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Workplace charging experience

  • 24-08-2018 4:23pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 4,341 ✭✭✭


    Hi folks,

    Buying an EV very soon and excited.

    Would anyone be able to share experience with arranging charging in their workplace/office? Both in terms of technicalities, economics and also legalities as well negotiating tactics with the employeer.

    Would be interested to hear your advice and your stories.

    I'm thinking about it but not really how to tackle it.

    Cheers.


«13

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 754 ✭✭✭Zenith74


    First thing is do you actually need to charge at work, or is it close enough to home that you could charge over night and get to/from work on a single charge? Sorry know that is an obvious question, but with the ranges of EVs increasing and increasing hopefully there won't be as much of a need for destination charging, and the potentially awkward conversations with employers :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Difficult to say.
    Are you the only person in the company with an EV?
    Is it possible to use a regular outlet to charge from or do you need any thing special = expensive?

    Also
    The Revenue Commissioners have confirmed that charging electric cars at work leaves owners liable to benefit-in-kind tax.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/charging-electric-cars-at-work-brings-benefit-in-kind-tax-liability-1.3155508


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,231 ✭✭✭Orebro


    biko wrote: »
    Difficult to say.
    Are you the only person in the company with an EV?
    Is it possible to use a regular outlet to charge from or do you need any thing special = expensive?

    Also


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/charging-electric-cars-at-work-brings-benefit-in-kind-tax-liability-1.3155508

    That's old news - it has since been confirmed there is no BIK implications for employers to supply free charging.


  • Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Good, please provide a source OP can present for their employer.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,231 ✭✭✭Orebro


    https://www.dccae.gov.ie/en-ie/news-and-media/press-releases/Pages/Ministers-Naughten-and-Ross-reaffirm-commitment-to-Electric-Vehicle-transition.aspx

    "The BIK rules will ensure that there is no BIK liability associated with recharging EVs in workplaces."


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,341 ✭✭✭McGiver


    Zenith74 wrote:
    First thing is do you actually need to charge at work, or is it close enough to home that you could charge over night and get to/from work on a single charge? Sorry know that is an obvious question, but with the ranges of EVs increasing and increasing hopefully there won't be as much of a need for destination charging, and the potentially awkward conversations with employers

    It's actually very close, at the moment. But may change. It's not a necessity at all but rather a convenience i.e. "nice to have" you know what I mean.
    Also, my thinking is that by charging at work I could advertise EVs to the whole company much better.


  • Registered Users Posts: 64,542 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    McGiver wrote: »
    It's actually very close, at the moment. But may change. It's not a necessity at all but rather a convenience i.e. "nice to have" you know what I mean.

    In that case I wouldn't bother. The financial savings are minimal (a few hundred quid per year) and their might be a path of resistance

    You'd be better off negotiating a small salary increase :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Show it off to upper management, maybe they will think it could be good for the company profile.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,141 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    biko wrote: »
    Show it off to upper management, maybe they will think it could be good for the company profile.

    ...or that he over paid driving an EV :)

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,341 ✭✭✭McGiver


    ...or that he over paid driving an EV :)
    Ha! Yes, that's possible but quite a few people with Beemers, Audis and big SUVs around. True, they do not talk about it to the boss...


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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 4,627 Mod ✭✭✭✭tedpan


    Charging is a nightmare at my office.

    We have 2 regular slow chargers. There are at least 15 EVs and 10 Phevs. Every morning it's a race to get one of the spots. I live 65kms away and drive a Leaf 1.5 and need a charge to make it home. Most of my colleagues are decent enough to move once they have enough charge to get home.

    Funnily enough it's the people that live locally or the Phev drivers who leave their car plugged in all day hogging the space.

    There's probably 2 or 3 arguments a week. I mainly use the local public FCP, there are definitely wait times, bit it's far less hassle. We need more chargers!! :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,081 ✭✭✭fricatus


    tedpan wrote: »
    Charging is a nightmare at my office.

    We have 2 regular slow chargers. There are at least 15 EVs and 10 Phevs. Every morning it's a race to get one of the spots. I live 65kms away and drive a Leaf 1.5 and need a charge to make it home. Most of my colleagues are decent enough to move once they have enough charge to get home.

    Funnily enough it's the people that live locally or the Phev drivers who leave their car plugged in all day hogging the space.

    There's probably 2 or 3 arguments a week. I mainly use the local public FCP, there are definitely wait times, bit it's far less hassle. We need more chargers!! :D

    Can it be that hard for all of you to sit down and coordinate? I don't know what kind of work you do, but if it's desk-based, do you use some sort of group chat? Could you even all agree to join a WhatsApp group?

    I would say most people don't want to hog the chargers, and surely they'd be happy to vacate once finished. Maybe the underlying problem is finding a regular space to move their car to when done? If so, you just swap with another EV driver, problem solved.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 4,627 Mod ✭✭✭✭tedpan


    fricatus wrote:
    Can it be that hard for all of you to sit down and coordinate? I don't know what kind of work you do, but if it's desk-based, do you use some sort of group chat? Could you even all agree to join a WhatsApp group?

    That's what you'd think.. There is a WhatsApp group although some don't want to join.
    fricatus wrote:
    I would say most people don't want to hog the chargers, and surely they'd be happy to vacate once finished. Maybe the underlying problem is finding a regular space to move their car to when done? If so, you just swap with another EV driver, problem solved.

    There are plenty of spaces in the car park at all times. The regular hoggers make excuses like they're in meetings or busy and will move it later, others want to charge to 100% even when they have 40kwh batteries, which basically means the whole day..


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,341 ✭✭✭McGiver


    tedpan wrote: »
    That's what you'd think.. There is a WhatsApp group although some don't want to join.



    There are plenty of spaces in the car park at all times. The regular hoggers make excuses like they're in meetings or busy and will move it later, others want to charge to 100% even when they have 40kwh batteries, which basically means the whole day..

    If I can recommend - use Microsoft Teams. It's a new MS take on Slack. Very good product. You can create a private group for your EV folks, the chat is persistent unlike in Skype Group chat, also you can do scheduling etc it fully integrates with Outlook. If your company uses Office 365 you can switch to this straight away, it's part of the package. And there is a mobile app as well. Very few arguments for not joining.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,231 ✭✭✭Orebro


    tedpan wrote: »
    Charging is a nightmare at my office.

    We have 2 regular slow chargers. There are at least 15 EVs and 10 Phevs. Every morning it's a race to get one of the spots. I live 65kms away and drive a Leaf 1.5 and need a charge to make it home. Most of my colleagues are decent enough to move once they have enough charge to get home.

    Funnily enough it's the people that live locally or the Phev drivers who leave their car plugged in all day hogging the space.

    There's probably 2 or 3 arguments a week. I mainly use the local public FCP, there are definitely wait times, bit it's far less hassle. We need more chargers!! :D

    Now that sounds stressful. After cutting my teeth with BEV for the last 18 months I can absolutely say that if I was dependent on work or public charging to get home then I'd be after going back to ICE long ago. We have work charging but I don't bother with it as it's as busy as your workplace - I'm lucky that I can make the round trip comfortably.

    The biggest issue in our place was the same - there were the few that refused point blank to join a WhatsApp group or the like, and that fecks it up for everyone else. I also suggested at one stage that people should register to use the charges and part of this would be having to join a group. No go from management so you're on a hiding to nothing if they don't back you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,349 ✭✭✭denismc


    Interesting!, I work for a company in Cork with over 200 cars in the car park.
    I have yet to see a single car use the chargepoint even though it was installed over 5 years ago.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,231 ✭✭✭Orebro


    denismc wrote: »
    Interesting!, I work for a company in Cork with over 200 cars in the car park.
    I have yet to see a single car use the chargepoint even though it was installed over 5 years ago.

    It's funny really - I was the only one in our place but as soon as people spoke to me about the savings and the benefits of work charging a load of them started appearing! It takes one or two to start people getting curious about them


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,341 ✭✭✭McGiver


    Orebro wrote:
    It's funny really - I was the only one in our place but as soon as people spoke to me about the savings and the benefits of work charging a load of them started appearing! It takes one or two to start people getting curious about them

    That's exactly what I want to do and why started this thread. The si called "community effect"...


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,349 ✭✭✭denismc


    McGiver wrote: »
    That's exactly what I want to do and why started this thread. The si called "community effect"...

    Nah, I would be the opposite, if half the people where I work thought there was something to be had for free they would be all over it like flies on ****


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,802 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    denismc wrote: »
    Interesting!, I work for a company in Cork with over 200 cars in the car park.
    I have yet to see a single car use the chargepoint even though it was installed over 5 years ago.

    We are the opposite.

    We now have approx 5 or 6 EVs in the car park, with no chargers!
    Talk about installations going back about 2 or 3 years, but none have appeared so far.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,341 ✭✭✭McGiver


    Is there any grant for employers?

    What incentives employers have to even bother installing a charger?


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,802 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    McGiver wrote: »
    Is there any grant for employers?

    What incentives employers have to even bother installing a charger?

    To be seen to be an eco-friendly, modern company? My company often lists their green credentials, yet still no chargers.

    I have no doubt most employers would get a decent grant to install chargers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,349 ✭✭✭denismc


    McGiver wrote: »
    Is there any grant for employers?

    What incentives employers have to even bother installing a charger?

    Chargers aren't that expensive, I can't see why most medium or large sized companies can't have at least one installed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,424 ✭✭✭gunnerfitzy


    denismc wrote: »
    Interesting!, I work for a company in Cork with over 200 cars in the car park.
    I have yet to see a single car use the chargepoint even though it was installed over 5 years ago.

    Are any of the employees from Cork? I would be very disappointed in my county brethren if they were to dismiss free fuel so readily. :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,648 ✭✭✭bp_me


    NIMAN wrote: »

    I have no doubt most employers would get a decent grant to install chargers.

    At the very least there is an accelerated capital write off allowance for them to make use of.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,684 ✭✭✭waynegalway


    bp_me wrote: »
    At the very least there is an accelerated capital write off allowance for them to make use of.

    How does that work, and is it something that would help persuade an employer to install a charger?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,648 ✭✭✭bp_me


    How does that work, and is it something that would help persuade an employer to install a charger?

    https://www.seai.ie/energy-in-business/accelerated-capital-allowance/


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,030 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    How does that work, and is it something that would help persuade an employer to install a charger?

    It allows you to write down all the depreciation in year 1 rather than over 8 yrs. So it improves cash flow for the employer as they will then pay less tax that year.

    However, some people misinterpret ACA as "getting the whole thing written off against tax and thus free". Thats not the case.

    As I understand it, and someone can correct me if Im wrong....

    Lets say you buy something under ACA for €10k.
    Lets say you make €100k gross profit that same year.

    You can reduce your notional profit to €90k and then pay 12.5% on that €90k as opposed to splitting the €10k over 8 years and only reducing the €100k profit by €1250 for each of those 8yrs.

    Overall the end result is more or less the same to the employer just that its all done in year 1 and thus improves their cash flow in the short term. Whether thats enough incentive for them to buy it is another question entirely.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,141 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    KC, the approach is correct: just a few points to clarify the difference between depreciation and capital allowances.

    There are two sets of accounts prepared each year by businesses: one in the normal set of accounts where the P&L carries a depreciation charge which is supposed to reflect the charging of the cost of the asset over its useful life.

    Then there is a set of accounts produced to calculate the tax due, this is where the capital allowances [CAs] are used, which are a taxation concept.

    The two accounts are reconciled by adding back disallowable items in the normal P&L, such as depreciation and business entertainment and the like, and then deducting any allowable tax related items such as capital allowances, accelerated and just normal.

    Just for completeness:
    using accelerated capital allowances creates a balance sheet item called Deferred tax ( a liability ) which reflects the fact that by claiming 100% CA's, the tax position in future years has been distorted, as you highlight above, when tax payments will be higher, all other things being equal.

    { this is also how any clawbacks for disposal of an asset before it is fully written off normally for tax purposes is reflected.]

    So to wrap it up:
    Depreciation is an accounting concept
    Capital Allowances are a tax construct
    The two words are not seamlessly interchangeable

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,684 ✭✭✭waynegalway


    KC, the approach is correct: just a few points to clarify the difference between depreciation and capital allowances.

    There are two sets of accounts prepared each year by businesses: one in the normal set of accounts where the P&L carries a depreciation charge which is supposed to reflect the charging of the cost of the asset over its useful life.

    Then there is a set of accounts produced to calculate the tax due, this is where the capital allowances [CAs] are used, which are a taxation concept.

    The two accounts are reconciled by adding back disallowable items in the normal P&L, such as depreciation and business entertainment and the like, and then deducting any allowable tax related items such as capital allowances, accelerated and just normal.

    Just for completeness:
    using accelerated capital allowances creates a balance sheet item called Deferred tax ( a liability ) which reflects the fact that by claiming 100% CA's, the tax position in future years has been distorted, as you highlight above, when tax payments will be higher, all other things being equal.

    { this is also how any clawbacks for disposal of an asset before it is fully written off normally for tax purposes is reflected.]

    So to wrap it up:
    Depreciation is an accounting concept
    Capital Allowances are a tax construct
    The two words are not seamlessly interchangeable

    Very thorough, thanks. Is all of that applicable to public sector employers as well (I'm just not sure if the term "business" is defined to include those)?


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