if a significant number of pro players aren't doping. It's incredibly easy to do and get away with. Look at the NFL, rampant there, and why not? If your livelyhood is built around getting selected, you'd be silly not to seek an edge.

Risk of cardiac arrest, hypogonadism to name a few.

AbusesToilets · 21-10-2019 1:04pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Risk of cardiac arrest, hypogonadism to name a few.

That's vastly overstated. A properly administered regimen is perfectly fine.

irishbucsfan · 21-10-2019 1:14pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What do we make of the Kimmage- Heaslip story? Kimmage implying heavily that Heaslip was doping.

Mod edit:Unfounded and possible libellous speculation removed.

What do you mean it’s bollocks exactly? Is it not pretty well explained what happened?

salmocab · 21-10-2019 1:44pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

What do you mean it’s bollocks exactly? Is it not pretty well explained what happened?

When I read the article I was thinking how did this make it into the paper, then I remembered it was Kimmage.

21-10-2019 1:45pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

That's vastly overstated. A properly administered regimen is perfectly fine.

Well, I used to work in endocrinology (as a pharmacist) so I'll just attach the following two studies completed in the last year.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0376871615002094

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.116.026945

With regards to the steroids themselves, no track record of storage conditions, no authenticity or trace back to manufacturing facilities. It's not "perfectly fine" and it is foolish to suggest otherwise.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

What do you mean it’s bollocks exactly? Is it not pretty well explained what happened?

Well, JH's story doesn't make sense from a physiological sense. If he had all this really high testosterone levels, why did he only fail one test? It does not seem that he had a medical exemption.

Zzippy · 21-10-2019 1:58pm

Mod: This is going down one road, and it will lead to bans if people continue to speculate in this manner. Boards will not permit any material which could be libellous. If you want to speculate about individuals, head over to reddit or wherever else you get your kicks, but DO NOT do it here.

No more doping speculation without proof and citations.

21-10-2019 2:11pm

Zzippy wrote: »

Mod: This is going down one road, and it will lead to bans if people continue to speculate in this manner. Boards will not permit any material which could be libellous. If you want to speculate about individuals, head over to reddit or wherever else you get your kicks, but DO NOT do it here.

No more doping speculation without proof and citations.

Was just basing that off the Kimmage article. Sorry.

irishbucsfan · 21-10-2019 2:14pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well, I used to work in endocrinology (as a pharmacist) so I'll just attach the following two studies completed in the last year.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0376871615002094

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.116.026945

With regards to the steroids themselves, no track record of storage conditions, no authenticity or trace back to manufacturing facilities. It's not "perfectly fine" and it is foolish to suggest otherwise.

Well, JH's story doesn't make sense from a physiological sense. If he had all this really high testosterone levels, why did he only fail one test? It does not seem that he had a medical exemption.

On the first of January that year they changed the proportion from 6:1 or 5:1 to 4:1. This brought Heaslip under the threshold. Then when they retested the older tests they were found to be consistent with that explanation so it was never counted as a positive test.

irishbucsfan · 21-10-2019 2:15pm

salmocab wrote: »

When I read the article I was thinking how did this make it into the paper, then I remembered it was Kimmage.

Just reading the conversation he transliterates between that and that woman and jaysus I feel sorry for the pair of them

DGRulz · 21-10-2019 9:19pm

Vahaamahina has announced his retirement from international rugby.

Burkie1203 · 21-10-2019 11:25pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

On the first of January that year they changed the proportion from 6:1 or 5:1 to 4:1. This brought Heaslip under the threshold. Then when they retested the older tests they were found to be consistent with that explanation so it was never counted as a positive test.

https://twitter.com/sportslawMELB/status/1186231770275991552?s=19

Zzippy · 22-10-2019 10:29am

Folks, I don't have time to be on here checking for posts that speculate about a player doping. Another post deleted. If you don't have a link to published source information and you post anything in this thread that in any way speculates that a player might have doped, or has a case to answer, you will be banned. As an example, Burkie posted a twitter thread with clarifying information from a sports lawyer. Other posts that did not were deleted.

Final warning.

Burkie1203 · 24-10-2019 9:02am

https://twitter.com/MattHughesDM/status/1187277529008226304?s=19

thomond2006 · 24-10-2019 10:22am

As someone watching, I'm not too bothered about less provincial matches on Lions Tours. For the most part they're not good.

Exclamation Marc · 24-10-2019 10:29am

Three tests and five provincial matches is enough. Adding a sixth is neither here nor there and I think the rugby viewing public will cope.

On the flip side, I'm sure the Lions could play a provincial team minus x amount of players in the Premiership final if they really wanted to, so I'm not too sure how big a blow it is.

Clegg · 24-10-2019 3:16pm

Stuart Hogg starts for Exeter this weekend. Seems like madness to me. He's only just back from the World Cup.

Exclamation Marc · 24-10-2019 4:01pm

Clegg wrote: »

Stuart Hogg starts for Exeter this weekend. Seems like madness to me. He's only just back from the World Cup.

He's probably been on the go either in training, matched or injury rehab since September 2018. Quick road to burnout

Squidgy Black · 24-10-2019 5:15pm

Clegg wrote: »

Stuart Hogg starts for Exeter this weekend. Seems like madness to me. He's only just back from the World Cup.

Sums the Premiership up in terms of player welfare when the Union can't interject really.

I'd imagine you'll see a lot of England players reintroduced fairly snappy when they return too. It's quite terrifying really

errlloyd · 25-10-2019 9:20am

Ah lads, Hogg is probably absolutely thirsting for it. He's had two weeks since his last game and another 10 days since his previous game before that. A player can play three matches in a month if he wants to.

razorblunt · 25-10-2019 10:24am

I'd imagine Hogg just wants to get a new start kicked off.

Dave Rennie looks to be in line to replace Cheika in the Australian Head Coach role.
Think he's taken Glasgow as far as he can.

Quin_Dub · 25-10-2019 10:37am

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Sums the Premiership up in terms of player welfare when the Union can't interject really.

I'd imagine you'll see a lot of England players reintroduced fairly snappy when they return too. It's quite terrifying really

And yet, despite that , they are in a SF and we're not.

Whilst I absolutely fully support the idea of not flogging players and doing right by them, I'm not sure that all the cotton wool we've been wrapping some of our players in has served us all that well tbh.

25-10-2019 10:39am

Quin_Dub wrote: »

And yet, despite that , they are in a SF and we're not.

Whilst I absolutely fully support the idea of not flogging players and doing right by them, I'm not sure that all the cotton wool we've been wrapping some of our players in has served us all that well tbh.

They have a massive pool, to choose from. We have significant drops in ability in key areas once you scratch the surface.

Losing key players hurts them a hell of a lot less than Ireland.

jr86 · 25-10-2019 10:43am

Deleted User wrote: »

They have a massive pool, to choose from. We have significant drops in ability in key areas once you scratch the surface.

Losing key players hurts them a hell of a lot less than Ireland.

Yet they've had basically a fully fit squad for all of 2019

aloooof · 25-10-2019 10:46am

jr86 wrote: »

Yet they've had basically a fully fit squad for all of 2019

Which would be the exception. Just look at the injury profile of Tuilagi and Vunipola, 2 huge players for England.

25-10-2019 10:53am

jr86 wrote: »

Yet they've had basically a fully fit squad for all of 2019

That's not the point, they can run the risk of injuries to players. Does not matter to them if they get injured or not, they can slot in others.

We cannot run that risk so can end up with key players getting fairly limited game time. At times we are (have to be) on the other extreme with players coming in somewhat cold.

Quin_Dub · 25-10-2019 10:53am

aloooof wrote: »

Which would be the exception. Just look at the injury profile of Tuilagi and Vunipola, 2 huge players for England.

To be fair , I don't think that either of their injury histories has much to do with the management of their playing time.

Think it's more to do with them as individuals and the nature of their playing style.

aloooof · 25-10-2019 10:56am

Quin_Dub wrote: »

To be fair , I don't think that either of their injury histories has much to do with the management of their playing time.

Think it's more to do with them as individuals and the nature of their playing style.

They've been rushed back from injuries in the past; that's very much to do with management of their playing time.

Vunipola has even come out and said he'd accept a salary reduction in order to play fewer games.

awec · 25-10-2019 11:34am

I am not sure there is any evidence that Ireland's approach to resting players has any real effect.

molloyjh · 25-10-2019 1:03pm

awec wrote: »

I am not sure there is any evidence that Ireland's approach to resting players has any real effect.

Gathering the necessary evidence to prove or disprove that would take a fair bit of work tbh. But, assuming for the sakenof argument it doesn't work, why would the IRFU persist with something that doesn't work? What would be the point?

irishbucsfan · 25-10-2019 1:45pm

awec wrote: »

I am not sure there is any evidence that Ireland's approach to resting players has any real effect.

It certainly works at keeping the best Irish players in Ireland

General Rugby Discussion II

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