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Two more victims of "unknown substance" in U.K.

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Comments

  • #302
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    cnocbui wrote: »
    I can think of someone i would like to see get a 100g dose of it.

    Local effects are immediate like straight away. I guess they were vomiting and getting sick while having dinner?. Would you not go home and rest up if you feel unwell?


  • #303
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    you mean the report that was corrected because a reporter used the wrong units? that is the hill you want to die on? I think they know themselves how much of a sample they have. They are scientists after all so you should accept what they say.

    I like the British police to release CTV of the skiprals returning home. That would make their case stronger these men are involved.


  • #304
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    mcmoustache wrote: »
    Are you saying that they weren't poisoned by novichok? It seems to me that you're just throwing shít at the wall hoping that it will stick.

    Charles Rowley said he found a sealed box it was not open. There has to be another batch if it's sealed.


  • #305
    Elmer Blooker
    Registered Users Posts: 6,034 ✭✭✭Elmer Blooker


    This is what you are up against Cheerful Spring.
    You are clearly asking "difficult" questions which is when the thinly veiled abuse starts. :o
    I wouldn't even argue with this guy
    You don't even have a slight grasp on reality
    It seems to me that you're just throwing sh at the wall
    clearly you are determined to prove how obstinate a human can be.
    You are trolling again.
    He'll just move on to another debunked conspiracy theory
    This is getting more ridiculous than your 911 thread.
    I wouldn't even argue with this guy


  • #306
    WinnyThePoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭WinnyThePoo


    Elmer what's that Russian conspiracy site you trust again,?


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  • #307
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 19,673 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    WinnyThePoo wrote: »
    Elmer what's that Russian conspiracy site you trust again,?

    theworldaccordingtovlad.com


  • #308
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Elmer Blooker wrote: »
    This is what you are up against Cheerful Spring.
    You are clearly asking "difficult" questions which is when the thinly veiled abuse starts. :o

    I know what they are so opposed to seeing CTV video of Skiprals returning home between 12 noon and 1pm. It would go a long way to proofing the Skiprals were poisoned in the place the British police claim it happened.


  • #309
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,122 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    I like the British police to release CTV of the skiprals returning home. That would make their case stronger these men are involved.


    can you respond to the post you quoted?


  • #310
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 19,673 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Oh, look, more conspiracies from two other countries now - the Netherlands and Switzerland this time.

    It's a conspiracy, I tell you!
    Two Russian men were arrested earlier this year on suspicion of spying on a Swiss laboratory investigating the poisoning of Sergei Skripal, a newspaper investigation has claimed.

    Swiss publication Tages Anzeiger and Dutch paper NRC said they were arrested in the Netherlands earlier this year.

    The Swiss lab analysed samples from the poisoning of the former Russian double agent in the UK.

    It has also dealt with suspected chemical weapons from the war in Syria.

    The two men were expelled from The Netherlands shortly after their arrest, which had not been reported until now.

    A spokeswoman for Swiss intelligence told the BBC that the agency had been actively involved in "the case of the Russian spies", without mentioning the laboratory at Spiez, near Bern.

    But Tages Anzeiger said the Swiss intelligence agency had confirmed the findings of its joint investigation with NRC.

    The report says the two men had equipment that could have been used to break into the laboratory's computer systems, and also alleged that they worked for Russian intelligence.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45522614


  • #311
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    can you respond to the post you quoted?

    The director general of the international chemical weapons watchdog told the New York Times, it was not a reporter who made the claim. He thought it was feasible since he made the claim.

    100 grams is equivalent to 100ml. They found some Novitchok in liquid perfume bottle they are usually 50ml or higher?


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  • #312
    Elmer Blooker
    Registered Users Posts: 6,034 ✭✭✭Elmer Blooker


    WinnyThePoo wrote: »
    Elmer what's that Russian conspiracy site you trust again,?
    You tell me, find an example of this "Russian conspiracies/propaganda" that I post.
    Go on then, what are you waiting for?

    I'm saying that the transfer of Crimea from Russia to Ukraine by Soviet dictator Khrushchev was illegal, is that Russian propaganda or a conspiracy theory?


  • #313
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,122 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    The director general of the international chemical weapons watchdog told the New York Times, it was not a reporter who made the claim. He thought it was feasible since he made the claim.


    the 100g number that was originally reported was incorrect and subsequently corrected. why do you find something so simple so difficult to understand?

    On 3 May 2018, the head of the OPCW, Ahmet ümcü, informed the New York Times that he had been told that about 50-100g of the nerve agent was thought to have been used in the attack, which indicated it was likely created for use as a weapon and was enough to kill a large number of people.[75] The next day however the OPCW made a correcting statement that the "quantity should probably be characterised in milligrams", though "the OPCW would not be able to estimate or determine the amount of the nerve agent that was used".[76][77]


  • #314
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,122 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Elmer Blooker wrote: »
    You tell me, find an example of this "Russian propaganda" that I post.
    Go on then, what are you waiting for?

    I'm saying that the transfer of Crimea from Russia to Ukraine by Soviet dictator Khrushchev was illegal, is that Russian propaganda?


    the transfer was agreed at a much later date by the russian state. an agreement they broke when they invaded crimea.


  • #315
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    the 100g number that was originally reported was incorrect and subsequently corrected. why do you find something so simple so difficult to understand?

    It was corrected based on the sample they received what don't you get.

    Did you miss this part of the statement?

    though "the OPCW would not be able to estimate or determine the amount of the nerve agent that was used".[76][77]

    OPCW cannot tell how much was used to poison the Skiprals.


  • #316
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,122 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    It was corrected based on the sample they received what don't you get.

    Did you miss this part of the statement?

    though "the OPCW would not be able to estimate or determine the amount of the nerve agent that was used".[76][77]

    OPCW cannot tell how much was used to poison the Skiprals.


    i think you need to go back to school.


  • #317
    WinnyThePoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭WinnyThePoo


    Elmer Blooker wrote: »
    You tell me, find an example of this "Russian conspiracies/propaganda" that I post.
    Go on then, what are you waiting for?

    I'm saying that the transfer of Crimea from Russia to Ukraine by Soviet dictator Khrushchev was illegal, is that Russian propaganda or a conspiracy theory?

    Well, i want to thank Billy86 for the work.

    but here....
    Elmer Blooker wrote: »
    I noticed you ignored the link I posted earlier. I suppose that's propaganda?
    I like off-guardian ... end of .. Any source that exposes the "rebels" in Syria for the blood thirsty terrorists that they are is good enough for me.
    You stick to your sources and I'll stick to mine.

    Oh and then Billy went further in a very informative post ,explained the site.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=106482417&postcount=3284

    So , I don't think anyone can you seriously or anything you post on Russian issues just like nobody can take CF seriously.

    Couple of pees in a pod you could say.


  • #318
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    i think you need to go back to school.

    Quote though "the OPCW would not be able to estimate or determine the amount of the nerve agent that was used".[76][77]

    They could not determine the estimate or amount used is self-explanatory.


  • #319
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,122 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    Quote though "the OPCW would not be able to estimate or determine the amount of the nerve agent that was used".[76][77]

    They could not determine the estimate or amount used is self-explanatory.


    the exact amount could not be determined. but the scale of the amount could be. would you agree that it was not tonnes of novichok? would agree it was not kg of novichoks? such amounts would be ludicrous. would you agree it was not micrograms of novichok? such small amounts would probably not be very effective. 1g of novichok would be enough to kill probably 1,000s. why would they bring that amount let alone 100g. can you understand how it is possible to logically deduce the scale of the amount used? can you understand now why trying to explain something to you is like trying to explain it to a 6 year old?


  • #320
    Elmer Blooker
    Registered Users Posts: 6,034 ✭✭✭Elmer Blooker


    WinnyThePoo wrote: »
    So , I don't think anyone can you seriously or anything you post on Russian issues just like nobody can take CF seriously.
    I read Billy's rantings six months ago, in fact it took almost six months to read it!
    I said I like off-guardian, what's the big deal? I like BBC News 24 too, I know everything about Russia and Syria is fake news on that channel but I still watch it. I make my own mind up.
    I noticed you ignored the link I posted earlier. I suppose that's propaganda?
    I like off-guardian ... end of .. Any source that exposes the "rebels" in Syria for the blood thirsty terrorists that they are is good enough for me.
    You stick to your sources and I'll stick to mine.


  • #321
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Did some mapping of the men movements. In fact, the men were walking in the opposite direction from Skipral home. Still does mean they were not up there before 11.58?

    Top left is Skipral house. And the red line is the direction they walking
    461293.png


    461294.png


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  • #322
    Discodog
    Registered Users Posts: 15,821 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    There still no evidence these guys are Russian intelligence agents. What your proof they are? What if they are only Russian tourists? Can we really be certain they're not? Yes, I find their tourist story not credible, but that does not mean they were sent to Salisbury by Putin, to carry out out a hit.

    You ignoring the evidence so far. The Skiprals left their home at just after 9 am, there no CTV footage released of them returning home. This is problematic because they were spotted leaving home and moving around to different locations in Salisbury town. If they did not return home they were not poisoned by Novitchok on the doorknob, the Russians did not arrive in Salisbury till late after 11 am The Skiprals turned off their phones at the same time British police confirmed this finding. It likely they were trying to avoid surveillance that day, and they possibly were heading out to meet someone? The Novitchok bottle found in Charlie Rowley home was plastic wrapped and sealed? Impossible this was the same batch used to poison Skipral and his daughter. There many discrepancies that you are overlooking.

    What proof would you accept ? You expect them or Vlad to admit it ? You expect UK Intelligence to explain how they know & allow you special access to their methods ?


  • #323
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Elmer yesterday...
    Elmer Blooker wrote: »
    If you think I'm going to read that rant you are mistaken.

    Elmer today...
    Elmer Blooker wrote: »
    I read Billy's rantings six months ago...

    Seems like a reliable, trustworthy poster alright. :pac:

    Fact is, Elmer says what suits at any given moment because Elmer can't actually refute what I showed him in that post - all he can do it ram his fingers in his ears and scream "lalalalala I can't hear you lalalalala", which says all it needs to.


  • #324
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    11.58: They are then spotted in Wilton Road in Salisbury, a short distance from Christie Miller Road, Mr Skripal’s address. Police say this is moments before the attack.


    Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2018/09/05/two-russians-named-as-suspects-behind-novichok-poisoning-in-salisbury-7915987/?ito=cbshare

    That's not right the men were walking away in the opposite direction down the road.


  • #325
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Discodog wrote: »
    What proof would you accept ? You expect them or Vlad to admit it ? You expect UK Intelligence to explain how they know & allow you special access to their methods ?

    Where were the Skiprals between 9 am and 1.30pm? I like to know that. There 3 hours they are unaccounted for. We know they left home at 9.15 am and then they reappeared again around 1.30pm. You see images of Skipral driving his BMW around after 1.30pm pm and again at close to 3 pm, you can't see his daughter the images are not high resolution.

    We know these men were not up at Skipral home at 11.58. If they were up there it was before that probably between 11.30 and 11.50. That's a good walk on foot.


  • #326
    Discodog
    Registered Users Posts: 15,821 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    Where were the Skiprals between 9 am and 12 noon? I like to know that. There 3 hours they are unaccounted for. We know they left home at around 9am and then they reappeared again around 1.15 or 1.30pm. You see images of Skipral driving his BMW around after 1 pm and again at close to 3 pm, you can't see his daughter the images are not high resolution.

    We know these men were not up at Skipral home at 11.58. If they were up there it was before that probably between 11.30 and 11.50. That's a good walk on foot.

    You copy Vlad & just ignore the question. You really think that all the evidence is on the internet just for you. Of course the police will show their hand ? :rolleyes:


  • #327
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Discodog wrote: »
    What proof would you accept ? You expect them or Vlad to admit it ? You expect UK Intelligence to explain how they know & allow you special access to their methods ?

    The case rests on the Skiprals returning home between 9 am and 1 pm. If they have not these guys are innocent.

    We know Skipral left after 9 am in his BMW so he must have returned. Why is there no CTV of him returning they have not released an image yet of this happening.


  • #328
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Why are people assuming Skipral did not know these guys? Is it possible they came to meet Skipral and they attacked him then? Nobody seems to care where Skipral was between 9 am and 1 pm. Knowing his movements from 9 am to 1 pm we have a better understanding of what has taken place.


  • #329
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    What I think happened is the Skiprals were poisoned somewhere on the streets near the Zizzi restaurant it was only a short time later they were found. If you look where Dawn Sturgess was living she was around the opposite corner staying in a shelter. The culprit probably dropped the bottle in the rubbish nearby when they made their escape. It was wrapped in plastic that could have just been around the box.

    Police have a lot of explaining to do how a bottle with Novitchok ended up in the rubbish in Amesbury that literally 8 miles north of Salisbury. But if Charles Rowley found a bottle near Dawn home that would explain how he got the bottle.


  • #330
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Elmer Blooker wrote: »
    I read Billy's rantings six months ago, in fact it took almost six months to read it!
    I said I like off-guardian, what's the big deal? I like BBC News 24 too, I know everything about Russia and Syria is fake news on that channel but I still watch it. I make my own mind up.

    The more I think about it nothing about this adds up. There has to be another Russian hit team for this narrative to work.

    Charlie Rowley finding a novitchok bottle has put a spanner in the works. There no possible way Charlie Rowley found a Novitchok bottle near Skipral home.

    That Dawn Sturgess just lives around the corner from the Zizzi Resturant is a big clue where they were poisoned. The UK is just looking to blame Russians and ignoring the evidence.


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  • #331
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users Posts: 7,237 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    Could the Russians here tell me if this is fake?

    There's a report saying that the poisoner's' passports are a little suspect. My Russian isn't great and I's not too familiar with the non-state media landscape over there.

    The leaked document in the link suggest that the two people are GRU operatives.


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