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Two more victims of "unknown substance" in U.K.

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    #722
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Gatling wrote: »
    54% but yet in areas some 110 % of the population voted to join russia there goes more lies .
    The vehicle and missle came from a russian anti aircraft unit they even know the names of the russian soldiers operating it ,
    Fact

    No point in trying to twist anything with lies and propaganda I've pulled apart more putinbot posts than most .

    Stick to the Illuminati

    Census was done in Crimea 65 per cent identify themselves as Russian. About 12 per cent are Tatars. Rest identified themselves as Ukrainians and slavs.

    You don't understand how elections work. It depends on who votes not percentages of the population.

    The area where the plane got shot down was controlled by Ukrainians and rebels. Even if the rebels shot it down they probably thought it was a Ukranian military aircraft.

    There not enough Ukrainians living in Crimea to change the outcome of the referendum.


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    #723
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    You don't understand how elections work. It depends on who votes not percentages of the population.

    So you're saying there's a plausible explanation for a 110% turnout in an election?

    And you're accusing someone else of not understanding how elections work?

    ........

    :confused:


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    #724
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    batgoat wrote: »
    Most inhabitants of Sudentenland back in the day identified as German so you'd argued that the Nazi annexation was justified back in the day? You adopt a pro Russian stance on everything because you literally seem to fall for everything their propaganda outlets have outputted.

    Skripal case was everyone but Russia according to you for the last few months. You've literally claimed a random website was the world standard of facial recognition because it suited your view...

    No because of the Nazis invading the rest of Czechoslovakia, I don't consider it all the same way.

    Putin clearly has not moved in and taken Kiev. This is not an invasion.

    False again I was open to the possibility as far back as May it might be Russia. I have already challenged this assertion before producing a post of mine from back then. I demanded evidence first.

    There still no evidence that guy on the wall is Borisov. The image is blurred and not detailed enough. The name on the wall is legit though I have to no reason to doubt is not a real person. Why Russia seemly denies that person earned a military award is weird so it could be Borisov is a GRU agent.


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    #725
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    wexie wrote: »
    So you're saying there's a plausible explanation for a 110% turnout in an election?

    And you're accusing someone else of not understanding how elections work?

    ........

    :confused:

    The voter turnout in Crimea was 83 per cent. 17 per cent of registered voter did not vote, the probably Ukranians and Tatars


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    #726
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    No because of the Nazis invading the rest of Czechoslovakia, I don't consider it all the same way.
    So you'd have been all good with their initial annexation of Sudetenland? You're backing what was an illegal referendum so you have very loose criteria on what you think are acceptable invasions...


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    #727
    Elmer Blooker
    Registered Users Posts: 6,035 ✭✭✭Elmer Blooker


    batgoat wrote: »
    You're backing what was an illegal referendum so you have very loose criteria on what you think are acceptable invasions...
    Washington and its stooges might have thought the referendum illegal but the citizens of Crimea had every right to determine their own future, get over it!


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    #728
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    batgoat wrote: »
    So you'd have been all good with their initial annexation of Sudetenland? You're backing what was an illegal referendum so you have very loose criteria on what you think are acceptable invasions...

    Depends Sudetenland was part of Austria and the Hungarian empire. If people voted peacefully to be part of Austria I be ok with it. The Nazis had bigger goals in mind than just self-determination. If Putin took over Kiev I would see this as an invasion of a sovereign country. The people in Kiev clearly don't want to be colony of Russia.


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    #729
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users Posts: 7,237 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    Buk anti-aircraft battery was used by the Ukrainians and the Rebels. There no possible way to identify who fired it. It's a Soviet-made weapon platform, you don't need Russian trained personnel there to use it.


    Just on this, the BUK was tracked coming from Russia into Ukraine and back out again and there were separatists/russians caught on radio bragging about it. There is loads more evidence in the official report. The Russian version of the story is about as reliable as Chepiga not being a hero of Russian Federation.


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    #730
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    The voter turnout in Crimea was 83 per cent.

    According to Sputnik ?

    Wait it's not an invasion because they didn't take Kiev ,
    Really
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #731
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    mcmoustache wrote: »
    Just on this, the BUK was tracked coming from Russia into Ukraine and back out again and there were separatists/russians caught on radio bragging about it. There is loads more evidence in the official report. The Russian version of the story is about as reliable as Chepiga not being a hero of Russian Federation.

    Tracked by who? That's a big claim they tracked the Buk system coming from Russia to Ukraine.

    Have you got this radio transcript and audio?

    End of the day I am not opposed to this the rebels shot down the plane. What I find strange is people believing Putin told them to do this. Its warzone accidents are going to happen. I more inclined to believe they thought it was a Ukranian warplane they shot down. Why be happy the killed innocent people?


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    #732
    Elmer Blooker
    Registered Users Posts: 6,035 ✭✭✭Elmer Blooker


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    Tracked by who? That's a big claim they tracked the Buk system coming from Russia to Ukraine.

    Have you got this radio transcript and audio?

    End of the day I am not opposed to this the rebels shot down the plane. What I find strange is people believing Putin told them to do this. Its warzone accidents are going to happen. I more inclined to believe they thought it was a Ukranian warplane they shot down. Why be happy the killed innocent people?
    Eliot 'bellingcat' Higgins, that's who.


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    #733
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Gatling wrote: »
    According to Sputnik ?

    Wait it's not an invasion because they didn't take Kiev ,
    Really

    There were uprisings in the east of Ukraine. What you forget about this is Russia stayed out of the conflicts for months and months on end. I remember the events clearly. The Ukranian army was beating the rebels badly. Ukrainians were about to make a final push and end the conflict and kill a lot of civilians in the Donbass region. I remember discussing it in another forum and people were convinced it was only days or a week left and be all over. I was fully convinced Putin would get involved I could not see how he would just stand by at allow the slaughter to continue. Suddenly the Ukrainians got hammered when the tried to make the final push, the Russians had enough and got involved.


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    #734
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Elmer Blooker wrote: »
    Eliot 'bellingcat' Higgins, that's who.

    How did he track it you probably need security sources for that info?


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    #735
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    How did he track it you probably need security sources for that info?

    You mean like the Dutch government have?

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8YTCQ5-kR3aqaUwyUk1Sig/videos

    Although they are part of NATO so I guess we can't trust them....


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    #736
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    I remember the events clearly.

    No you don't


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    #737
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users Posts: 7,237 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    Tracked by who? That's a big claim they tracked the Buk system coming from Russia to Ukraine.

    Have you got this radio transcript and audio?

    End of the day I am not opposed to this the rebels shot down the plane. What I find strange is people believing Putin told them to do this. Its warzone accidents are going to happen. I more inclined to believe they thought it was a Ukranian warplane they shot down. Why be happy the killed innocent people?


    Here's a link to the audio. The transcript is in English though but you can compare the translations.


    Regarding thr tracking comment, "tracking" may be the wrong word - it was spotted in Donetsk and later identified. There were also pictures taken along the way because people in Ukraine and even some people in Russia have smartphones and internet. It's BUK 332 which belongs to the 53rd Anti-Aircraft Missile Brigade from Kursk. They have taken taken many pictures of themselves and shared them on social media.


    As for Putin personally ordering it, I'm not aware of anyone making that claim. I agree that in war, shít happens and this was most likely caused by separatists thinking it was a Ukrainian military plane.


    Here's a deleted twitter post by another separatist:

    https://twitter.com/StateOfUkraine/status/489802664264212480/photo/1


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    #738
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users Posts: 7,237 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    Elmer Blooker wrote: »
    Eliot 'bellingcat' Higgins, that's who.


    How do you think he tracked it?


    You would be surprised at how many people in Ukraine have smartphones and internet. Even in Russia, some soldiers can afford camera phones and they have a bad habit of uploading stuff to VK. McClatchy and Bellingcat went through this sort of open source data.


    And regarding the vilification of Higgins, this is going to work as well as blaming Soros for everything.


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    #739
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    wexie wrote: »
    You mean like the Dutch government have?

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8YTCQ5-kR3aqaUwyUk1Sig/videos

    Although they are part of NATO so I guess we can't trust them....

    What am I looking for exactly that shows what I am asking for?

    If the rebels shot down the plane why they did not try recovering the parts of the plane and cover up the evidence?


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    #740
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    mcmoustache wrote: »
    Here's a link to the audio. The transcript is in English though but you can compare the translations.


    That clear evidence then they thought it was just a plane. One guy even said **** when heard civilians were dead at the crash site. Another guy says was there weapons on board?

    It clear as day they thought it was some Ukranian plane. One guy even complained why was it flying over a war zone?


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    #741
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users Posts: 7,237 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    That clear evidence then they thought it was just a plane. One guy even said **** when heard civilians were dead at the crash site. Another guy says was there weapons on board?

    It clear as day they thought it was some Ukranian plane. One guy even complained why was it flying over a war zone?


    I don't disagree with that at all. The plane flew over a Donetsk and was shot down by separatists.


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    #742
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    There were .

    Was this forums the heroes of russia or the Illuminati one
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #743
    Elmer Blooker
    Registered Users Posts: 6,035 ✭✭✭Elmer Blooker


    Elmer Blooker wrote: »
    This latest episode of propaganda will quickly die down and will be dropped by a compliant media within a day or two and this thread will also go very quiet accordingly. (like the Salisbury 'third suspect')
    There will be a break for a time before the next episode of anti Russia propaganda is prepared for the masses.
    ^ As I said two days ago the latest "hacking" by Russia that incredibly the US, UK, Netherlands, Canada all uncovered at exactly the same time, will no longer be news. The only mention RTE made yesterday was the review of the papers on Morning Ireland and absolutely nothing after that.
    Why do you think Georgia, Ukraine, Crimea, MH17, Donetsk, Donbass was discussed in this thread last night?
    There will be a bit of a break for a while now before the anti Russia circus begins all over again. We haven't seen any pictures of Syrian babies being rescued for quite a while now have we? Maybe that's next as the public are bored with this hacking stuff. I think its a case of in one ear and out the other at this stage!


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    #744
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Elmer Blooker wrote: »
    ^ As I said two days ago the latest "hacking" by Russia that incredibly the US, UK, Netherlands, Canada all uncovered at exactly the same time, will no longer be news. The only mention RTE made yesterday was the review of the papers on Morning Ireland and absolutely nothing after that.
    Why do you think Georgia, Ukraine, Crimea, MH17, Donetsk, Donbass was discussed in this thread last night?
    There will be a bit of a break for a while now before the anti Russia circus begins all over again. We haven't seen any pictures of Syrian babies being rescued for quite a while now have we?

    But you forgot to mention the russian plane shotdown by the Syrians that russia blamed on everyone else ,(seems planes and russians don't mix)
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #745
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users Posts: 7,237 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    Elmer Blooker wrote: »
    ^ As I said two days ago the latest "hacking" by Russia that incredibly the US, UK, Netherlands, Canada all uncovered at exactly the same time, will no longer be news. The only mention RTE made yesterday was the review of the papers on Morning Ireland and absolutely nothing after that.
    Why do you think Georgia, Ukraine, Crimea, MH17, Donetsk, Donbass was discussed in this thread last night?
    There will be a bit of a break for a while now before the anti Russia circus begins all over again. We haven't seen any pictures of Syrian babies being rescued for quite a while now have we? Maybe that's next as the public are bored with this hacking stuff. I think its a case of in one ear and out the other at this stage!


    Are you saying that these countries just made it all up to make poor Russia look bad? I'm honestly not really sure what you're getting at other than your being incredulous for no reason. You seem to be unable to grasp the fact a country could commit fúckery in multiple countries and have multiple countries respond at a similar time.


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    #746
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Gatling wrote: »
    But you forgot to mention the russian plane shotdown by the Syrians that russia blamed on everyone else ,(seems planes and russians don't mix)

    Israel has carried out 200 strikes inside Syria. Iran and Syria when have they attacked Israel recently?

    Israel is clearly a rogue state.


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    #747
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    mcmoustache wrote: »
    Are you saying that these countries just made it all up to make poor Russia look bad? I'm honestly not really sure what you're getting at other than your being incredulous for no reason. You seem to be unable to grasp the fact a country could commit fúckery in multiple countries and have multiple countries respond at a similar time.

    Russia is engaged in intelligence activities against the west. That hardly a shocker though when the West is supporting their enemies in Syria, Ukraine. Nato bases surrounding Russia, they hardly just going to sit idle and watch. They need to gather the intelligence in case the **** really hit the fan. That's why I think we should talk to Russia, make them think differently about the choices they have.


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    #748
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    Ukraine. Nato bases surrounding Russia,

    Wrong NATO bases are not surrounding russia

    Next
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #749
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Bellingcat strikes again ,
    The have identified another suspect a Dr in the Russian intelligence noless

    Alexander Petrov is Dr. Alexander Yevgenyevich Mishkin - according to Bellingcat investigators
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #750
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,775 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Personal incredulity incoming, taking bets

    "That photo doesn't look like him!"
    "Lol why would the Kremlin send a doctor?"
    "Bellingcat is propaganda! (but an English-speaking Russian state-controlled outlet is somehow legit, where several casters have literally quit live on air condemning the, wait for it, propaganda)


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    #751
    Elmer Blooker
    Registered Users Posts: 6,035 ✭✭✭Elmer Blooker


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Personal incredulity incoming, taking bets

    "That photo doesn't look like him!"
    "Lol why would the Kremlin send a doctor?"
    "Bellingcat is propaganda! (but an English-speaking Russian state-controlled outlet is somehow legit, where several casters have literally quit live on air condemning the, wait for it, propaganda)
    Yawn. You know what a soap opera is? New characters have to brought in to the plot to keep the public interested. This Doctor whats-his-name will be forgotten tomorrow.
    Next!
    Forgotten already by Morning Ireland or most likely they can't even be bothered.


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