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Rugby>Ireland Team Talk X: The Long Hard Road to a Semi. SEE MOD WARNING POST #1
Zzippy 23:20 06-02-2019 (2 Thanks)
Continued from here. All Ireland Senior XV related talk here.

MOD: Bear in mind this thread is starting during the 6N window and the zero tolerance policy is in force. Trolling will be rewarded with an instant ban. For the duration of the tournament any mention of Zebo in this thread will not be permitted, it is just dragging current Ireland squad talk off topic.

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Venjur 23:38 06-02-2019 (6 Thanks)
Ireland Team Talk Thread X: Jesus that England game was a massive pile of s**te.
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Former Former 23:38 06-02-2019
From the old thread


Originally Posted by :
Can we just step back from VDF for a minute and ask what does he bring besides tackling?

Is SOB a better...

Carrier? Yes

Poacher? Yes

Link man? Yes

I must stress I do like VDF but I feel he gets over hyped on here when people see tackling stats. We need an international 7 to do more than tackle. I think its the reason why a fully fit SOB and even Leavy will start above him every time
I think it's the opposite tbh. I think because his work rate is so good in defence, it's all people associate with him. He's a very good poacher and linkman. Definitely not an explosive carrier but not many 7s are.

Comparing him to SOB isn't fair because SOB is one of the best players we've ever had in any position. He's a freak. VDF is better than Leavy and has been preferred to him almost all the way along.

I don't think VDF is hard done by btw. He's always going to lose out to SOB, that's just pro sport. I'd rather see our best players in their best positions rather than shoehorning SOB into 8.
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P.Walnuts 23:54 06-02-2019 (1 Thanks)
Originally Posted by Former Former:
From the old thread




I think it's the opposite tbh. I think because his work rate is so good in defence, it's all people associate with him. He's a very good poacher and linkman. Definitely not an explosive carrier but not many 7s are.

Comparing him to SOB isn't fair because SOB is one of the best players we've ever had in any position. VDF is better than Leavy and has been preferred to him almost all the way along.

I don't think VDF is hard done by. He's always going to lose out to SOB, that's just pro sport.
I normally agree with pretty much everything you post....but here we have some differences

For a start against the AB's at home Leavy was selected ahead of VDF at 7, and then cried off on the Friday. But in the biggest game of the season it was a clear indication on who Joe rates higher.

I guess it's hard to judge it completely tbf as they both have had checkered injury records so there isn't a large ample size available of them being both fit.

Another point I don't agree in is that he is a good poacher. That simply isn't true, he may slow down ball, but he does not jackal like SOB and Leavy. He gets blown out of the breakdown more often than not.

Again I stress, I do appreciate what he brings to the table, and when POM is poaching and Stander carrying then we get away with it, but when they don't our backrow quickly becomes very underpowered and well.....average.
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irishbucsfan 00:08 07-02-2019 (2 Thanks)
Originally Posted by Former Former:
From the old thread




I think it's the opposite tbh. I think because his work rate is so good in defence, it's all people associate with him. He's a very good poacher and linkman. Definitely not an explosive carrier but not many 7s are.

Comparing him to SOB isn't fair because SOB is one of the best players we've ever had in any position. He's a freak. VDF is better than Leavy and has been preferred to him almost all the way along.

I don't think VDF is hard done by btw. He's always going to lose out to SOB, that's just pro sport. I'd rather see our best players in their best positions rather than shoehorning SOB into 8.
Also massively underestimating the importance of decision-making and presence in a test-level 7, VDF is ever-present leading the defensive line and setting incredible pace when we need linespeed. We don't need that against every opponent but when we do need it he's the best man for the job.

SOB is special, but VDF is one of the best 7s in Europe at the moment.
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errlloyd 00:10 07-02-2019 (12 Thanks)
Ireland Team Talk Thread X: The Long Hard Road to a Semi.
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Squidgy Black 00:17 07-02-2019 (3 Thanks)
Originally Posted by errlloyd:
Ireland Team Talk Thread X: The Long Hard Road to a Semi.
Could also be the title to Jaco's autobiography.
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swiwi_ 08:27 07-02-2019 (1 Thanks)
Ireland Team Talk Thread X: “It’s tall good men”
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Rigor Mortis 08:59 07-02-2019 (6 Thanks)
Ireland Team Talk Thread X: “Dr.Strangehate: How I learned to stop worrying and love Ewan McKenna"
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Interested Observer 09:36 07-02-2019 (1 Thanks)
I still don't think we've any evidence that SOB is still the player he used to be. I can't think of any time since the Lions that he's really put in a massive performance. Obviously a lot of that is injury related but it's an age ago.

He started against Argentina in the AIs, had go off injured again, Leavy came in for him and honestly was a huge improvement. Similarly Leavy was outstanding all through the championship last season. He should be starting if fit imo.
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arsebiscuits1 09:41 07-02-2019 (6 Thanks)
Ireland Team Talk Thread X gonna give it to ya
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Buer 09:52 07-02-2019 (1 Thanks)
Originally Posted by Interested Observer:
I still don't think we've any evidence that SOB is still the player he used to be. I can't think of any time since the Lions that he's really put in a massive performance. Obviously a lot of that is injury related but it's an age ago.
I think SOB's ceiling is obviously higher than any other option at flanker in Irish rugby but, with that said, it's very much up in the air if he is able to play to that level any longer. He has started about 10 games of rugby since the Lions tour and I would guess he has departed injured in about 4 of those and he certainly never got back to the same heights that he showed us in NZ.

He's going to need some sort of run of 3 or 4 games before he's back up to speed. At 32, it simply isn't a case any longer that he can just bounce back from injury and deliver a huge performance. He has had a couple of appearances now over the past few weeks but I'd much prefer if he had been allowed play for Leinster against the Scarlets to get some extra game time in his legs.

If his body holds up, I think he'll go well enough at the weekend but I'm quite dubious as to whether we'll ever see the SOB of old again at this point. Given his injury issues over the years, I think it's even a mild surprise his career has made it to 32.
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roverjoyce 10:07 07-02-2019
SOB's best position is 6 as proved on the Lions
He should be compared against POM
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arsebiscuits1 10:09 07-02-2019 (3 Thanks)
Originally Posted by roverjoyce:
SOB's best position is 6 as proved on the Lions
He should be compared against POM
I totally agree...

...Except he started at 7 in all 3 test games pushing the captain who was an excellent 7 out of position ;)
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stephen_n 11:24 07-02-2019 (5 Thanks)
Ireland team talk thread X : It’s a long, long way to Yokohama
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