Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Dave Keating - Killarney

24

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 427 ✭✭golfguy1


    Lots of infighting going on in Killarney G.C. for years I'm told.

    Not too sure a full time club pro is needed tbh. Lahinch for example doesn't have one.

    Is there a pro in Ballybunion?


    Best club in the world for infighting.
    Lots of members give out about committee's and those on it.
    When it comes to replacing existing committee we have no replacements queing up to replace them.
    Should be interesting to see if they oust the current chairman & committee who will replace them


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 336 ✭✭Benildus


    GreeBo wrote: »
    What makes you think that "the full state of the financial situation is not being shared with the members"?
    Just the fact they couldnt reach an agreement?

    I presume you have no idea what he was asking for, so not sure why you are jumping to the assumption there is some financial irregularity or things being hidden?


    I know what some details of package were and also what was being removed for the new package.


    There is no financial irregularity in KGC and to say otherwise would be slanderous to the current management of the club. What is happening is a lack of communication with the members on the situation re development works & cost, green fees etc


  • Registered Users Posts: 427 ✭✭golfguy1


    Benildus wrote: »
    I know what some details of package were and also what was being removed for the new package.


    There is no financial irregularity in KGC and to say otherwise would be slanderous to the current management of the club. What is happening is a lack of communication with the members on the situation re development works & cost, green fees etc


    If they give u all the details I don't see what difference it makes.
    Green fees have been on the slide for decades in kgc. Can't see that changing as the 2 courses just aren't maintained to the high level of the clubs we are trying to compete with (price).
    So many good value golf around Ireland now. Kg is not seen as good value anymore


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,248 ✭✭✭slingerz


    Its a shame to see such a great club and host of Irish opens in such difficulty. Its a course i love playing and one i think has fantastic potential.

    Hopefully things come together and the courses flourish because they are fantastic courses


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭tvercetti


    Is Lackabane still alive? I still see green fee prices on the KGC website but anytime I have passed there, its looks to just be a Liebherr carpark.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 427 ✭✭golfguy1


    tvercetti wrote: »
    Is Lackabane still alive? I still see green fee prices on the KGC website but anytime I have passed there, its looks to just be a Liebherr carpark.


    9 holes are sill open for play.
    Starting at the old 3rd. Liebherr now own the grounds and lease it back to kgc


  • Registered Users Posts: 241 ✭✭idle


    Article in local paper this week about it headed:

    ‘Bitter row erupts at top golf club’

    Members demanding a special general meeting


  • Registered Users Posts: 427 ✭✭golfguy1


    Any member at tonight's presentation for dk comp. I assume his speech was interesting to say the least


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 336 ✭✭Benildus


    golfguy1 wrote: »
    Any member at tonight's presentation for dk comp. I assume his speech was interesting to say the least


    What presentation was that?


  • Registered Users Posts: 427 ✭✭golfguy1


    Benildus wrote: »
    What presentation was that?

    Dave Keating sponsored comps to the men's and ladies presentation was on last night.
    A lot if talk about it the last few days as to what he might say regarding management.
    It's his last day today


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 336 ✭✭Benildus


    golfguy1 wrote: »
    Dave Keating sponsored comps to the men's and ladies presentation was on last night.
    A lot if talk about it the last few days as to what he might say regarding management.
    It's his last day today


    I get you now, I thought it was some official presentation from Dave to the members.


    The email sent over the weekend was very informative and certainly clarified a few points that had been the subject of misinformation



    The AGM's should be interesting over the next few weeks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 427 ✭✭golfguy1


    Benildus wrote: »
    I get you now, I thought it was some official presentation from Dave to the members.


    The email sent over the weekend was very informative and certainly clarified a few points that had been the subject of misinformation



    The AGM's should be interesting over the next few weeks.

    The email has me baffled as to why he is leaving.
    As I read it he paid the golf club almost €450,000 in commission/???? over a 5 yr period.
    2 things confuse me.
    Why would the club need to change his contract if they were pulling in that kind of money for doing nothing.

    And why is dk leaving if his business in pulling in mega bucks as to be paying out that kind of money in commission/???


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,549 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    golfguy1 wrote: »
    The email has me baffled as to why he is leaving.
    As I read it he paid the golf club almost €450,000 in commission/???? over a 5 yr period.
    2 things confuse me.
    Why would the club need to change his contract if they were pulling in that kind of money for doing nothing.

    And why is dk leaving if his business in pulling in mega bucks as to be paying out that kind of money in commission/???
    Well if he got a better offer that would result in him paying less (or no) commission?


    I have no idea btw, just struck me as a hefty whack to be paying out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 427 ✭✭golfguy1


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    Well if he got a better offer that would result in him paying less (or no) commission?


    I have no idea btw, just struck me as a hefty whack to be paying out.

    I have to assume that figure includes trolley/buggy rental otherwise he is making a big mistake leaving. He told me he had nothing lined up.
    He is keeping the town shop open for the near future


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,960 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    Well if he got a better offer that would result in him paying less (or no) commission?


    I have no idea btw, just struck me as a hefty whack to be paying out.

    Assuming the commission percentage isn't more than 50%, by those numbers he was earning a pretty penny himself too though?


  • Registered Users Posts: 427 ✭✭golfguy1


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Assuming the commission percentage isn't more than 50%, by those numbers he was earning a pretty penny himself too though?

    Commission to the golf club on all crested product was 10% according to my source. The figure must include the 80% of buggy rental and 50% of pull trolley rental otherwise he is raking it in and would no way be leaving


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭Dbu




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 336 ✭✭Benildus


    Any other members here need to check their email now - correspondence received from Management Council :eek:


  • Registered Users Posts: 427 ✭✭golfguy1


    Benildus wrote: »
    Any other members here need to check their email now - correspondence received from Management Council :eek:


    Council and Mr flannery don't get on anyway.
    Imo it seems to be pinning the blame on our gm.
    Had heard a few stories about him and his inability to manage the staff.
    Not sure they can blame him for everything though


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 336 ✭✭Benildus


    Well if some of the items outlined are true (and they would have to be if included in a members communication) then it would appear that some blame lies at his door.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 26,960 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Benildus wrote: »
    Well if some of the items outlined are true (and they would have to be if included in a members communication) then it would appear that some blame lies at his door.

    Hard to manage a club if you are being excluded from Management Council meetings in fairness


  • Registered Users Posts: 427 ✭✭golfguy1


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Hard to manage a club if you are being excluded from Management Council meetings in fairness

    If you read the email, it mentions 2 meetings he was not invited to.
    It also mentions he didn't turn up to some with no reason given for absence.
    A lot of mistakes from both sides.
    Can't see him staying to long more


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,960 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    golfguy1 wrote: »
    If you read the email, it mentions 2 meetings he was not invited to.

    I read the extract from the deloitte report
    He wasn't invited to 2 meetings ergo he was excluded from them.

    He should be invited to *all* meetings, whether or not he turns up to them is a separate concern.

    Two wrongs and all that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,070 ✭✭✭Ollieboy


    Your GM answers to the committee and he's not a member of the committee and he wouldn't have a vote, if he's employed by the club. It would be normal not to have him at a meeting where his contract or employment status is been discussed or any professional issue about that certain employee.

    So they could have had a number of reasons for not inviting him to the meeting, and I don't hold much value in the external report by deloitte.

    The committee runs the club and the GM enforces the committee wishes.

    Without knowing the full details, the pro contract sounds amazing and I would expect any committee worth their salt to renegotiate it and the pro would usually take that personally.

    It sounds like certain people using their popularity with members to get what they want and a weak committee or just bad at communication handle it badly. In two years time everyone will have moved on and forgotten it, people have very short memories.


  • Registered Users Posts: 427 ✭✭golfguy1


    Ollieboy wrote: »
    I don't hold much value in the external report by Deloitte




    It sounds like certain people using their popularity with members to get what they want and a weak committee or just bad at communication handle it badly. In two years time everyone will have moved on and forgotten it, people have very short memories.


    Why would u not value the Deloitte report?

    Your post sums up our gm and committee perfectly


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,070 ✭✭✭Ollieboy


    golfguy1 wrote: »
    Why would u not value the Deloitte report?

    Your post sums up our gm and committee perfectly

    Golfing is a totally different business to most, asking someone to do a report based on interviews with the individual parties and him not knowing and sometimes understanding the club business model makes the recommendations a ticking exercise. If you pay someone to do a report they will give you a report and will try to make it prove its value, I’ve seen hundreds of these reports and very little have much value or change anything afterwards, just look at GUI reports, totally pointless. Paying someone to analysis your business for a few days and given you a accurate report worth any value is impossible and honestly worthless, similar to audit accounts. I would always be more interested in cash flow when analyzing someone’s business and their decision making skills.

    But if the members elected the committee to run the club then you need to trust them as they have all the facts and usually can’t share them with members. This is why captains who are not elect don’t run clubs, but committees should have the business knowledge and expertise to run the club. If they don’t, then why elect them?

    Remember, you can always vote them out and run yourself and do a better job, It’s not easy to run a business part-time and your GM needs to tell you everything and they won't because it might not suit them or be in their interest to admit mistakes. Hence a good chairman will know and question everything and they are very hard to find when not paying them, but GM gets paid and can always blame the committee but he/she cant also take the credit when things go well.


  • Registered Users Posts: 744 ✭✭✭ShivasIrons


    Who would you prefer to get advice from and run a club?



    Two trained and experienced professionals in the golf world or sheep farmers, accountants, solicitors etc who have no experience in running a golf club.


    If anybody wants to know why golf clubs are struggling in Ireland, just look at their committees. Very few if any have any idea how to run a club.


  • Registered Users Posts: 427 ✭✭golfguy1


    Who would you prefer to get advice from and run a club?



    Two trained and experienced professionals in the golf world or sheep farmers, accountants, solicitors etc who have no experience in running a golf club.


    If anybody wants to know why golf clubs are struggling in Ireland, just look at their committees. Very few if any have any idea how to run a club.


    With regard to killarney.
    The pro LEFT the club, his choice, he was not asked to leave or sacked.
    As for our gm. Questions have to be asked of his ability to run a business of that size after reading committee email
    He also had no experience of management before getting job.


  • Registered Users Posts: 744 ✭✭✭ShivasIrons


    golfguy1 wrote: »
    With regard to killarney.
    The pro LEFT the club, his choice, he was not asked to leave or sacked.
    As for our gm. Questions have to be asked of his ability to run a business of that size after reading committee email
    He also had no experience of management before getting job.


    What did Cormac Flannery do before starting in Killarney?


    If you were asked to take a sizeable pay cut in your job, what would you do? Why should Dave Keating do anything differently?


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 427 ✭✭golfguy1


    What did Cormac Flannery do before starting in Killarney?


    If you were asked to take a sizeable pay cut in your job, what would you do? Why should Dave Keating do anything differently?

    Cormac was assistant pro to Dave Keating for a short while.
    He also worked in the middle East at a club.

    I would have been happy for dk to stay as our pro but if the club can't afford him what option had they


Advertisement