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Are you an moron?

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2

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  • Options
    #32
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,231 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    B-D-P-- wrote: »
    an moron??

    Macaronic statement.

    An moran = the moran, as gaeilge.


  • Options
    #33
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,382 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    Hunky Monster wrote: »
    Currently on zero charge. Waiting half an hour. Two Nissan leafs parked in both charging spots. Not charging, just parked.

    They’re not your personal fûcking parking spots. They’re CHARGING spots.

    I’m getting absolutely sick of this. It’s not even worth it anymore.

    Thought you had an plug-in hybrid?


  • Options
    #34
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,794 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    neddynasty wrote: »
    Any examples of these users?

    I'd like to go EV for the 2nd car in the household in the next 12-18 months but not going to do it without home charging and I don't have a driveway.


    I've on-street parking outside my house

    Post #10 in this thread has more details


    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057776204


  • Options
    #35
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,872 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    unkel wrote: »
    Yeah that's an issue. There have been regular users on this forum though who live in an apartment or in a house without a driveway who have successfully installed a charger. But I think they did have to jump through a few hoops alright to get it sorted.

    And nobody is saying that going EV is suitable for 100% of the people right now. It will take time for this transition to complete. Even now, there are only about 3,000 EVs on the road in Ireland out of 2,000,000 cars in total. That's just 0.15%. We are still in the "Innovator" stage of this change and won't move into the "Early adaptor" stage until there are at least 50,000 EVs on our road, which is probably about 2 years away.

    Unfortunately my complex will be impossible to install a charge point. It's unassigned surface parking and there is no power supply. It would require major work and then I wouldn't be guaranteed the place

    That's the problem with the introduction of EV. There's not enough to make supplying enough chargers and because the system is free so there's no profits to be made for new players, I know that some companies have got plans for more chargers but we'll have to see if people will pay to use then enough vs waiting for the free network . For every other innovation its the early adapters who pay a premium and the infrastructure is built from them, then as its adopted by the masses the price decreases. With EV its being done the wrong way.


  • Options
    #36
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,794 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Really what we need is a law similar to California.
    Mutli Unit Dwellings must either provdide or facilitate the installation of charging infrastructure.

    I can forsee outsourced charging infrastructure in apartment car parks.
    There's an EU building reg update which requires 10% of spaces in apartment blocks to to be equipped for charging, DLR have already included it in their planning regs.


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    #37
    DrPhilG
    Registered Users Posts: 12,195 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    unkel wrote: »
    That's a bit of a dismissive statement. There are already budget 64kWh EVs with 500km range. Most will rarely / never use the public charging network. Many current EV owners, even those whose cars have less than 100km range, never use the network

    The problem is that many of those current ev owners use the network because its free, not because they need it.

    And I guarantee that the same way the network is starting to choke up with 40kwh Leafs, it will soon do the same with Konas and Niros.


  • Options
    #38
    samih
    Registered Users Posts: 2,795 ✭✭✭samih


    DrPhilG wrote: »
    The problem is that many of those current ev owners use the network because its free, not because they need it.

    And I guarantee that the same way the network is starting to choke up with 40kwh Leafs, it will soon do the same with Konas and Niros.

    Exactly. The 60 kWh local users will have 50 percent bigger incentive per charge to use the public free charging spoiling it for the users that genuinely need to get to their destination by using the charging nework.

    Based on my experience this summer I'm quite happy to pay 40 c/kWh (or even better 20 c per minute) to avoid needless "hoggage" by locals.

    Unfortunately for OP there is not much that can be done (apart from calling APCOA) if people just use charging spaces as their personal parking spaces when not plugged in.


  • Options
    #39
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,872 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    liamog wrote: »
    Really what we need is a law similar to California.
    Mutli Unit Dwellings must either provdide or facilitate the installation of charging infrastructure.

    I can forsee outsourced charging infrastructure in apartment car parks.
    There's an EU building reg update which requires 10% of spaces in apartment blocks to to be equipped for charging, DLR have already included it in their planning regs.

    To install chargers in my complex it would destroy our sinking fund and then some. Why should home owners in MUDs, already subsiding the state by providing the services the council do for non MUD developments, by made to use commercial networks on their property when people are getting free charge points.

    The government should be grant aiding existing MUDs to install charging networks and let the commercial sector look after the motorway and trunk network.


  • Options
    #40
    Soarer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,858 ✭✭✭Soarer


    DrPhilG wrote: »
    The problem is that many of those current ev owners use the network because its free, not because they need it.

    And I guarantee that the same way the network is starting to choke up with 40kwh Leafs, it will soon do the same with Konas and Niros.

    Really?


  • Options
    #41
    mr chips
    Registered Users Posts: 608 ✭✭✭mr chips


    DrPhilG wrote: »
    The problem is that many of those current ev owners use the network because its free, not because they need it.


    I wonder if this is at least in part due to conversations with the dealer/seller creating an expectation that this is the norm.
    "And you'll never have to pay to fill up again, sure charging is free at the public network."
    "Jaysus, is that so?"


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    #42
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    DrPhilG wrote: »
    unkel wrote: »
    That's a bit of a dismissive statement. There are already budget 64kWh EVs with 500km range. Most will rarely / never use the public charging network. Many current EV owners, even those whose cars have less than 100km range, never use the network

    The problem is that many of those current ev owners use the network because its free, not because they need it.

    And I guarantee that the same way the network is starting to choke up with 40kwh Leafs, it will soon do the same with Konas and Niros.
    Many though, or just an annoying few?
    We've been driving EV since the start of 2015, coming up on 4 years now in january. Both our family cars are EV. We charge at home and at work. I actually can't remember the last time I used a public charger. Three other EV owners on our street, same as us, just charge at home or at work. 
    You'd want to be a seriously time rich person who would go around looking for free leccie. 
    A lot of the reason we got the second EV, is that neither of us wanted to go driving off to stinking petrol stations to put petrol in the other car. It's just so damn easy to drive into a space a work and come out to a fully charged car. Never going out of our way. I can't imagine going off wasting my time doing, what I consider to be petrol/diesel behaviour in an EV. Why would you bother? It costs pennies to fill it at home, or zilch at work. I value my time.

    And for those reading the threads, thinking the whole thing is a shambles.... Those of us who have no problems whatsoever with the set-up, don't really have much to chime in with. "All grand here for us lads. Carry on"... gets a bit boring. ;)


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    #43
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,872 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    pwurple wrote: »
    Many though, or just an annoying few?
    We've been driving EV since the start of 2015, coming up on 4 years now in january. Both our family cars are EV. We charge at home and at work. I actually can't remember the last time I used a public charger. Three other EV owners on our street, same as us, just charge at home or at work. 
    You'd want to be a seriously time rich person who would go around looking for free leccie. 
    A lot of the reason we got the second EV, is that neither of us wanted to go driving off to stinking petrol stations to put petrol in the other car. It's just so damn easy to drive into a space a work and come out to a fully charged car. Never going out of our way. I can't imagine going off wasting my time doing, what I consider to be petrol/diesel behaviour in an EV. Why would you bother? It costs pennies to fill it at home, or zilch at work. I value my time.

    And for those reading the threads, thinking the whole thing is a shambles.... Those of us who have no problems whatsoever with the set-up, don't really have much to chime in with. "All grand here for us lads. Carry on"... gets a bit boring. ;)

    But what happens at work when there are more cars than chargers? Then you'll have to hunt for a charge point.


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    #44
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,794 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Del2005 wrote: »
    To install chargers in my complex it would destroy our sinking fund and then some. Why should home owners in MUDs, already subsiding the state by providing the services the council do for non MUD developments, by made to use commercial networks on their property when people are getting free charge points.

    The government should be grant aiding existing MUDs to install charging networks and let the commercial sector look after the motorway and trunk network.


    That's why their was the second option, facilitate the installation.
    As an EV owner, you should be entitiled to install a private charger entirely at your own cost.


    The state/semi state should not be installing private access chargers. I've no problem with them giving a subsidy just as they do for private driveway owners.


    Realistically their are a few options.
    1. MUD installs chargers and does not bill.
    2. MUD installs chargers and bills back to users.
    3. MUD outsources chargers to commercial entity.
    4. Owner is allowed to install charger at own cost, and pays bill on their own.

    You should probably follow up on that sinking fund, a charging pedestal can be installed for around €2,000. The sinking fund should be much higher than that.


  • Options
    #45
    DrPhilG
    Registered Users Posts: 12,195 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    Soarer wrote: »
    Really?

    Yes really. I've read a number of reports already of people getting stuck behind them. Some with rapidgate, some just taking longer to charge due to the bigger battery and having the same selfish attitude that many drivers of other cars have.

    Twice a week I visit my dad after work. To do that I need to use the fast charger in Letterkenny. I generally go to the charger first, then if its in use I can come back after I visit instead.

    In the last few months I've gone from about 90% success rate on the first visit, to 50/50. And it's not just a local hog either. I have seen at least 5 different 40kwh Leafs there in the last few months. 2 NI cars, a Cork car and a few DLs.

    And that's Donegal, I expect it's much worse in Dublin and Cork. And will only get worse as more and more are delivered.

    Add in a high number of 64kWh cars (and reports suggested as many as 700 Konas due into Ireland in 2019) and we're looking at a major shltstorm.

    That's one of the main reasons I'm in a hurry to get one. A 64kWh car would leave me only reliant on the network half a dozen times a year at most and by then hopefully Ionity will be coming online.

    PS that was a comment on the number of EVs on the road and the attitude of Irish owners in general about free charging. It wasn't an attack on the 40kwh Leaf in particular, lest you get all triggered. ;)


  • Options
    #46
    MEGA BRO WOLF 5000
    Registered Users Posts: 17,394 ✭✭✭✭MEGA BRO WOLF 5000


    Can confirm it’s getting harder and harder to charge at Public points. Easily 95% of the time they’re full either with parked cars or delivery vans. Sometimes other EVs are charging or most recently two Leafs just using them as their personal parking space.

    A HUGE HUGE problem is delivery vans/tradesman vans just using the space as a loading bay or parking space.

    Like I said an EV is something I’ll come back to in a few years. There needs to be multiple places to charge at petrol stations, not one or two spots. Ten minimum.

    When we’re at a point where every petrol station and supermarket has these things installed then it’s the right time to go back. I can’t be arsed.


  • Options
    #47
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,164 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    Have a look at this twitter account.
    https://twitter.com/DisabledParkers

    If as a nation we can't even keep disabled bays for those that need them then what fuppin hope have EVs?


  • Options
    #48
    MEGA BRO WOLF 5000
    Registered Users Posts: 17,394 ✭✭✭✭MEGA BRO WOLF 5000


    ED E wrote: »
    Have a look at this twitter account.
    https://twitter.com/DisabledParkers

    If as a nation we can't even keep disabled bays for those that need them then what fuppin hope have EVs?

    Until they start to crush cars that have no reason to be parked in disabled bays we're at nothing. It's something I've never done and will never do.


  • Options
    #49
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    Del2005 wrote: »
    pwurple wrote: »
    Many though, or just an annoying few?
    We've been driving EV since the start of 2015, coming up on 4 years now in january. Both our family cars are EV. We charge at home and at work. I actually can't remember the last time I used a public charger. Three other EV owners on our street, same as us, just charge at home or at work. 
    You'd want to be a seriously time rich person who would go around looking for free leccie. 
    A lot of the reason we got the second EV, is that neither of us wanted to go driving off to stinking petrol stations to put petrol in the other car. It's just so damn easy to drive into a space a work and come out to a fully charged car. Never going out of our way. I can't imagine going off wasting my time doing, what I consider to be petrol/diesel behaviour in an EV. Why would you bother? It costs pennies to fill it at home, or zilch at work. I value my time.

    And for those reading the threads, thinking the whole thing is a shambles.... Those of us who have no problems whatsoever with the set-up, don't really have much to chime in with. "All grand here for us lads. Carry on"... gets a bit boring. ;)

    But what happens at work when there are more cars than chargers? Then you'll have to hunt for a charge point.
    Well, I only use it twice a week usually.  There are 26 charge points and 10 cars using them so far. I've been in places with less chargers, where people book the work ones like you book a meeting room etc.


  • Options
    #50
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 19,678 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    unkel wrote: »
    How about a 90% drop in fuel cost compared to diesel? :p

    That is such a typically Irish viewpoint. Running costs vs system cost.


  • Options
    #51
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,794 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    cnocbui wrote: »
    That is such a typically Irish viewpoint. Running costs vs system cost.


    Kind of the opposite really, the system cost would include the running cost plus the purchase price.


    If you own a car for 5 years and do 20,000km the running cost is ~€8,500 less.
    If the ICE is €20,000 and the EV €25,000 then system cost over 5 years is €30,000 (ICE) vs €26,500 (EV).


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    #52
    Soarer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,858 ✭✭✭Soarer


    DrPhilG wrote: »
    Yes really. I've read a number of reports already of people getting stuck behind them. Some with rapidgate, some just taking longer to charge due to the bigger battery and having the same selfish attitude that many drivers of other cars have.

    Twice a week I visit my dad after work. To do that I need to use the fast charger in Letterkenny. I generally go to the charger first, then if its in use I can come back after I visit instead.

    In the last few months I've gone from about 90% success rate on the first visit, to 50/50. And it's not just a local hog either. I have seen at least 5 different 40kwh Leafs there in the last few months. 2 NI cars, a Cork car and a few DLs.

    And that's Donegal, I expect it's much worse in Dublin and Cork. And will only get worse as more and more are delivered.

    Add in a high number of 64kWh cars (and reports suggested as many as 700 Konas due into Ireland in 2019) and we're looking at a major shltstorm.

    That's one of the main reasons I'm in a hurry to get one. A 64kWh car would leave me only reliant on the network half a dozen times a year at most and by then hopefully Ionity will be coming online.

    PS that was a comment on the number of EVs on the road and the attitude of Irish owners in general about free charging. It wasn't an attack on the 40kwh Leaf in particular, lest you get all triggered. ;)

    Fair enough. I don't put much store in "reports" though, 'cause I could report I've never seen an L40 rapid charging. Don't mean diddly.

    As for your experience, I'm sure you wouldn't begrudge a Cork car a fill of juice! ;)

    The others are probably only there 'cause it's free though. :rolleyes:


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    #53
    Soarer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,858 ✭✭✭Soarer


    cnocbui wrote: »
    That is such a typically Irish viewpoint. Running costs vs system cost.

    If you take everything (tax, insurance, servicing, purchase price, fuel, etc.), it works out a lot worse for the diesel.


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    #54
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 19,678 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    liamog wrote: »
    Kind of the opposite really, the system cost would include the running cost plus the purchase price.


    If you own a car for 5 years and do 20,000km the running cost is ~€8,500 less.
    If the ICE is €20,000 and the EV €25,000 then system cost over 5 years is €30,000 (ICE) vs €26,500 (EV).

    2013 Nissan Leaf 24KWh Tekna - 0-100 kph in 11.5s - € 35,690

    2013 Nissan Note 1.2 DIG-S Tekna - 0-100 kph 11.7s - € 21,040

    Price difference - €14,650

    Astonishingly, the price of petrol is currently about €146.5. So that is enough to purchase exactly 10,000 litres of petrol, which at the stated combined 4.3l/100km would be enough to get you 233,000 km

    So if you presume an ownership until 130,000 km, the petrol Note has a far lower ownership cost than the Leaf - by such a significant margin I haven't even bothered to work out the additional electricity cost for the Leaf.


  • Options
    #55
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,070 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    cnocbui wrote: »
    2013 Nissan Leaf 24KWh Tekna - 0-100 kph in 11.5s - € 35,690

    2013 Nissan Note 1.2 DIG-S Tekna - 0-100 kph 11.7s - € 21,040

    €35k for a Leaf? I presume you are referring to pre-grant price?
    No owner has ever paid €35k for a Leaf so why are you using that for TCO?

    I wouldn't consider a Note as comparable to a Leaf either so thats a bad data point. A Tekna Pulsar would be more appropriate and the price differential there is about €5k.

    I think you need to rework those figures.


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    #56
    Soarer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,858 ✭✭✭Soarer


    cnocbui wrote: »
    2013 Nissan Leaf 24KWh Tekna - 0-100 kph in 11.5s - € 35,690

    2013 Nissan Note 1.2 DIG-S Tekna - 0-100 kph 11.7s - € 21,040

    Price difference - €14,650

    Astonishingly, the price of petrol is currently about €146.5. So that is enough to purchase exactly 10,000 litres of petrol, which at the stated combined 4.3l/100km would be enough to get you 233,000 km

    So if you presume an ownership until 130,000 km, the petrol Note has a far lower ownership cost than the Leaf - by such a significant margin I haven't even bothered to work out the additional electricity cost for the Leaf.

    Why are you talking about the price of new cars from 5 years ago?


  • Options
    #57
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 19,678 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    KCross wrote: »
    €35k for a Leaf? I presume you are referring to pre-grant price?
    No owner has ever paid €35k for a Leaf so why are you using that for TCO?

    I wouldn't consider a Note as comparable to a Leaf either so thats a bad data point. A Tekna Pulsar would be more appropriate and the price differential there is about €5k.

    I think you need to rework those figures.

    2014 Nissan Pulsar DIG-T 115 Acenta 0-100 kph 10.7s € 22,340

    Price difference is now only, €13,350, but you get a ≈ 1s quicker car.

    Add the €3,510 for electricity for the Leaf and price difference for 130,000 k is €8,671 in favour of the Pulsar.

    I used https://www.cars-data.com for the specs and car prices and €0.18 kw electricity http://www.moneyguideireland.com/electricity-prices


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    #58
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,070 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    cnocbui wrote: »
    2014 Nissan Pulsar DIG-T 115 Acenta 0-100 kph 10.7s € 22,340

    Price difference is now only, €13,350, but you get a ≈ 1s quicker car.

    Add the €3,510 for electricity for the Leaf and price difference for 130,000 k is €8,671 in favour of the Pulsar.

    Your figures are still wrong....see below.
    You need the price that people actually pay(i.e. after grant), not RRP.
    And you need to compare same size and spec car.... Acenta is a different spec. The difference is €5k... check it out.
    cnocbui wrote: »
    I used https://www.cars-data.com for the specs and car prices and €0.18 kw electricity http://www.moneyguideireland.com/electricity-prices

    I'm not even going to look at those websites. Get your figures from the manufacturers website on .ie and come back with the real figures. We can debate from there.

    EDIT: People dont charge their cars (generally speaking) on daytime rate electricity either. So you are out by a factor of 2 on that as well. Your figures and comparisons are just rubbish from start to finish... sorry for being blunt but they just are.


  • Options
    #59
    Padraig Mor
    Registered Users Posts: 9,534 ✭✭✭Padraig Mor


    Hunky Monster wrote: »
    A HUGE HUGE problem is delivery vans/tradesman vans just using the space as a loading bay or parking space.
    .

    It's OK - they'll only be a few minutes......:rolleyes:


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    #60
    MEGA BRO WOLF 5000
    Registered Users Posts: 17,394 ✭✭✭✭MEGA BRO WOLF 5000


    Padraig Mor wrote: »
    It's OK - they'll only be a few minutes......:rolleyes:

    There’s a charge point about 50 meters from my office, in three months I haven’t used it once. It’s a particular favorite of a white van driver in the area. I’d love to meet him.


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    #61
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    Calahonda52 wrote: »
    In August I changed jobs and because of the changing driving portfolio for work, I now have a cheap 2nd hand petrol car for return trips over 170 kms summer/150kms winter on a 30kW as I can't rely on the network when scheduling meetings in different towns across Munster and Connaught.
    So it can work if you really wanted it to.

    ....did I read this correctly - that your cure for range limitation was to buy a 2nd - cheap, petrol - car ?

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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