Irish Rail September Timetable Changes

The J Stands for Jay · 10-09-2018 4:34pm

XPS_Zero wrote: »

So were mutually screwing each other? Lovely....

Maybe it really is time to halt it and do the interchange at Greystones or BRay (braces for punchs...)

I might be up for it after a few weeks of this. Once we can prove one is as slow as the other...

Infini · 10-09-2018 4:49pm

PCros wrote: »

They are all over the shop - this is embarrassing for a national rail service.

It was well warned by plenty that increased traffic would have this effect. Drivers issues aside they need to invest significantly in the infrastructure itself including DU and rolling stock to have better reliability.

Zulu · 10-09-2018 5:07pm

thomasj wrote: »

According to twitter (and Irish rail seem to have apologised ) for it , there's 2 carriage DARTs operating this evening.

Awesome! Good job guys.

thomasj · 10-09-2018 5:09pm

https://twitter.com/louiser79871351/status/1039174057659383808?s=09

According to twitter (and Irish rail seem to have apologised ) for it , there's 2 carriage DARTs operating this evening

Infini · 10-09-2018 5:12pm

thomasj wrote: »

https://twitter.com/louiser79871351/status/1039174057659383808?s=09

According to twitter (and Irish rail seem to have apologised ) for it , there's 2 carriage DARTs operating this evening

Havent seen any of these trains theyre talking about so far...

Edit: Smallest train was a single 4car train so far. Someones trolling on twatter by the looks of it.

PCros · 10-09-2018 5:14pm

The DARTS are getting smaller as the day goes on!

Sam Russell · 10-09-2018 5:14pm

Just checked RT system @17:15 for Sydney Parade and all Darts N & S are running within 2 mins, and nearly all are on time. (This is as shown on the RT system).

Phil.x · 10-09-2018 5:17pm

I seen a two carriage diesel on the m3 lin before, I couldn't stop laughing, it was like comedy act.

lawred2 · 10-09-2018 5:18pm

end of the road wrote: »

that's the most likely reason tbh. if it was any kind of industrial action then more would be effected surely?

They don't have the drivers? For a train service.

That's a bit basic you'd have to say

devnull · 10-09-2018 5:18pm

Phil.x wrote: »

I seen a two carriage diesel on the m3 lin before, I couldn't stop laughing, it was like comedy act.

Well it won't happen anymore because there aren't any to use on the line.

lawred2 · 10-09-2018 5:19pm

thomasj wrote: »

https://twitter.com/louiser79871351/status/1039174057659383808?s=09

According to twitter (and Irish rail seem to have apologised ) for it , there's 2 carriage DARTs operating this evening

A picture of Thomas the tank engine and his two wee carriages would be appropriate here

devnull · 10-09-2018 5:20pm

lawred2 wrote: »

end of the road wrote: »

that's the most likely reason tbh. if it was any kind of industrial action then more would be effected surely?

They don't have the drivers? For a train service.

That's a bit basic you'd have to say

The staff spent a couple of years preventing new staff from completing their training whilst making extra money in overtime by doing so

Zulu · 10-09-2018 5:21pm

lawred2 wrote: »

A picture of Thomas the tank engine and his two wee carriages would be appropriate here

Thomas really is a useful engine.

end of the road · 10-09-2018 5:29pm

Phil.x wrote: »

I seen a two carriage diesel on the m3 lin before, I couldn't stop laughing, it was like comedy act.

i presume this wasn't today? all the 2 carrige diesels are in cork and limerick the past few years.

devnull wrote: »

Well it won't happen anymore because there aren't any to use on the line.

until the 2700s come back.

Qrt · 10-09-2018 5:39pm

end of the road wrote: »

all the 2 carrige diesels are in cork and limerick the past few years.

Ballina too if I recall correctly from passing through Manulla Junction on Saturday.

Kh1993 · 10-09-2018 6:02pm

Complete disaster, train after train cancelled today, commuters not picking up the Howth Jct and Portmarnock slack.

No surprise though, the people here will tell us frequency is great and ‘it takes time’, same the way the people of Rush and Skerries will benefit by having the 33x removed. Certain ideologies will always push a pie in the Sky new service for ‘potential customers’ while shafting existing PT users. The poor relations.

For all the ‘darts will be less full’ now because of the frequency, I invite those people to sit on the packed to the brim 4 carriage darts before Howth Junction this morning, or your 50 minute connection because your dart was cancelled and missed your commuter.

Progress though, never mind the existing users.

end of the road · 10-09-2018 6:03pm

Qrt wrote: »

Ballina too if I recall correctly from passing through Manulla Junction on Saturday.

you are correct. a unit swaps to and from limerick depot, i think on a weekly basis.

Kh1993 · 10-09-2018 6:05pm

Decuc500 wrote: »

I'd like to think this would happen with the new timetable but it won't. 4 carriage darts in rush hour every 20 minutes from Howth will always be jammed.

Anyway, what annoys me is we're being told more darts! Better frequency! The reality this morning was less darts! Less frequency! Shorter trains!

Where exactly is the improvement? Oh yeah, 3:00pm in the afternoon.

Who benefits? All those ‘potential passengers’ now though that will connect off their Bus Connects after already connecting before connecting again!

devnull · 10-09-2018 6:13pm

Kh1993 wrote: »

Complete disaster, train after train cancelled today, commuters not picking up the Howth Jct and Portmarnock slack.

No surprise though, the people here will tell us frequency is great and ‘it takes time’, same the way the people of Rush and Skerries will benefit by having the 33x removed. Certain ideologies will always push a pie in the Sky new service for ‘potential customers’ while shafting existing PT users. The poor relations.

For all the ‘darts will be less full’ now because of the frequency, I invite those people to sit on the packed to the brim 4 carriage darts before Howth Junction this morning, or your 50 minute connection because your dart was cancelled and missed your commuter.

How about you give it a week or two and let things settle down first before giving the timetable the last rites. I don't know any new timetable that has worked ideally from the first day, it never does, not with Dublin Bus, not with Irish Rail, not with any rail company and as we've seen, not with the LUAS either.

I've been on DB services that have increased to every 10 minutes from every 20 minutes and the first week or so you had the odd situation where the existing 7.20 and 7.40 departures were full and standing, and the 7.30 was only single figures on it because the extra services were not advertised.

Judging a timetable on one days service is misguided at best and hyperbolic at worst, especially when we don't know if there were industrial relations issues that were playing into these cancellations this evening and the fact that there was next to no details given at stations about the changes to timetables, the majority of people I've spoke to today who took the train had no idea there was a new timetable in place.

If we're having the same issues a week or two further down the line, then sure, something needs to be done, but if we did it on one day then a lot of DB services would never have got beyond it, with stops with no timetables and scrolls that were not even programmed for the routes and buses going the wrong way as we've seen in the pas and we've also seen LUAS Cross city get off to a bad start and settle down.

Kh1993 · 10-09-2018 6:17pm

devnull wrote: »

How about you give it a week or two and let things settle down first before giving the timetable the last rites. I don't know any new timetable that has worked ideally from the first day, it never does, not with Dublin Bus, not with Irish Rail, not with any rail company and as we've seen, not with the LUAS either.

I've been on DB services that have increased to every 10 minutes from every 20 minutes and the first week or so you had the odd situation where the existing 7.20 and 7.40 departures were full and standing, and the 7.30 was only single figures on it because the extra services were not advertised.

Judging a timetable on one days service is misguided at best and hyperbolic at worst, especially when we don't know if there were industrial relations issues that were playing into these cancellations this evening and the fact that there was next to no details given at stations about the changes to timetables, the majority of people I've spoke to today who took the train had no idea there was a new timetable in place.

If we're having the same issues a week or two further down the line, then sure, something needs to be done, but if we did it on one day then a lot of DB services would never have got beyond it, with stops with no timetables and scrolls that were not even programmed for the routes, as we've seen in the past.

A week or two is a cop out. Allows issues such as peak time reductions to become the norm. Unfortunately, bosses don’t give late shows ‘a week or two’. The timetable hasn’t increased frequency for a vast swathe of North’s dublin and has now caused serious disruption to a service which has been actually running well (mornings anyway) recently.

devnull · 10-09-2018 6:40pm

Kh1993 wrote: »

A week or two is a cop out. Allows issues such as peak time reductions to become the norm. Unfortunately, bosses don’t give late shows ‘a week or two’. The timetable hasn’t increased frequency for a vast swathe of North’s dublin and has now caused serious disruption to a service which has been actually running well (mornings anyway) recently.

Well my former colleagues are very happy with the new timetable, they can now get to work at 7.00am and no longer have to wait 45 minutes in the evening for a Malahide DART that they may not have been able to board, something they've suffered daily for years.

Judging something on one days service is ridiculous, as I said, if we did that then none of the newer Dublin Bus routes that have been rolled out over the last few years would have stood because the first few days of many of them were a disaster with no shows, no timetables, buses not able to show the routes on their displays and buses taking the wrong turns.

We'd also never have had LUAS Cross City, which was far from perfect for a while when it was first introduced but now has settled down and most of the problems that existed at the start are now gone because it had time to be bedded in and the teething problems to be addressed.

I agree that today wasn't good enough, but the cancellations tonight may well be the result of unofficial industrial action rather than because of the new timetable itself.

ixoy · 10-09-2018 6:55pm

So my train now arrives later at Tara Street and has four carriages instead of eight. Completely wedged. This benefits nobody - reduced capacity and, for what it's worth, it doesn't benefit people trying to commute home from East Point either because they weren't getting on it (it was going to Malahide).

I can see a few phone-ins ringing off the hook on the radio this week.

devnull · 10-09-2018 7:01pm

ixoy wrote: »

So my train now arrives later at Tara Street and has four carriages instead of eight. Completely wedged. This benefits nobody - reduced capacity and, for what it's worth, it doesn't benefit people trying to commute home from East Point either because they weren't getting on it (it was going to Malahide).

The previous issue was a lot of people clock off between 5.30pm and 6.00pm at EastPoint and after the 6.01pm Malahide DART there wasn't one until 6.42pm both of which were six cars that it was a struggle to board. Now there are DARTS at 5.58pm, 6.18pm and 6.38pm, filling in the large 40 minute gap should make all the difference if it's done properly.

ixoy · 10-09-2018 7:05pm

devnull wrote: »

Now there are DARTS at 5.58pm, 6.18pm and 6.38pm, filling in the large 40 minute gap makes all the difference.

But if it's a four carriage DART that's wedged and they can't get on anyway... does it make a difference?

A big part of the issue here seems that the capacity isn't sufficient for the time table they want. Hopefully that capacity issue is "teething problems".

n97 mini · 10-09-2018 7:10pm

devnull wrote: »

How about you give it a week or two and let things settle down first before giving the timetable the last rites.

If the Maynooth line was running on time to the nearest second, the changes are still not satisfactory. Last direct train before 9am to Pearse is 7.30am, which is going to be rammed every morning. Most weekday and all weekend off-peaks are to Connolly only (can't figure out what that's got to do with the 10 minute DART), which breaks the connection that people make at Tara to switch onto the Luas. The new timetable means the train is 10-20 minutes slower than the bus off-peak (for me).

devnull · 10-09-2018 7:11pm

ixoy wrote: »

But if it's a four carriage DART that's wedged and they can't get on anyway... does it make a difference?

My point more was - that it was unacceptable for one of the biggest places of employment on the DART line to have a 40 minute gap in services to the likes of Portmarnock, Malahide and Clongriffin etc.

There was the request from management at Eastpoint to resolve the issue by stopping a single commuter at Clontarf to fill in the 40 minute gap, but unfortunately they were told that it was never going to happen.

A big part of the issue here seems that the capacity isn't sufficient for the time table they want. Hopefully that capacity issue is "teething problems".

They should have had at least 3-4 extra train sets in operation for peak time today than they normally would have which should have in theoiry provided extra capacity on the lines.

The problem is with a new timetable and people turning up at the old times as they don't know about it, some who do know about it, you don't know exactly what trains are going to be the busiest, or how people will adapt their commute times when they realise that there is a new timetable. That's why you see inconsistent loading on trains that I've seen today, where you can have a fairly empty train either side of two absolutely sardine ones.

If I was IR I'd give it a few days for people to adjust, then start to see where there are shorter trains who need more capacity and longer trains that don't, but if they change stuff too quick, whilst people are changing themselves, it's just going to be a whack a mole or cat or mouse game that changes every day.

LeinsterDub · 10-09-2018 7:15pm

Infini wrote: »

It was well warned by plenty that increased traffic would have this effect. Drivers issues aside they need to invest significantly in the infrastructure itself including DU and rolling stock to have better reliability.

To a degree I hope it's infrastructural. Then IE can say we tired and it failed because we need x, y and z now, a, b and c in the longer term. It much better than the if only we had X hundred million we could fix it.

Rashers72 · 10-09-2018 7:18pm

devnull wrote: »

How about you give it a week or two and let things settle down first before giving the timetable the last rites. I don't know any new timetable that has worked ideally from the first day, it never does, not with Dublin Bus, not with Irish Rail, not with any rail company and as we've seen, not with the LUAS either.
Judging a timetable on one days service is misguided at best and hyperbolic at worst, especially when we don't know if there were industrial relations issues that were playing into these cancellations this evening and the fact that there was next to no details given at stations about the changes to timetables, the majority of people I've spoke to today who took the train had no idea there was a new timetable in place.

If we're having the same issues a week or two further down the line, then sure, something needs to be done, but if we did it on one day then a lot of DB services would never have got beyond it, with stops with no timetables and scrolls that were not even programmed for the routes and buses going the wrong way as we've seen in the pas and we've also seen LUAS Cross city get off to a bad start and settle down.

I would agree with you to an extent. But in 1, or 2 or 3 weeks, the following will still be the case:
IE will have removed 3 stops from most Northern Suburban line journeys, yet all seven of the pre 9am inbound Drogheda trains to Pearse M-F will now take longer than today. One takes 5 mins longer, one 6 mins longer. 1 remains the same. How can you disimprove journey times by removing so many stops?
All weekday suburban trains from Drogheda after 10am till 3pm now cease at Connolly. And leaving Pearse, all weekday trains from 10am till 3.45pm require an additional journey to Connolly. So much longer journey times from Pearse.
At weekends, all Northern Suburban trains now cease at Connolly. But passengers want to travel to Tara St at Pearse. The majority of passengers get off there, not Connolly.
2 examples of impact: 1. Last Saturday, leave local station 7.52am, arrive into Pearse 8.36am 44 mins later.
This Saturday you get the same train, but it finishes at Connolly. Long gap for the next DART southbound, means you don't arrive into Pearse till 8.49am. New journey time = 57 mins. So a 13 mins disimprovement to service, or 30% longer journey time.
2. I could also have gotten a later 9am train last Saturday with a journey time of 37mins to Pearse. Same journey will be 52mins on Saturday = 15 mins longer, or 40% worse off.
Every year Irish Rail just adds more time onto the journey into town. Ever since the PPT trains were crammed into Connolly last year timetable was heavily padded on Northern Suburban line. Service was much quicker a few years ago. All express trains now gone.
I doubt the new timetable release in December will improve peak time journey time, or restore the Tara St and Pearse st stops for Maynooth and Drogheda trains. Time will tell.

devnull · 10-09-2018 7:21pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

To a degree I hope it's infrastructural. Then IE can say we tired and it failed because we need x, y and z now, a, b and c in the longer term. It much better than the if only we had X hundred million we could fix it.

Unfortunately the problem is that it seems in this country, the politicians will only build infrastructure when something break so bad that they have no other choice, rather than building it pro-actively, so it might take some serious issues to demonstrate how bad the situation is to get those in power to wake-up that something has to be done.

However the problem Irish Rail have is that the issues with mentoring and the industrial relations issues down the years and how slowly things move (remember how long ago this timetable was first proposed) means that this process is even more drawn out than it needs to be and if there is unofficial industrial action contributing to this as well, then that is unlikely to work in their favour either.

LeinsterDub · 10-09-2018 7:22pm

We can't IE just run the 8 car units. Do they not have enough?

Irish Rail September Timetable Changes

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