Power output of Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV - VRT

sparrowcar · 04-07-2018 9:36am

Getting my PHEV early next week. Some great help on here when doing my research so thanks.
What print out are you speaking off? Would be good to have all the ammo ready for my vrt appointment.

og2k7 · 04-07-2018 10:00am

sparrowcar wrote: »

Getting my PHEV early next week. Some great help on here when doing my research so thanks.
What print out are you speaking off? Would be good to have all the ammo ready for my vrt appointment.

When you do the calculation from VRT site, just print it off (or save to PDF and then print).

What model did you go for?

sparrowcar · 04-07-2018 10:04am

og2k7 wrote: »

When you do the calculation from VRT site, just print it off (or save to PDF and then print).

What model did you go for?

2015 GX4H up north. Immaculate condition compared to what i saw down here. Only 36k miles on clock. It's gunmetal grey which was my preferred colour also. I had resigned myself to buying from the UK but chanced the drive up north and found a gem for good money.

og2k7 · 04-07-2018 10:19am

sparrowcar wrote: »

2015 GX4H up north. Immaculate condition compared to what i saw down here. Only 36k miles on clock. It's gunmetal grey which was my preferred colour also. I had resigned myself to buying from the UK but chanced the drive up north and found a gem for good money.

Awesome - good luck! I still like the car haha - I have tried to book an appointment with Westbrook for that free condition check but been 2 weeks and no-one bothered coming back to me so far. Need to try again

sparrowcar · 04-07-2018 10:29am

og2k7 wrote: »

Awesome - good luck! I still like the car haha - I have tried to book an appointment with Westbrook for that free condition check but been 2 weeks and no-one bothered coming back to me so far. Need to try again

I bought from Mitsubishi dealer so full service and health check which was very reassuring.
Thanks for you help btw

og2k7 · 04-07-2018 11:33am

sparrowcar wrote: »

I bought from Mitsubishi dealer so full service and health check which was very reassuring.
Thanks for you help btw

All good, happy to help - btw sign up to Outlander PHEV FB group - super informative and very helpful guys over there.

edanto · 30-07-2018 12:02am

Thanks for the detail in this thread and the updates.

quenching · 02-08-2018 10:00pm

quenching wrote: »

I had my VRT appointment yesterday, they used the highest amount, €1846 so dropped a bit. The OMSP they used was €25690 which seems very high to me so I'll lodge an appeal and see what happens.

Just to update the VRT aspect. I appealed the initial VRT amount of €1846 to the Revenue VRT unit and it was flatly rejected without any explanation of how they arrived at their valuation, just a statement saying that it had been reviewed recently and the amount was correct. So I lodged a second stage appeal to the Tax Appeals Commisioner, this is easier said than done as they are virtually impossible to get hold of, but I persevered and eventually got to speak to a very helpful chap. I sent details outlined my reasoning that the initial Revenue VRT calculation was excessive and gave a few examples of similar cars for sale, I reckoned I should have paid about €1220 and that they owed me about €600. Today I got a letter from Revenue outlining very similar examples of cars for sale to the ones I submitted and asking if I would accept a refund of about €540 or have the matter referred back to the Tax Appeals Commissioner. Their valuation had changed from approx €25k to approx €22k. It’s probably not worth the effort of perusing it further for the sake of €60 so I think I’ll just accept the refund.

So, in this case being a stubborn sod has paid off!

sparrowcar · 02-08-2018 10:51pm

Wow... simply wow.
PM on the way

TomOnBoard · 02-08-2018 10:55pm

Well done! Great result! Needless to say, we'd love to understand the process you followed.

quenching · 03-08-2018 8:13am

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Well done! Great result! Needless to say, we'd love to understand the process you followed.

Its simple enough, the process is outlined here:
https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/appeals/index.aspx

You must pay whatever VRT is initially calculated by Revenue.
You then lodge a first stage appeal to the Revenue VRT Unit. Give some examples from reputable garages of cars of the same model and similar mileages. You may get a refund at this stage but apparently, mostly they refuse.
You then have 30 days to lodge a second stage appeal with the Tax Appeals Commissioner. Here you really just copy/paste your reasoning given to the Revenue VRT Unit. Note that the TAC are seriously understaffed at the moment and very difficult to contact, phones/emails go unanswered but persistence will get you there. I had to contact the office of the Minister for Finance to give TAC a nudge. Once you can get hold of them they are extremely helpful.
Once TAC receive your second stage appeal they inform Revenue who have 30 days to respond. They seem prompt to respond and if your case is legitimate they then appear fair enough. But why the first stage refusal?
Revenue will then either refuse your second stage appeal and refer it back to the TAC or offer a recalculation of VRT.

In my first stage appeal, I pointed out to Revenue the anomalies in the VRT calculator (listing several BHP variants of the same model when they're all really the same) as well as the excessive valuation. In my second stage appeal, I just went with the valuation.

I'm going to accept the current refund offer, so we'll see how long it takes Revenue to issue the cheque.

TomOnBoard · 03-08-2018 9:08am

quenching wrote: »

Its simple enough, the process is outlined here:
https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/appeals/index.aspx
You must pay whatever VRT is initially calculated by Revenue.

You then lodge a first stage appeal to the Revenue VRT Unit. Give some examples from reputable garages of cars of the same model and similar mileages. You may get a refund at this stage but apparently, mostly they refuse.

You then have 30 days to lodge a second stage appeal with the Tax Appeals Commissioner. Here you really just copy/paste your reasoning given to the Revenue VRT Unit. Note that the TAC are seriously understaffed at the moment and very difficult to contact, phones/emails go unanswered but persistence will get you there. I had to contact the office of the Minister for Finance to give TAC a nudge. Once you can get hold of them they are extremely helpful.

Once TAC receive your second stage appeal they inform Revenue who have 30 days to respond. They seem prompt to respond and if your case is legitimate they then appear fair enough. But why the first stage refusal?

Revenue will then either refuse your second stage appeal and refer it back to the TAC or offer a recalculation of VRT.

In my first stage appeal, I pointed out to Revenue the anomalies in the VRT calculator (listing several BHP variants of the same model when they're all really the same) as well as the excessive valuation. In my second stage appeal, I just went with the valuation.

I'm going to accept the current refund offer, so we'll see how long it takes Revenue to issue the cheque.

Excellent How-To. Thanks a million..

og2k7 · 03-08-2018 9:29am

quenching wrote: »

So, in this case being a stubborn sod has paid off!

Nothing wrong with it - you wont get on a bus if you dont have the correct change on you - so nicely done. They will get you somewhere else dont worry

VRT is not ready for EV/Hybrids - also Id say buyers like us are more knowledgeable at this stage as we know exactly what we are buying - plus as you mentioned, they have multiple models listed and will go after higher fee. If this was my father sorting out the VRT he would have paid whatever amount they tell him - as they have to be right.

@TomOnBoard - if you are VRTing your car, make sure to print off the VRT Calculation as it helped me lower it on the spot by over 200 quid

unkel · 03-08-2018 9:33am

og2k7 wrote: »

VRT is not ready for EV/Hybrids

VRT is very ready for EV. You just pay nothing

Unless you bring in a Tesla of course...

og2k7 · 03-08-2018 10:20am

unkel wrote: »

VRT is very ready for EV. You just pay nothing

Unless you bring in a Tesla of course...

Haha - just seen a brand new Model S - awesome car, still would prefer Model X - for the kids you know

slave1 · 03-08-2018 11:31pm

I'm going to accept the current refund offer, so we'll see how long it takes Revenue to issue the cheque.

I appealed twice previously, in both cases had a cheque within a week of the letter from VRT crowd.

Grumpypants · 13-08-2018 2:58pm

Work just installed two charging points so a PHEV is a serious option now. I live 32km away, so could charge at work, make it home, and almost get back in without using the petrol engine. A little top up at home would do the trick.

Been looking around and the Outlander seems to fit my needs (room for two kids, buggies, dealing with pot-holes on country lanes).

Importing would be great, but I've a 08 A4 to get rid of, I tried selling privately before and the thoughts of dealing with fivers for luck again gives me shivers. So I'd prob need to trade in.

Looking at about 15K cash, what would be a reasonable expectation on the A4. Full Audi history, brand new timing belt and just passed the NCT but 350,000km. 4-5k be madness?

sparrowcar · 13-08-2018 3:01pm

Grumpypants wrote: »

Work just installed two charging points so a PHEV is a serious option now. I live 32km away, so could charge at work, make it home, and almost get back in without using the petrol engine. A little top up at home would do the trick.

Been looking around and the Outlander seems to fit my needs (room for two kids, buggies, dealing with pot-holes on country lanes).

Importing would be great, but I've a 08 A4 to get rid of, I tried selling privately before and the thoughts of dealing with fivers for luck again gives me shivers. So I'd prob need to trade in.

Looking at about 15K cash, what would be a reasonable expectation on the A4. Full Audi history, brand new timing belt and just passed the NCT but 350,000km. 4-5k be madness?

Pre or after tax changes?

og2k7 · 13-08-2018 3:03pm

Grumpypants wrote: »

Work just installed two charging points so a PHEV is a serious option now. I live 32km away, so could charge at work, make it home, and almost get back in without using the petrol engine. A little top up at home would do the trick.

Been looking around and the Outlander seems to fit my needs (room for two kids, buggies, dealing with pot-holes on country lanes).

Importing would be great, but I've a 08 A4 to get rid of, I tried selling privately before and the thoughts of dealing with fivers for luck again gives me shivers. So I'd prob need to trade in.

Looking at about 15K cash, what would be a reasonable expectation on the A4. Full Audi history, brand new timing belt and just passed the NCT but 350,000km. 4-5k be madness?

You wont get that much

I traded in my 08 estate and got 1400 for it and to be honest I dont have time nor will to deal with private buyers. If you get a Gx3h (as I did) you should get a good model at 13.3 14k sterling x FX + VRT + importing (logistics,ferry, you name it) = should be roughly 17 k minus your A4

Hope this helps

Grumpypants · 13-08-2018 3:18pm

sparrowcar wrote: »

Pre or after tax changes?

After, €280 tax per year.

sparrowcar · 13-08-2018 3:36pm

Grumpypants wrote: »

After, €280 tax per year.

I'm thinking 2.5k max with that sort of mileage. It's 10 years old also.

Grumpypants · 15-08-2018 11:09am

What's people thoughts on high mileage on these PHEVs? Looking at Autotrader you can get a GX4H for around £9-11K but mileage is high, 100-150K miles high.

High mileage has never bothered me in the past, I bought a 7 year old Deisel A4 with 180K miles and never had an ounce of bother over the last 3 years, but PHEV is an unknown. I would assume that because of the lower number of points of failure in an electric motor that high miles would be less important, and long UK motorway miles on cruise control is still much better than low miles made up of lots of short trips to the shops on backward Irish roads.

slave1 · 15-08-2018 11:39am

Grumpypants wrote: »

...much better than low miles made up of lots of short trips to the shops on backward Irish roads.

Have you driven NI or UK non-motorway roads, don't think our ones are worse for a second, lots of A and B roads there are 97kmh speed limits when the should be 80kmh because the are brutal, but lots of the UK and NI don't use 80kmh limits, just straight from 97 to 64 so folk end up using them too much.
Our bad roads are nowhere worst than UK ones and a lot of our L roads are way better than UK B roads, same goes for our R roads versus their A ones

og2k7 · 15-08-2018 11:45am

Grumpypants wrote: »

What's people thoughts on high mileage on these PHEVs? Looking at Autotrader you can get a GX4H for around £9-11K but mileage is high, 100-150K miles high.

High mileage has never bothered me in the past, I bought a 7 year old Deisel A4 with 180K miles and never had an ounce of bother over the last 3 years, but PHEV is an unknown. I would assume that because of the lower number of points of failure in an electric motor that high miles would be less important, and long UK motorway miles on cruise control is still much better than low miles made up of lots of short trips to the shops on backward Irish roads.

The issue here is with the warranty (as in concern) - 92k miles or 5 years. If you can plug in the OBD2 and get the PHEV Watchdog app connected before buying (so you can check the battery health) it should be okay Id say (As in battery being around 80%). Works only with android unfortunately

Hope this helps

og2k7 · 16-08-2018 11:48am

On a slightly related note:

https://www.ccpc.ie/consumers/product_recalls/mitsubishi-recall-asx-outlander-outlander-phev/

Spoken to Mitsubishi Ireland just now and we all should be getting a letter soon: the recently imported cars should be getting letters coming from the UK.

Been told that if I dont see the letter in the next couple of days, to give them a call and they will have a look

Grumpypants · 16-08-2018 1:43pm

I saw that yesterday too. Was looking on the UK MOT site (It's actually great). https://www.check-mot.service.gov.uk/ You can put in any license plate of a car you are looking at and see the previous MOT results. See if there was anything that needed repairing or any advisory items. But it also lists any active recalls.

Was checking out a few PHEV Outlanders and saw the recall is active.

quenching · 17-08-2018 9:18pm

quenching wrote: »

Just to update the VRT aspect. I appealed the initial VRT amount of €1846 to the Revenue VRT unit and it was flatly rejected without any explanation of how they arrived at their valuation, just a statement saying that it had been reviewed recently and the amount was correct. So I lodged a second stage appeal to the Tax Appeals Commisioner, this is easier said than done as they are virtually impossible to get hold of, but I persevered and eventually got to speak to a very helpful chap. I sent details outlined my reasoning that the initial Revenue VRT calculation was excessive and gave a few examples of similar cars for sale, I reckoned I should have paid about €1220 and that they owed me about €600. Today I got a letter from Revenue outlining very similar examples of cars for sale to the ones I submitted and asking if I would accept a refund of about €540 or have the matter referred back to the Tax Appeals Commissioner. Their valuation had changed from approx €25k to approx €22k. It’s probably not worth the effort of perusing it further for the sake of €60 so I think I’ll just accept the refund.

So, in this case being a stubborn sod has paid off!

Cheque for €546 from Revenue arrived in the post today making the VRT final amount €1300 rather than the €1846 they originally insisted was due. The whole process took about 2 months from the VRT appointment with the NCTS crowd.

Interesting that the Revenue VRT calculator still shows the amount due for my model GX4H with the same mileage to be over €1800.

Grumpypants · 21-08-2018 5:19pm

Thoughts on going with a high mileage GX4H or a low mileage GX3h? for about €15K

The 4H seems to have a few nice features, nothing essential though. And to get one at a reasonable price I see they have put up serious miles (100K+). So the nice leather you pay more for is a bit worn.

A 3H doesn't have the touch screen and reverse camera, but I can get one with less than 40K miles and Warranty for roughly the same money.

Is there anything in a GX4H that is a must have?

I've also been toying with the idea of going full EV with a BMW i3 or The Merc B Class. Not sure how either would deal with two small kids and rough Irish back roads. the lack of fast charge of the merc is off-putting too. but in saying that 90% of my driving is done going 20 miles to work and back home. Occasional 60miles trips to the parents and we have a 2nd car for long family trips. So neither are totally ruled out.

Work just installed a charging point that we can use for free which is the driving force for the change.

og2k7 · 21-08-2018 8:30pm

Grumpypants wrote: »

Thoughts on going with a high mileage GX4H or a low mileage GX3h? for about €15K

The 4H seems to have a few nice features, nothing essential though. And to get one at a reasonable price I see they have put up serious miles (100K+). So the nice leather you pay more for is a bit worn.

A 3H doesn't have the touch screen and reverse camera, but I can get one with less than 40K miles and Warranty for roughly the same money.

Is there anything in a GX4H that is a must have?

I've also been toying with the idea of going full EV with a BMW i3 or The Merc B Class. Not sure how either would deal with two small kids and rough Irish back roads. the lack of fast charge of the merc is off-putting too. but in saying that 90% of my driving is done going 20 miles to work and back home. Occasional 60miles trips to the parents and we have a 2nd car for long family trips. So neither are totally ruled out.

Work just installed a charging point that we can use for free which is the driving force for the change.

I decided against gx4h and opted for warranty and lower mileage. Only thing i would have liked is that display of all details etc : i like gadgets though

Looked at the merc and didn't even consider: brand new has a range of 17 miles (dont quote me on that) and expensive servicing and spare parts ( from other users - non ev)

For us moving from a big estate and having to drive 2 kids and a granny ( so either only me or 5) the outlander was the only option. Really wanted the Niro until i sat in it and it was just plain small. Boot was way too small

Grumpypants · 21-08-2018 9:37pm

og2k7 wrote: »

I decided against gx4h and opted for warranty and lower mileage. Only thing i would have liked is that display of all details etc : i like gadgets though

Looked at the merc and didn't even consider: brand new has a range of 17 miles (dont quote me on that) and expensive servicing and spare parts ( from other users - non ev)

For us moving from a big estate and having to drive 2 kids and a granny ( so either only me or 5) the outlander was the only option. Really wanted the Niro until i sat in it and it was just plain small. Boot was way too small

Thinking along similar lines re kids, buggies and potholes. The Outlander makes the most sense. I would love to go full electric but i think it needs 2-3 more years for dome nice cars to come along and the price to drop.

The merc was pure electric, it does 120 miles on a full charge but has no 30 min fast charge option. So if you need to charge mid journey it's a 4-6 hour wait. Very impracticable but it is the nicest pure electric ive seen. Really top class. Apparently they used Tesla parts so lost a fortune on it, barely advertised it, and have even stopped production.

The BMW i3 rex has a tiny petrol motor that charges the battery but is technically a hybrid so doesn't get the free VRT bonus.

Power output of Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV - VRT

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