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Comments

  • #92
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 14,960 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Dr Brown wrote: »
    Was Brian Lenihan Europhobic ?

    He said back in 2009 that “cheap credit from the European Central Bank” and “the availability of cheap labour after 2004” that were the key factors in destroying the Irish economy.

    To be honest that's a bit like saying "If only the shops hadn't stocked so much Chocolate, I wouldn't be a fat diabetic today"

    "Availability of Cheap Credit/Labour" does not force you to "avail" of it..


  • #93
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Dr Brown wrote: »
    Was Brian Lenihan Europhobic ?

    He said back in 2009 that “cheap credit from the European Central Bank” and “the availability of cheap labour after 2004” that were the key factors in destroying the Irish economy.
    That's quite a misrepresentation of what he said. He said that low euro interest rates and cheap labour from Eastern Europe after 2004 were the main reasons for the overheating of the Irish economy which led to the recession, not that the interest rates themselves caused the recession... the cause of the recession was the overheating which he said was caused by "the public appetite for lending, and public appetite for increased purchase of property were part of it."

    That's quite a stark difference to what you're alleging he said.


  • #94
    Dr Brown
    Registered Users Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭Dr Brown


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    To be honest that's a bit like saying "If only the shops hadn't stocked so much Chocolate, I wouldn't be a fat diabetic today"

    "Availability of Cheap Credit/Labour" does not force you to "avail" of it..




    Once we signed up to the Nice treaty we couldn't stop 100s of thousands of East Europeans flooding into Ireland.

    Lenihan was right we lost control of our Immigration policy because of the EU.


  • #95
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 14,960 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Dr Brown wrote: »
    Once we signed up to the Nice treaty we couldn't stop 100s of thousands of East Europeans flooding into Ireland.

    Lenihan was right we lost control of our Immigration policy because of the EU.

    Again - Just because they are there , doesn't mean you have to use them..


  • #96
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Dr Brown wrote: »
    Once we signed up to the Nice treaty we couldn't stop 100s of thousands of East Europeans flooding into Ireland.

    Lenihan was right we lost control of our Immigration policy because of the EU.
    I'd love to hear what provisions in the Treaty of Nice you believe caused this influx of "East Europeans flooding into Ireland"


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  • #97
    Dr Brown
    Registered Users Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭Dr Brown


    FreudianSlippers wrote: »
    I'd love to hear what provisions in the Treaty of Nice you believe caused this influx of "East Europeans flooding into Ireland"


    It allowed for the Eastern countries to join the EU.


  • #98
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,784 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    "I hear you're a racist now Doctor"


  • #99
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Dr Brown wrote: »
    It allowed for the Eastern countries to join the EU.
    That doesn't really answer the question though does it?


  • #100
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,061 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    FreudianSlippers wrote: »
    That doesn't really answer the question though does it?

    There's a pattern there though.

    Ireland, Sweden and the UK are the only countries which didn't implement the measures provided to control migration from the Eastern states.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • #101
    Dr Brown
    Registered Users Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭Dr Brown


    FreudianSlippers wrote: »
    That doesn't really answer the question though does it?




    They wouldn't be able to come here without the Nice Treaty.


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  • #102
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 33,823 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Dr Brown wrote: »
    Once we signed up to the Nice treaty we couldn't stop 100s of thousands of East Europeans flooding into Ireland.

    Other countries chose to restrict movement of labour from the new EU states for some years, the UK and Ireland chose not to.

    On to the next myth we go...

    Life ain't always empty.



  • #103
    Dr Brown
    Registered Users Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭Dr Brown


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    "I hear you're a racist now Doctor"




  • #104
    Dr Brown
    Registered Users Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭Dr Brown


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    Other countries chose to restrict movement of labour from the new EU states for some years, the UK and Ireland chose not to.

    On to the next myth we go...




    Yes and that was one of biggest mistakes the Irish government has ever made.


  • #105
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 33,823 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Dr Brown wrote: »
    Yes and that was one of biggest mistakes the Irish government has ever made.

    So you admit it was a national policy choice then.

    Life ain't always empty.



  • #106
    Dr Brown
    Registered Users Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭Dr Brown


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    So you admit it was a national policy choice then.


    No it was an EU policy that the government accepted.


  • #107
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 33,823 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    You're proving me right and you wrong. Keep it up.

    Life ain't always empty.



  • #108
    Dr Brown
    Registered Users Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭Dr Brown


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    You're proving me right and you wrong. Keep it up.




    What are you talking about ?

    East Europeans are here because of the EU.


  • #109
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Dr Brown wrote: »
    What are you talking about ?

    East Europeans are here because of the EU.
    As has been addressed now, this is inaccurate. Ireland failed to implement rules to address this issue... are you suggesting all Eastern Europeans picked Ireland over all other 14 EU MS at the time for the craic?


  • #110
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 14,960 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Dr Brown wrote: »
    What are you talking about ?

    East Europeans are here because of the EU.
    FreudianSlippers wrote: »
    As has been addressed now, this is inaccurate. Ireland failed to implement rules to address this issue... are you suggesting all Eastern Europeans picked Ireland over all other 14 EU MS at the time for the craic?

    Let's get to the core of the issue shall we?

    What exactly is wrong with Eastern Europeans in Ireland in your view Dr Brown?


  • #111
    relax carry on
    Registered Users Posts: 4,071 ✭✭✭relax carry on


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    Let's get to the core of the issue shall we?

    What exactly is wrong with Eastern Europeans in Ireland in your view Dr Brown?

    Can I suggest South Park covered all his concerns with one addition - "They terk er jerbs/welfare"


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  • #112
    Irish Praetorian
    Registered Users Posts: 1,745 ✭✭✭Irish Praetorian


    Dr Brown wrote: »
    What are you talking about ?

    East Europeans are here because of the EU.


    No idea why people have such an issue with Eastern European migration, considering the alternative is usually non-EU migration from countries with even greater cultural differences and levels of economic desperate that make them willing to tolerate even worse conditions than the EU migrants to this country.


  • #113
    For Forks Sake
    Registered Users Posts: 11,465 ✭✭✭✭For Forks Sake


    relax carry on wrote: »
    Can I suggest South Park covered all his concerns with one addition - "They terk er jerbs/welfare"

    schrodingers%20immigrant.jpg


  • #114
    Irish Praetorian
    Registered Users Posts: 1,745 ✭✭✭Irish Praetorian


    For Forks Sake wrote: »
    Schrodinger's Immigrant


    Is this quip not based on the false assumption that there has only been one immigrant to Ireland in the past X many years? I mean don't get me wrong, if there had only been one migrant I might be tempted to argue for more open borders too, but the number has, I am reliable informed, been in excess of one. Therefore it is possible that whilst one migrant might 'der ur jurb' a second might 'tuk ur welfur'.


    Perhaps a more sober reading might be the belief that a sufficient number of migrants of both categories are arriving in Ireland, or that the two categories are not necessarily mutually exclusive. An example might be say a single mother who arrives in Ireland to work part-time and who as a consequence is still able to claim state assistance in certain categories.


    Don't want to get too weighed down in this debate though, I just have a pet peeve for what I view as egregiously poor or clichéd arguments.


  • #115
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Irish Praetorian wrote: »
    Is this quip not based on the false assumption that there has only been one immigrant to Ireland in the past X many years? I mean don't get me wrong, if there had only been one migrant I might be tempted to argue for more open borders too, but the number has, I am reliable informed, been in excess of one. Therefore it is possible that whilst one migrant might 'der ur jurb' a second might 'tuk ur welfur'.


    Perhaps a more sober reading might be the belief that a sufficient number of migrants of both categories are arriving in Ireland, or that the two categories are not necessarily mutually exclusive. An example might be say a single mother who arrives in Ireland to work part-time and who as a consequence is still able to claim state assistance in certain categories.


    Don't want to get too weighed down in this debate though, I just have a pet peeve for what I view as egregiously poor or clichéd arguments.
    EU Citizens cannot move to another Member State to avail of social welfare benefits - let's nip that nonsense in the bud right away.


  • #116
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    FreudianSlippers wrote: »
    EU Citizens cannot move to another Member State to avail of social welfare benefits - let's nip that nonsense in the bud right away.

    Maybe not in the short-term, but as a longer-term strategy it could be viable.

    e.g. Move to a Greek Island, do any menial low-paid work just to get by, once you qualify for welfare benefits (certain timeframe), develop a 'bad back' and relax on the beach.

    Obvs not Greece as they don't offer 200notes per week inc the Chrissy bonus..


  • #117
    Dr Brown
    Registered Users Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭Dr Brown


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    Let's get to the core of the issue shall we?

    What exactly is wrong with Eastern Europeans in Ireland in your view Dr Brown?


    It's a numbers game there is far too many of them here.


    Mass Immigration brings down wages and puts a strain on public services.


    We will never solve the housing crisis until we stop mass Immigration into Ireland.


    https://www.herald.ie/news/over-half-on-housing-list-are-foreign-27973856.html


  • #118
    Dr Brown
    Registered Users Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭Dr Brown


    Irish Praetorian wrote: »
    No idea why people have such an issue with Eastern European migration, considering the alternative is usually non-EU migration from countries with even greater cultural differences and levels of economic desperate that make them willing to tolerate even worse conditions than the EU migrants to this country.




    Mass Immigration of any kind is bad for Ireland.


  • #119
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,784 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Dr Brown wrote: »
    It's a numbers game there is far too many of them here.


    Mass Immigration brings down wages and puts a strain on public services.


    We will never solve the housing crisis until we stop mass Immigration into Ireland.


    https://www.herald.ie/news/over-half-on-housing-list-are-foreign-27973856.html
    1. If we have "too many" here currently, what then should the optimum number of Eastern Europeans be?
    2. To what extent have wages been brought down as a result of Eastern Europeans being here?
    3. To what extent have public services been strained as a result of Eastern Europeans being here?
    4. How exactly will reducing the number of Eastern Europeans help solve the housing crisis? Are you basing this simply on numbers or on something else?


  • #120
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,784 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Dr Brown wrote: »
    Mass Immigration of any kind is bad for Ireland.
    Are there any positives to us having "mass" immigration?


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  • #121
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,061 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Dr Brown wrote: »
    Mass Immigration of any kind is bad for Ireland.

    Define mass immigration and provide evidence please.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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