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Is southern Africa about to kick off?

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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,261 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    OK folks. We've already had one person banned in the past 24 hours. Let's not have any more. If you can't post in a civil fashion, don't post. And if you haven't read the charter, please do so now.

    Thanks

    One more person has been been banned.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭Taytoland


    blackwhite wrote: »
    Whilst the whole "race war" and "white genocide" stuff is obvious sensationalist scaremongering, there is definitely a major shift in SA over the past 10 years making it a fairly unwelcoming place for white South Africans (Boer/Afrikaner descent).

    I've worked with quite a number of South Africans in a few different countries over the years. A common complaint is that anything Govt related will show fairly blatant favoritism to non-whites (be it priority for services, applications for jobs, tendering for contracts, etc) and that the enforcement of quotas (both officially and unofficially) is rampant - all in an effort to "make up for" how things were under Apartheid.

    Now I know to take some of the complaints with a pinch of salt - I'm sure their own personal biases come into this a bit as well - but it's a fairly consistent complaint from both those who have emigrated permanently, and from those who were still working in SA.
    How is it scaremongering when they are being slaughtered and having the farmland taken off them? All I see is a reverse onto whites slowly but surely but so many are denial about it. Soon the whites will arm themselves and fight back, ironically.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,371 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    Taytoland wrote: »
    How is it scaremongering when they are being slaughtered and having the farmland taken off them? All I see is a reverse onto whites slowly but surely but so many are denial about it. Soon the whites will arm themselves and fight back, ironically.

    I’ve yet to here an actual South African use either phrase TBH.

    Any white SAffers I’ve met through work or otherwise have had a fairly consistent complaint that their home country is getting more and more hostile to whites in some misguided attempt to “balance things up.”

    Yet none that I’ve met have ever claimed there’s a genocide, or anything like that, going on.

    The murders and land grabs are not as widespread as some would like to imply - but they make headlines so seem much more prevelant than is reality. Farm nursery’s have decreased over the last 20 years, not increased, it’s just that the internet means people are more exposed to the news now than were before.

    Any SAffer I’ve talked to seems to believe these murders are robberies as opposed to racially motivated - and are symptomatic of an incompetent Govt who don’t want to be seen to clamp down on black crime, but not really related to race.

    There’s a genuine fear and anger around the proposed land grabs - but this is seen as yet another step on the road of misguided “balancing the past” as opposed to an attempt to drive out the Boer.
    The white South actually believe that the ANC wants them to stay, but revert to the roles that black SAffers had under apartheid, and they are determined to leave rather than fall into that.




  • blackwhite wrote: »
    I’ve yet to here an actual South African use either phrase TBH.

    Any white SAffers I’ve met through work or otherwise have had a fairly consistent complaint that their home country is getting more and more hostile to whites in some misguided attempt to “balance things up.”

    Yet none that I’ve met have ever claimed there’s a genocide, or anything like that, going on.

    The murders and land grabs are not as widespread as some would like to imply - but they make headlines so seem much more prevelant than is reality. Farm nursery’s have decreased over the last 20 years, not increased, it’s just that the internet means people are more exposed to the news now than were before.

    Any SAffer I’ve talked to seems to believe these murders are robberies as opposed to racially motivated - and are symptomatic of an incompetent Govt who don’t want to be seen to clamp down on black crime, but not really related to race.

    There’s a genuine fear and anger around the proposed land grabs - but this is seen as yet another step on the road of misguided “balancing the past” as opposed to an attempt to drive out the Boer.
    The white South actually believe that the ANC wants them to stay, but revert to the roles that black SAffers had under apartheid, and they are determined to leave rather than fall into that.

    Not in my experience of living there. Many definitely do believe farm attacks are racially motivated. Gunshots to the back of the head and nothing robbed, women absolutely and horrifically tortured. It’s not the internet, I have seen first hand how me as white skilled worker imported from Ireland to fill the skills shortages was not counted under BEE but skilled white South Africans with the same qualifications couldn’t get a job cos they were white South African.

    The majority of white South Africans I knew over there didn’t see a future for their kids and were planning exits, others just didnt have the means to plan and were stuck in the situation with bleak prospects.

    The black South Africans I knew also feared the muttering of Julius malema and although were angry about the past, they knew the war talk of Julius would get them nowhere

    It’s a country I left cos I could detach and see where it was going. Living behind electric fences and bars on your windows with armed response is no way to live but it’s become the norm


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,371 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    Not in my experience of living there. Many definitely do believe farm attacks are racially motivated. Gunshots to the back of the head and nothing robbed, women absolutely and horrifically tortured. It’s not the internet, I have seen first hand how me as white skilled worker imported from Ireland to fill the skills shortages was not counted under BEE but skilled white South Africans with the same qualifications couldn’t get a job cos they were white South African.

    The majority of white South Africans I knew over there didn’t see a future for their kids and were planning exits, others just didnt have the means to plan and were stuck in the situation with bleak prospects.

    The black South Africans I knew also feared the muttering of Julius malema and although were angry about the past, they knew the war talk of Julius would get them nowhere

    It’s a country I left cos I could detach and see where it was going. Living behind electric fences and bars on your windows with armed response is no way to live but it’s become the norm


    TBH, the SAffers I know have said the same regarding the future - but because they see the country as doomed to failure due to the incompetence of the ANC, and some because they think that whites will be treated as 2nd class citizens until things reach rock bottom.

    I’ve yet to meet any who’ve claimed that there was a genocide coming.


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  • blackwhite wrote: »
    TBH, the SAffers I know have said the same regarding the future - but because they see the country as doomed to failure due to the incompetence of the ANC, and some because they think that whites will be treated as 2nd class citizens until things reach rock bottom.

    I’ve yet to meet any who’ve claimed that there was a genocide coming.

    I don’t think a genocide will happen as the whites will fight back, it’s at a precarious place at the moment. I have recently the anc has backtracked slightly with AgriSA as the rand is plummeting (not all land but not helping) and investor appetite is falling as land grabs will undermine property rights.

    It’s a waiting game now really, fingers crossed it will stabilize but the hatred and mistrust has surged in recent years


  • Posts: 17,381 Mikaela Defeated Tomcat


    The incredible influx of South Africans into Vietnam continues. You never used to see then and now you hear them everywhere.

    They all the say the same thing about SA right now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    I don’t think a genocide will happen as the whites will fight back, it’s at a precarious place at the moment. I have recently the anc has backtracked slightly with AgriSA as the rand is plummeting (not all land but not helping) and investor appetite is falling as land grabs will undermine property rights.

    It’s a waiting game now really, fingers crossed it will stabilize but the hatred and mistrust has surged in recent years
    One would hope that SA is more sensitive to market forces and foreign investor sentiment than Zimbabwe was, so politicians won't sacrifice the economy at the altar of ideology.

    That said, the value of the Rand has more than halved since 2010. I know less than nothing about SA economics, but that kind of ongoing dismal performance would indicate to me a country that's struggling with political infighting and not paying much attention to their performance on the world stage.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,372 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    US State Department to keep a close eye.

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1032454567152246785


    I know it's Trump but still other governments are also likely to condemn and this is where the reputational damage comes in - exact same path as Zimbabwe.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,246 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    US State Department to keep a close eye.

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1032454567152246785


    I know it's Trump but still other governments are also likely to condemn and this is where the reputational damage comes in - exact same path as Zimbabwe.
    Only because Trump saw Fox News runs a news piece on it; as always Trump has no self awareness of doing any actual research or fact checking on his own and most items can be found by simply looking at what Fox presented in the hour before the tweet.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 417 ✭✭Mancomb Seepgood


    Good Twitter thread from an Afrikaaner perspective on Trump's tweet here: https://twitter.com/lomikriel/status/1032459328417144832?s=19

    Article by Cyril Ramaphosa in the FT today: https://www.ft.com/content/c81543d8-a61b-11e8-926a-7342fe5e173f

    The inequalities in land ownership patterns have to be resolved one way or another,I would hope that expropriation without compensation won't be used against productive farmers (I don't think it will).A long way to go on this but the examples Ramaphosa gave of when it might be appropriate don't seem too outrageous to me.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    This twitter moments sums up some additional facts. SA really is being manipulated by extremists who favour apartheid era South Africa, something that is most definitely not something to be wished for.

    https://twitter.com/i/moments/1032700601870807042


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,372 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Of course the situation is manipulated by extremists.

    Does not change the fact SA is headed the way of Zimbabwe. That is government policy.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,246 ✭✭✭judeboy101


    Dr Brown wrote: »
    Odhinn wrote: »
    A ridiculous and loaded question. He was resisting an evil regime by the means deemed most likely to succeed.


    So its OK to kill innocent people in pursuit of political aims ?

    What makes Mandela any different to the people who carried out the omagh bomb ?
    Good PR, that's what.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,372 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    https://twitter.com/Imamofpeace/status/1033661622995148801

    https://twitter.com/DaanBarnard/status/1034013582130929664


    It seems like an increasingly difficult situation being manipulated by extremists on both sides but the evidence would suggest the lions share of extremism is from elements within the black SA community and egged on by their leaders.

    The question is what will the international community do, if anything, about pogroms against white farmers?

    This will be a difficult question for all of us who were dead set against apartheid because it would be a complete reversal. I would like to see people come out just as strongly against this developing problem as they did then.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 192 ✭✭elli21


    Sorry to bring up an old thread


    Anyone that sits around a spit or a Braai knows how **** will spread
    .

    Now I''m being told that Cork is the main capital of child traficars "globally

    So much bad is happening in SA right now ...but Don't make up ****




  • elli21 wrote: »
    Sorry to bring up an old thread


    Anyone that sits around a spit or a Braai knows how **** will spread
    .

    Now I''m being told that Cork is the main capital of child traficars "globally

    So much bad is happening in SA right now ...but Don't make up ****

    totally confused by your cork reference or what your actually on about


This discussion has been closed.
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