Will I be okay without home/work charging in the Greystones/Bray area?

kuro68k · 24-09-2018 12:29pm #1

Looking at getting a Niro EV, 500km range. Been a long time EV owner in the UK, recently moved to Ireland.

From what I can see the public charging infrastructure is okay here. Rapids at some supermarkets, for example. As I live in an apartment I won't be able to charge at home, and it doesn't look like work will put a charge point in either, so I'd be reliant on public spots.

Is this a good idea? People with EVs, is there much contention for the CCS rapids and type 2 chargers? I saw a couple of points in Dundrum shopping centire, with a Zeo charging. Would probably be charging at the weekends mostly, maybe do an evening shop and charge up a bit.

Sensible or am I going to be screwed?

KCross · 24-09-2018 12:51pm

Not recommended.

Since its a weekly charge you will be doing you will be looking, presumably, for 50kWh+ to be added? That will take 1hr+ as the rapids are 45kW max and are single points of failure. One rapid in your area so you will be at the mercy of it to be working and available to you every week. Thats a big risk right now based on the eCars network reliability.

There are some Ionity chargers in planning but not near you.

If you dont think you will need 50kWh per week and you think slow chargers at shopping centres etc would suffice then you have options there alright. There are slow public chargers in Bray etc.
Look at the map: https://www.esb.ie/our-businesses/ecars/charge-point-map

unkel · 24-09-2018 1:10pm

kuro68k wrote: »

From what I can see the public charging infrastructure is okay here.

No it isn't. It was ok until maybe earlier this year, but the maintenance is poor and the system can't cope with the increase of EVs on the road, particularly cars that need a long time to fast charge. Every single fast charger in the country can only fast charge 1 car at a time, which was fine in 2010, but not so much in 2018

kuro68k wrote: »

I saw a couple of points in Dundrum shopping centire, with a Zeo charging. Would probably be charging at the weekends mostly, maybe do an evening shop and charge up a bit.

Sensible or am I going to be screwed?

If you regularly go to shopping centres like that and stay for the day, then yes, sure you can charge your car up. Only a few chargers in Dundrum though, so far they are ok, but I wouldn't rely on them being available going forward. In fact, I'd put money on them not being available most of the time (and particularly at weekends) in about a year from now

If I were you, I'd make sure I had either a charger at work, or at home. If not, up to you, but you might open yourself up to a world of pain and inconvenience with an EV in Ireland. Even with a long range one like a 64kWh Niro

slave1 · 24-09-2018 1:46pm

Current EV ownership in Ireland is home/destination charger, you cannot depend on the network, if your nearest rapid is down it could be down for weeks.
If there's a queue you could be hours and this will wear you down fast...

liamog · 24-09-2018 2:06pm

If you have 3/4 rapid chargers within 20km of your home and are willing to charge at anti-social times you'll be fine. (if you buy a car with a long range)
Many of the people advising it only works if you charge at home/work have never had to live with public only charging.

It won't be easy, and their will definately be times you are fustrated, but the cost savings of running an EV can be well worth it.
The public rapid charge network maxes out at 125A, so the max you'll see is 50kW depending on your car and state of charge.
Ionity is coming, but will only really cover your long journeys as they are not entering the suburban market at this time.

KCross · 24-09-2018 3:03pm

liamog wrote: »

If you have 3/4 rapid chargers within 20km of your home and are willing to charge at anti-social times you'll be fine. (if you buy a car with a long range)
Many of the people advising it only works if you charge at home/work have never had to live with public only charging.

He says Bray/Greystones area.... that gives him one rapid available.... unless you count the one further south on the M11 but would you realistically do a 30km round trip for your weekly 1hr+ charge in the hope its free when you get there?

Would you buy an EV and be dependent on one rapid on an ongoing weekly basis with how the network is working today (not when you were using it)? As pointed out, if that goes out of service he could be without a charge for weeks. He needs to go in with his eyes open here. No amount of fuel savings is going to make up for that frustration.

It really depends on what distance he is driving each week and whether he has multiple opportunities to topup each week (i.e. he is passing the charger anyway) rather than making a special trip to a rapid once a week... the latter is lunacy with our network.

And he needs over an hour to charge a 64kWh Niro.... not 30mins in an Ioniq. Its a much bigger ask.

unkel · 24-09-2018 3:11pm

slave1 wrote: »

if your nearest rapid is down it could be down for weeks.

My nearest fast charger (the busiest fast charger in the country) has been down for 3 weeks (for CCS charging)

liamog wrote: »

If you have 3/4 rapid chargers within 20km of your home and are willing to charge at anti-social times you'll be fine.

It might have been fine for you back last year or early this year, but there were far fewer EVs on the road back then and there were no Leaf 40kWh (they are everywhere in the Dublin area now, as I'm sure you've seen yourself). Where you are based (north west Dublin) is probably the only tiny geographical area in the country with 3-4 fast charging points within 20km too

liamog · 24-09-2018 3:20pm

Blanchardstown really is the Milton Keynes of Ireland, lots of roundabouts and apparently enviable rapid charge infrastructure

KCross · 24-09-2018 3:31pm

There have been just over 1000 EV's sold this year to date and they are mostly 40kWh Leaf's (~700)

With Niro and Kona coming next year there will probably be another 700 of those alone joining the network in 2019 and another, at a guess, 1500-2000 Leaf's.

So by the end of 2019 there could(likely I'd say) be 2500 or so new EV's on the road (we only have ~3500 in total to date) and thats not accounting for s/h imports that will also come in from the UK. That's a massive increase, relatively speaking, with no improvement in the network itself.

The network is going to be creaking in a years time unless Ionity is up and running or the govt manage to spend some of that €10m they had in last years budget on new rapids, which they said they would!

kuro68k · 24-09-2018 3:47pm

Depressing reading... Was really looking forward to the Niro EV but it sounds like unless I can convince work to let me charge I might be screwed. Problem at work is parking, there are only so many spaces by the building and the higher ups like to use them.

Apartment management company said installing charging there was basically impossible and wouldn't happen for political reasons, despite them having electricity in the car park for street lighting.

Hate driving a fossil again, but looks like I may be stuck with it. Shame the Niro doesn't so 22kW AC charging because then the shopping centres would be fine for a 3 hour stop, but at 7kW it's not going to put much in.

Shame they didn't put something in Charlestown.

KCross · 24-09-2018 3:50pm

kuro68k wrote: »

Depressing reading... Was really looking forward to the Niro EV but it sounds like unless I can convince work to let me charge I might be screwed. Problem at work is parking, there are only so many spaces by the building and the higher ups like to use them.

Apartment management company said installing charging there was basically impossible and wouldn't happen for political reasons, despite them having electricity in the car park for street lighting.

Hate driving a fossil again, but looks like I may be stuck with it. Shame the Niro doesn't so 22kW AC charging because then the shopping centres would be fine for a 3 hour stop, but at 7kW it's not going to put much in.

Shame they didn't put something in Charlestown.

Do you drive passed a rapid everyday or would you have to go out of your way to go to one?

kuro68k · 24-09-2018 3:57pm

KCross wrote: »

Do you drive passed a rapid everyday or would you have to go out of your way to go to one?

A little out of my way to the one at Tesco. Would have to combine it with some shopping, an hour is okay. But since there is only one it's a single point of failure too...

Sounds like I need to get work on board or I'm screwed.

KCross · 24-09-2018 4:04pm

kuro68k wrote: »

Problem at work is parking, there are only so many spaces by the building and the higher ups like to use them.

kuro68k wrote: »

Sounds like I need to get work on board or I'm screwed.

Or become one of the "higher ups"!!

Charlie-Bravo · 24-09-2018 4:07pm

Bray area is pretty low are charging points alright. Greystones, there are none; Shocking stuff really. Would you consider a PHEV, or dare I say it, a self charging hybrid?

KCross · 24-09-2018 4:12pm

kuro68k wrote: »

Apartment management company said installing charging there was basically impossible and wouldn't happen for political reasons, despite them having electricity in the car park for street lighting.

Might be worth having another crack off the management company. They might have just fobbed you off as its the easiest thing for them to do.

Propose a solution rather than presenting a problem and do the leg work for them. They might entertain it then?

There are solutions like Ubitricity that might suit since they already have power at lamp posts near the spaces.

kuro68k · 24-09-2018 4:14pm

astrofluff wrote: »

Bray area is pretty low are charging points alright. Greystones, there are none; Shocking stuff really. Would you consider a PHEV, or dare I say it, a self charging hybrid?

I thought about it but I really don't see the point of a hybrid. I'm done with fossil fuels, or so I thought...

I'd rather wait, find somewhere better to live if it comes to that, and get another EV. But then I have to suffer this fossil until then.

This really sucks.

kuro68k · 24-09-2018 4:20pm

KCross wrote: »

Might be worth having another crack off the management company. They might have just fobbed you off as its the easiest thing for them to do.

They sent a quite detailed response which surprised me. What it boils down to is that to install anything they would need to get planning permission and permission from all the apartment owners, 250 odd any of whom could veto it. Even if that happened they couldn't install just one, they would have to offer it to everyone so would need to commit to installing as many as were reasonably needed.

It's frustrating because I'm sure if a few of us here had EVs we could easily share a single 13A socket, but of course it all has to be done formally and legally and what have you.

Soarer · 24-09-2018 4:37pm

kuro68k wrote: »

Looking at getting a Niro EV, 500km range. Been a long time EV owner in the UK, recently moved to Ireland.

From what I can see the public charging infrastructure is okay here. Rapids at some supermarkets, for example. As I live in an apartment I won't be able to charge at home, and it doesn't look like work will put a charge point in either, so I'd be reliant on public spots.

Is this a good idea? People with EVs, is there much contention for the CCS rapids and type 2 chargers? I saw a couple of points in Dundrum shopping centire, with a Zeo charging. Would probably be charging at the weekends mostly, maybe do an evening shop and charge up a bit.

Sensible or am I going to be screwed?

Might be worth budgeting an extra few quid, and asking work if you can pay to get the chargepoint installed.
It'd really make life so much easier for you.

Gumbo · 24-09-2018 9:44pm

Soarer wrote: »

Might be worth budgeting an extra few quid, and asking work if you can pay to get the chargepoint installed.
It'd really make life so much easier for you.

+1
And its tax deductible or some nonsense like that for your Employer.

Shefwedfan · 24-09-2018 9:47pm

Ok a couple of options I can see

First, management companies are lazy f**kers. They will send a response full of c**p so you wont ask again. It might be worth doing 2 things
1. Go back to the management company and ask will they raise with residents? remember you should have AGM every year, ask when that is....
2. Print up letters and deliver to people in the building. Explain how it could be an advantage to the residents longer term.

You need to keep on their back, the automatic answer from these companies will always be no.....

I guess you have requested a paid charger from management company? so like a euro per hour to charge? or what exactly did you request?

Second....work
I am sure your company has some sort of environmental officer, first get all the info in regards to government grants etc and approach him. Whatever you do don't mention this is a charger because you can't install one at home. They hate that....just say it could be good for office etc......

We have similar at one of our offices, most of the spots are saved for management with a few vacant spots, again I would go with paid charger but ask can one spot be designated but still used for standard cars unless required by staff.....as it is work office you could buy a long charger cable and run it over to car and block in a few cars, leave you numbers...after a while people will get hint......

kuro68k · 24-09-2018 10:10pm

I suggested a simple locked box with key rental to cover the electricity cost.

Work might be an option but the way the car parking is I'm not optimistic. 13A socket would only give me 24kWh in an 8 hour work day too. A 32A wallbox would at least get me 80%, and would make it easier to justify for sharing with other employees.

I think you are right, I should have some info on costs and incentives for them.

KCross · 24-09-2018 10:18pm

kuro68k wrote: »

...13A socket would only give me 24kWh in an 8 hour work day too.

So, what distance is your commute?

FYI: A granny charger will give you about 10A and 2kW to the battery so more like 16kWh in 8hrs.

16kWh is still going to get you 100km+ so that, I presume, is more than enough considering you said a 500km car would do you for a week?

Obviously a 7kW charge point is better but if it is the difference between getting the car and not, maybe a 13A socket would do initially and then chip away at the employer over time to get the proper charger in?

Shefwedfan · 24-09-2018 10:30pm

kuro68k wrote: »

I suggested a simple locked box with key rental to cover the electricity cost.

Work might be an option but the way the car parking is I'm not optimistic. 13A socket would only give me 24kWh in an 8 hour work day too. A 32A wallbox would at least get me 80%, and would make it easier to justify for sharing with other employees.

I think you are right, I should have some info on costs and incentives for them.

Don’t suggest free, a wall socket if free...you will be getting preferential treatment....HR will say no....

Paid 7kW Charger with a cost against it, euro every hour or something like that, won’t be as cheap as Home Charger but you don’t have to pay 1k for installation of Home charger

kuro68k · 24-09-2018 10:36pm

Round trip is about 25km/day, not particularly flat or efficient so let's say a 250Wh/km, that would use over 6kWh/day so I'd be able to add maybe 10kWh/day with a 13A socket. So a week to get 80%, but then it would be my dedicated space and I don't think they would go for that.
I'm screwed, aren't I?

kuro68k · 24-09-2018 10:38pm

Of course I'd offer to pay for it. 7kW charger I'd happily throw in 10 euro a day for 8 hours.

kuro68k · 26-09-2018 9:47am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

First, management companies are lazy f**kers. They will send a response full of c**p so you wont ask again. It might be worth doing 2 things
1. Go back to the management company and ask will they raise with residents? remember you should have AGM every year, ask when that is....
2. Print up letters and deliver to people in the building. Explain how it could be an advantage to the residents longer term.

I spoke to them again on email. The issue is that most people there are renting, so the people who have a say in this are the landlords. They aren't really interested because it's a landlord's market so there is little incentive to improve the facilities, and having chargers will push up insurance costs.

Even if many of them did want it, all it takes is one to object and apparently they have had problems with people with too much time on their hands before.

I am sure your company has some sort of environmental officer, first get all the info in regards to government grants etc and approach him. Whatever you do don't mention this is a charger because you can't install one at home. They hate that....just say it could be good for office etc......

We have similar at one of our offices, most of the spots are saved for management with a few vacant spots, again I would go with paid charger but ask can one spot be designated but still used for standard cars unless required by staff.....as it is work office you could buy a long charger cable and run it over to car and block in a few cars, leave you numbers...after a while people will get hint......

Yeah, problem is that every space by the office is allocated and the only non-allocated ones are a way off to the side and can be used by other companies around here. The company would have to give up one valuable parking space, and I've been here two weeks...

kuro68k · 27-09-2018 12:38pm

Has anyone tried renting a driveway one night a week?

Not even sure where to start looking, but it might be an option.

fricatus · 28-09-2018 8:22am

KCross wrote: »

There are some Ionity chargers in planning but not near you.

As a matter of interest, does anyone know how many concrete locations have been identified for Ionity, or how many planning applications there are, versus the number of locations they've said they'll set up in Ireland.

liamog wrote: »

Ionity is coming, but will only really cover your long journeys as they are not entering the suburban market at this time.

Surely there will be one or more in the south Dublin/north Wicklow area? It's not just a suburban area - it's a major through route from Wicklow/Wexford to everywhere from Galway around to Belfast.

If there was a site opening along the M50 south of the Red Cow, I would think the OP's problem would be solved.

KCross · 28-09-2018 10:36am

fricatus wrote: »

As a matter of interest, does anyone know how many concrete locations have been identified for Ionity, or how many planning applications there are, versus the number of locations they've said they'll set up in Ireland.

Surely there will be one or more in the south Dublin/north Wicklow area? It's not just a suburban area - it's a major through route from Wicklow/Wexford to everywhere from Galway around to Belfast.

If there was a site opening along the M50 south of the Red Cow, I would think the OP's problem would be solved.

There is an Ionity thread in the forum and I think 3 planning applications have been lodged so far. They plan to have 9 locations in Ireland.

I dont think there is one around Bray/Greystones earmarked but they havent confirmed the other locations yet so who knows.

I certainly wouldnt be buying a Niro EV in 191 on the hope that Ionity will solve his problem down the line.

kuro68k · 28-09-2018 10:49am

I wrote to the Greystones councillors, Grainne Mc Loughlin replied to say that there should be some charging at the harbour going in. No idea what, probably more 22kW posts... Ideally a rapid and a bunch of 7kW posts would be ideal.

KCross · 28-09-2018 10:58am

kuro68k wrote: »

I wrote to the Greystones councillors, Grainne Mc Loughlin replied to say that there should be some charging at the harbour going in. No idea what, probably more 22kW posts... Ideally a rapid and a bunch of 7kW posts would be ideal.

Dont hold your breath for DC rapids coming from councils.

AC chargers is likely all you'll get from them and that means you will be limited to 7kW on a Niro EV.

Will I be okay without home/work charging in the Greystones/Bray area?

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