‪Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread IX: The Last Jordi [****]

Squidgy Black wrote: »

There would've been a push to get any NIQ players into the academy before the end of the year so that they'd be IQ under the 3 year rule as opposed to 5 years when the rule came into effect.

Nothing to do with that given when he arrived

Former Former wrote: »

Hmmm. Same as the Munster guys, if this is a cool story about how this random guy ended up here, then great. If we're actively scouting young guys abroad, then no, I'm not happy about that.

This seems to have happened in 2016, so also seems to suggest its not related to the new eligibility laws.

It's very concerning. It's also completely unnecessary for Leinster to be doing this when there are so many tighthead prospects.

I hope it's as you said, a guy who has taken a chance in coming here to learn due to the quality of the setup.

EDIT: I wonder if Greg McWilliams was involved?

baas baa wrote: »

If your setting out to scout school players overseas I doubt America would be your first port of call, especially Hawaii.

My guess is the lads first option didn’t pan out, decided to give rugby a try, got in touch with Leinster with a highlights clip and was invited over for a trial. I doubt your going to lure many elite schools players over to Ireland with a sub-academy deal, especially when they can get a full academy spot down the road.

Quick Google shows he was given a scholarship to a college in Missouri for rugby in 2015 but must've fallen through at some stage or he changed his mind.

http://www.hawaiiprepworld.com/football/upgrade-in-grades-shows-at-kahuku/

irishbucsfan wrote: »

This seems to have happened in 2016, so also seems to suggest its not related to the new eligibility laws.

It's very concerning. It's also completely unnecessary for Leinster to be doing this when there are so many tighthead prospects.

I hope it's as you said, a guy who has taken a chance in coming here to learn due to the quality of the setup.

EDIT: I wonder if Greg McWilliams was involved?

The following paragraph from Murray Kinsella's article would suggest it was a scouting exercise:
"His first foray into rugby came in his final year of high school, when he began playing in the front row and helped Kahuku to a state championship in a second sport. Despite having played only a handful of rugby games and still being 18, he was then picked in the USA U20 squad for the 2016 World Junior Trophy in Zimbabwe.

Having been identified as a player with rich potential, Salanoa was helped to arrange a week-long trial with Leinster in late 2016 and he subsequently returned to Ireland to join Leinster’s sub-academy in September of last year."

So the kid has only been in Ireland since September 2017, and was targeted in late 2016 after being seen in the U20 World Cup.

Given that everyone was expecting the eligibility rule change to be announced in early 2017 it made sense to get an early start. It is exactly the same as the two signings of young South African kids to Munster at the end of last year.

“Was helped to arrange a trial with Leinster” that doesn’t read like Leinster went looking for him at all.

stephen_n wrote: »

“Was helped to arrange a trial with Leinster” that doesn’t read like Leinster went looking for him at all.

"Having been identified as a player with rich potential, Salanoa was helped to arrange a week-long trial with Leinster,"
Somebody identified him, sounds like he was spotted at the U20 World Cup and they approached him,
By helping him I'd bet that means they paid his expenses to send him over for a trial.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

He was on trial here in 2016. The eligibility rules hadn't been sorted at that stage. It's not related to that.

He's not the first strong athlete from a non-rugby backround Leinster have taken a chance on and brought in from overseas. I trained with another a while ago who ended up leaving before getting a deal. We'll see if the same is true for this guy or not.

You're either really naive or simply in denial, the rules were clearly about to change, everybody knew that at least in early 2016.
Professional rugby clubs would certainly have had their scouts working overtime in the last year or so, and it's not going to change now that the rules have changed, it will be more likely that clubs will sign 18 year olds in the hope they will be good enough when they become eligible by the time they are 23 and getting a run with the senior team.

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

You're either really naive or simply in denial, the rules were clearly about to change, everybody knew that at least in early 2016.

Haha. I am neither. I know what happened and it was watched closely on here.

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Professional rugby clubs would certainly have had their scouts working overtime in the last year or so, and it's not going to change now that the rules have changed, it will be more likely that clubs will sign 18 year olds in the hope they will be good enough when they become eligible by the time they are 23 and getting a run with the senior team.

Yeah, in the last year or so. This is a guy who came to Leinster in 2016. You are making a massive assumption based on 0 evidence that it had anything to do with the change to Reg 8 that was announced a year later.

As for clubs signing 18 year olds... they already do that. Our provinces though never did that in the past and still haven't really done it.

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

You're either really naive or simply in denial, the rules were clearly about to change, everybody knew that at least in early 2016.
Professional rugby clubs would certainly have had their scouts working overtime in the last year or so, and it's not going to change now that the rules have changed, it will be more likely that clubs will sign 18 year olds in the hope they will be good enough when they become eligible by the time they are 23 and getting a run with the senior team.

You're missing the point abit. Regs were maybe changing but it wasnt known from early 2016 that there was going to be a change and the irish provinces dont really have "scouts" especially ones abroad. And it will change a good bit with a 5 year tie in not 3 because signing 18 year olds is risky enough with them being irish never mind bringing over seas and irish provinces primary role is to develop irish players which wont change so we wont be signing more 18 year olds
And clubs signing 18 year olds from abroad... they already do that. Our provinces though dont, have never done that and wont pretty much in the future either

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

That is precisely why this arrangement is favourable and which is why it may become the norm in the coming years to sign a few 18 year old overseas players.
They will come a lot cheaper, and would be easy to off-load if don't progress, and on the upside if they do work out to be a prospect they will be Irish eligible by the time they hit 23, which is roughly when you'd expect academy players to start breaking into a senior team.

It's a bit off side business besides the normal academy business, if it doesn't work out it's not the end of the world, but it will be going on in every other club, so it may grow the depth in the squads without so much dependence on local talent, such as key positions like prop and lock and number 8.

This is better suited to the academies thread not the Leinster thread.but this arrangement isnt favourable. it wont become the norm as the academies are about developing irish players and its not likely that these guys will be and while they will come cheaper but at what cost to other irish players who lose out. These signings are very different to exiles being added to academies like sammy arnold, alex wootton who have irish parents.

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

This kid was approached at 18 (or very soon after turning 19) and signed before the rules came into effect, so in effect by the time he hits 23 he will be Irish Qualified, but we'll have to see if any 18 year olds do begin to be signed into sub academies from now on as the rules have now just come into effect.

Well let’s wait until he’s actually signed. At the moment he’s an AIL guy in a very large and very loosely defined sub academy system.

But there is no link yet with the new laws. That’s serious jumping to conclusions.

Squidgy Black wrote: »

But Munster have signed 2 South African 18 year olds to their academy straight out of school.

Unless you're talking about full senior contracts which I agree won't happen. Considering pretty much all players for the provinces go through the academy for at least a year or two before getting contracted for the senior side. But that's more to do with the setup of other clubs, clubs in England start their full academy from the age of 15/16 which is generally school leavers age unless they go on to do A levels, and have regular underage teams and training programs from 13.

Interestingly there's actually a company called PlayRSA that call themselves the French Rugby Academy that help to bring SA players over to France and get them a spot in French team academies for like 7500 euro.

They may be training with academy but nothing has been announced that theyve signed to it. They may well be in sub academy at the moment.
We have regular underage teams and training programmes from 15/16 with players identified from the age of 15 when kids are playing under 16 youths rugby/junior schools.

Very peculiar given the level of production currently in Leinster. The devil may be in the details but the overall principle is similar. It's a murky situation and I'm not happy to see it.

Although, as with the SA players, it's a professional game and teams are going to do what they can within the regulations to get an edge.

Deleted User wrote: »

If that's the case then what was Murray Kinsella's motives in publishing the story if the kid is completely amateur?