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Peter Casey believes Travellers should not be recognised as an ethnic minority

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    #9572
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    They fulfill the test outlines in this section of the Act:

    if the written material, words, behaviour, visual images or sounds, as the case may be, are threatening, abusive or insulting and are intended or, having regard to all the circumstances, are likely to stir up hatred.

    Read this thread for numerous examples of the hate he stirred up.

    You can keep on rubbishing the idea, you cannot disprove it though.

    Casey didn't engage in hate speech though. Seems though you are trying to make him answerable for what others have said. That's funny.


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    #9573
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Uncharted wrote: »
    You love this craic,don't ya Francie.

    You're like a less interesting but more doggedly determined Aongus Von Bismarck.

    Never change Francie,please never change... :)

    Judging by his post count on here, I'd say he does.


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    #9574
    The Bishop Basher
    Registered Users Posts: 4,279 ✭✭✭The Bishop Basher


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    They fulfill the test outlines in this section of the Act:

    if the written material, words, behaviour, visual images or sounds, as the case may be, are threatening, abusive or insulting and are intended or, having regard to all the circumstances, are likely to stir up hatred.

    Read this thread for numerous examples of the hate he stirred up.

    You can keep on rubbishing the idea, you cannot disprove it though.

    The only people who stir up hatred are travelers themselves through their antisocial, aggressive and threatening behavior..


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    #9575
    coolshannagh28
    Registered Users Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭coolshannagh28


    Varadker has a lot to answer for here , prior to winning the leadership of FG he was seen to be on the right of the party spectrum and gained a lot of support for that , however since he became Taoiseach he has pushed a very liberal agenda and left room for a disillusioned right of centre portion of the electorate to gravitate towards the likes of Casey.
    FF have moved left with FG so there is room for an articulate right of centre party/leader.


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    #9576
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    tretorn wrote: »
    People are upset because Tubridy presented a non threatening group of travellers to the country last night. I predicted this is what he would do but it’s another kick in the teeth to rural people to see this response by the national broadcaster to the misery that led to them voting for Casey.

    If the majority of the thirty thousand travellers are good law abiding citizens who go to college and then work why did 347,000 people vote for Peter Casey.

    RTE should remember who pays the licence fee and who doesn’t.

    Tubridy and his rude questions about where Casey got his money, I think this was the first question asked. Tubridy is on a huge salary and every licence payer is being fleeced to pay for his nose in the trough. He isn’t afraid to leave his house in case someone arrives pretending to be selling something but in reality looking for an opportunity to rob it.

    Why didn’t Tubridy ask the travellers how come many appear to be wealthy but officially the vast majority claim welfare payments, if its ok to ask Casey where he made his money then ask the travellers the same question.

    tuberty asked the questions that needed to be asked. he was interviewing casey, not discussing travelers as such. i have no doubt people are upset because casey was challenged and they do not like their heroes or anyone who tells them what they want to hear being challenged but that is their problem. casey couldn't answer a simple question, but that's not tuberty's fault and i don't particularly rate the guy in terms of presenting the lls. being challenged and being unable to answer is not a kick in the teeth to rural people or anyone, rural people are not a homogenous group who think the same.
    it's not rte's job to only have people in the audience that suit your agenda. that's not how this works. casey made mostly generalisations and therefore he was fair game for being asked the same questions toards him, that you would like to have been asked toards travelers, but for which is irrelevant given the context of the show and who it was interviewing.
    tretorn wrote: »
    Casey didnt make attacks on anyone.

    He said he couldnt understand why travellers got ethnic status and can you reply to the question I put previously.

    What is there about their culture that is deserving of ethnic status, why is it being proposed that my children should learn about their culture in school. How would you fill even one lesson time if after hundreds of posts here no one can explain what traveller culture is.

    The rest of your post is just nonsense and its people like you are the major stumbling block in the State not enforcing the right of traveller children to a decent lifestyle beginning with their right to education being enforced without exception even if that means a Garda escort to school in the morning.

    Keep on keeping on the way you are going and in twenty years time the current travellers infants will mostly still be uneducated and therefore unemployable and untrustworthy. The girls will still be taken out of school at sixteen and married off because their parents have ensured they have no escape route because they have been denied an education, the resistance to education is probably mostly coming from male travellers because how can they exert their dominance through their fists if their wives and daughters have economic independence and arent pregnant every nine months from age sixteen.

    ETA, people voted for Casey for one reason and one reason only and that was to do with real concerns about travellers.

    If you look at the pattern of voting Caseys main support came from areas where travellers are present in large numbers, things have never been worse between travellers and people who abide for the most part rules in civi society and for the most part dont cause problems for their neighbours.

    Its time now to stop Government funding of Pavee Point, its serving no purpose, for the love of God wouldnt you think someone from that outfit would acknowledge that the travellers are responsible for Peter Caseys success and no point in deflecting the elephant in the room by shouting racism. Own up to the effects members of your community are having on rural Ireland for the love of God.


    it's a mix of culture, genetics and more that determines ethnic status as far as i understand. i'm sure those making the determination can be trusted to know what they are doing.
    it is being proposed that children should learn about traveler culture and history so that people can understand where travelers came from and learn the trials and tribulations of this ethnic minority throughout history.
    it is actually others who are the stumbling block to the state not enforcing a traveler's right to a decent lifestyle and education, by voting in the same 2 parties, who will not give all of the relevant authorities the resources they need to enforce the rules, and by complaining about the government spending money on programs to specifically help travelers.
    professore wrote: »
    A government that gives the likes of Margaret Cash €50k tax free in benefits and free heqlthcare for having 7 kids. And a free house down the road. Something the vast majority of working families could only dream about. And yet they are supposed to feel sorry for her???

    That's extreme left socialism.

    I have no problem feeling sorry for her kids. Not for the likes of her though.

    the reason she gets those supports is for the sake of the children. if she was a single person she would not be a priority, rightly or wrongly.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #9577
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    People keep saying his vote was about the travelers. Yes a part of it was that. Another part was speaking the truth and his rightful claim of workers not being rewarded! You’re made feel like a pariah here, for someone who would probably agree with the conservatives, ie those currently governing Britain!!!

    speaking the truth that happens to be more opinion then truth? certainly a thing for the likes of casey and his followers.
    how are workers not being rewarded? what should we get as a reward for doing what we need to do to survive? why should we be rewarded? surely the services we get, while far from perfect, are in theory at least, the reward.
    it's not surprising people would have an issue with people agreeing with the conservative party of britain, a party who has effectively attempted to destroy britain from within. destruction of public services. large scale inequality and large parts of the country in terminal decline and deprivation. all of this since 1979. and now, the removal of britain from a large trading block which has hugely benefited it in terms of trade deals and more. deals they are in no way going to get outside the EU.
    Idbatterim wrote: »
    He already called RTÉ a joke on RTÉ in one of the last presidential debates ... how much of a vote winner do you guys think RTÉ license fee abolition would be and make it a subscription service or they rely on advertising and sponsorship income to fund their services only...

    rte isn't going to be made a subscription service. it's a public service and while far from perfect, a lot of it is streets ahead in terms of some of the other offerings about.
    Idbatterim wrote: »
    We have an outrageous welfare state and fifty percent marginal tax rate over a very low income ... I’d call it left leaning government. Large public service , unsackable public and civil servants. What would you call it?!

    realistic. we need a public service to deliver public services. to insure those services can operate effectively they will need manpower and resources. that means lots of people working within them.
    the wellfare state is over-exaggerated. the amount on wellfare in terms of the population is small. there is never going to be enough work for everyone or enough jobs that pay a fair wage. that is why we simply throw the few who are unemployable wellfare but they are a tiny minority of welfare recipients. pensions, disability, even children's allowence.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #9578
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,169 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Casey didn't engage in hate speech though. Seems though you are trying to make him answerable for what others have said. That's funny.
    if the written material, words, behaviour, visual images or sounds, as the case may be, are threatening, abusive or insulting and are intended or, having regard to all the circumstances, are likely to stir up hatred.

    His comments on 'travellers are basically people who camp on other people's land' would to any reasonable ear be covered by the bolded word in the Act.

    If you don't think that was an 'insulting' comment then of course you won't see it as hate speech.
    But then again, Casey's comments were intended to incite people like you.


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    #9579
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    His comments on 'travellers are basically people who camp on other people's land' would to any reasonable ear be covered by the bolded word in the Act.

    If you don't think that was an 'insulting' comment then of course you won't see it as hate speech.
    But then again, Casey's comments were intended to incite people like you.

    Can you prove that Casey "intended" to incite people?
    If you cannot then your point is moot.


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    #9580
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,169 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Can you prove that Casey "intended" to incite people?
    If you cannot then your point is moot.

    That is for the authorities to decide.

    He was making a 'pitch' to be elected.


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    #9581
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,751 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    It doesn't matter that Casey is unpolished in media performances, because that is what they are, performances. It is his message however garbled that is important. People have been silenced up to his arrival on the scene, now they feel they may after all have a voice at last.

    The fact that he was a bit muddled was kinda fun, and I reckon he is winding up everyone with talk of the P Park, joining FF and becoming Teeshock and so on, but his primary message still stands. Travellers are NOT a different race, they are Irish with an often nasty sub culture, but that is all.

    In fact by gaining ethnic status Travellers have further corralled themselves into a corner with labels galore. At the end of the day they are Irish and really should abide by the rules that all the rest of us have to observe day in day out.

    Casey is also a champion for those out working paying into the SW fund. Pensioners Disabled and Carers excepted, most people working are fed up of the long term unemployed cohort who appear to have everything handed to them, whilst those out working and paying for it get absolutely nothing apart from Child Benefit and an under six MC.

    Think about the equality there. Or lack thereof. That is the message I am getting from Casey anyway. About bloody time too.

    If Casey or anyone else wants to make big reforms then they need to look at where the tax money and the borrowed money goes. No point in tinkering round the edges with plans to replace Air Corps planes with helicopters, or put all the travellers in a reservation in Phoenix Park. The big money goes on Social Welfare, Health and Education.

    https://whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie/en/

    If all the unemployment payments were eliminated, and all the travellers killed off, it would only make a small dent in overall spending. He did not address the question of how much he would take away from the social welfare payments going to Middle Ireland.


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    #9582
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    That is for the authorities to decide.

    He was making a 'pitch' to be elected.

    Simple answer - impossible to prove.
    You wasted your time.


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    #9583
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,912 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    Has anyone read the full page article in today’s Irish Times by Rosita Boland?
    “Abusing Travellers is racism for liberals”

    During the journalists visit to a traveller encampment a child brought in an anonymous note from a letter box which the journalist had to read because the parents couldn’t read. The note contained 2 cartridges and a threat that if they didn’t stop racing their horses on the road one of them would be killed.

    One of the Travellers later said “we saw Peter Casey on the TV. We were shocked at what he said. He didn’t say anything good at all about us. He is definitely a racist”.

    Yes I read it. But nothing new there. No voice for anyone other than the Travellers really.


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    #9584
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    Yes I read it. But nothing new there. No voice for anyone other than the Travellers really.

    Tugging at heartstrings.
    Rubbish journalism.


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    #9585
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,912 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    If Casey or anyone else wants to make big reforms then they need to look at where the tax money and the borrowed money goes. No point in tinkering round the edges with plans to replace Air Corps planes with helicopters, or put all the travellers in a reservation in Phoenix Park. The big money goes on Social Welfare, Health and Education.

    https://whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie/en/

    If all the unemployment payments were eliminated, and all the travellers killed off, it would only make a small dent in overall spending. He did not address the question of how much he would take away from the social welfare payments going to Middle Ireland.

    Yes sure, you have a point. But realistically people want a voice. Start small, and work upwards.

    All people want is a voice. The big picture can wait a bit to catch up after we have found our voice!


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    #9586
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,751 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    Yes sure, you have a point. But realistically people want a voice. Start small, and work upwards.

    All people want is a voice. The big picture can wait a bit to catch up after we have found our voice!

    It's hardly very original to give out about travellers. People have been having a go at them for years.


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    #9587
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,912 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    tayto lover wrote: »


    Tugging at heartstrings.
    Rubbish journalism.

    I don't do Twitter or FB (sanity saved there anyway!), but would love if anyone in this country could point me in the direction of ANY media outlet that speaks for people who have been blighted by Travellers, and/or are sick of commuting for hours to their job that pays for everyone else, whilst those who are not working get to live within the canals and get cheap rent, healthcare, scripts, possibly free travel and so on.

    Not fair.


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    #9588
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,912 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    It's hardly very original to give out about travellers. People have been having a go at them for years.

    Who listened to those who pay for it all though?


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    #9589
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,751 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    Who listened to those who pay for it all though?

    Those who pay for it all get by far the most out of the system as well. Social Welfare goes in the main to those who would call themselves Middle Ireand, and the country spends vast amounts of money to educate their children.


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    #9590
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I know you guys have difficulty comprehending stuff, so i will leave this here again. It is more than adequately explained here that what Casey engaged in was 'hate speech'. Read it slowly.

    And I'll leave this here.
    Again.
    In bold.

    ''Everyone should be treated equally and the State should not discriminate against anybody.''

    -Peter Casey


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    #9591
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,751 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Omackeral wrote: »
    And I'll leave this here.
    Again.
    In bold.

    ''Everyone should be treated equally and the State should not discriminate against anybody.''

    -Peter Casey

    I set up a company and then gave it to my wife. Peter Casey. Sounds as if he is a bit more equal than most of us.


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    #9592
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    His comments on 'travellers are basically people who camp on other people's land' would to any reasonable ear be covered by the bolded word in the Act.

    If you don't think that was an 'insulting' comment then of course you won't see it as hate speech.
    But then again, Casey's comments were intended to incite people like you.

    Fact is not an insult.


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    #9593
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,912 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    I set up a company and then gave it to my wife. Peter Casey. Sounds as if he is a bit more equal than most of us.

    I don't know what your point is really, unless you are envious.


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    #9594
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Why are you so huffy about it being called 'hate speech'?

    Because it's bullsh*t
    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    You hate travellers, man up and say it.

    Why don't you go ahead and read some of my posts from this very thread.
    Originally Posted by Omackeral
    Another thread, another boat load of people like rabid dogs ready to get the digs in at travellers and tar them all as horrendous criminals. Then, on the flip side, you have the same people over and over who'll defend them no matter what they do. It's all getting very repetitive. There's a such thing as middle ground here folks.
    Originally Posted by Omackeral
    If I heard someone non chalantly just describing any given Traveller as a knacker, they'd be the type of person I'd generally avoid. So there's a little gauge of my moral compass.
    Originally Posted by Omackeral
    I abhor anyone who'll write a child off because of his parents and if any of my mates openly called travellers "knackers" I wouldn't let it slide, I hate that casual slur getting free reign.
    Originally Posted by Omackeral
    I actually agree with you. I wouldn't discriminate against any singular chap or lady, settled or Traveller. I give everyone, and I mean everyone, the benefit of the doubt until they give me a reason not to.
    Originally Posted by Omackeral
    I fcuking DESPISE racists and bigots. If anyone uttered the word n*gger viscously near me, I'd remove myself from their company. If someone casually refers to travellers as knackers, I automatically like them a hell of a lot less. However, I think the reputation that travellers have isn't just made up out of nowhere.
    Originally Posted by Omackeral
    Said it before and I'll say it again. I can absolutely understand why a publican wouldn't be keen on hosting a Traveller wedding. The reputation didn't come from nowhere. On the other hand, my heart goes out to any traveller lad or lady who simply wants to just be a normal member of society and get a job or study. Automatically put down before you're even given a shot. Imagine how hard that is.

    And this one is just for you Francie, you fcuking liar.
    Originally Posted by Omackeral
    Good post. There's always a middle ground. I work with plenty of Travellers and have great time for them and their families. However I work in a jail so they're not there for being good either. Basically, take everyone as you find them would be my advice but at the same time, I can understand why a publican might feel uneasy booking a Traveller wedding.

    Bite me.


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    #9595
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    Blaaz wrote: »
    You seem to be sure of alot of things....minute ago yous were sure they laughed at them?

    Wouldn't suprise me tbh...the gaurds are usually just trash people.anyway

    Banned before I got to reply. Nice chatting to you anyway John Connors.


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    #9596
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,751 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    I don't know what your point is really, unless you are envious.

    I'm not envious but I am contemptuous of someone who pays no tax here telling the rest of us how the country should be run.


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    #9597
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Can you prove that Casey "intended" to incite people?
    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    That is for the authorities to decide.
    That'll be a no


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    #9598
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,912 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Well IMO, one thing is for sure, the Casey issue has taken the heat off SF for their abysmal performance in the Prez election. Bet they are delighted they don't have to justify this, instead they will watch from the sidelines as the media and the ordinary working man/woman fight it out.

    SF, oh yes. I would personally think that there are a number of SF TDs and members who might just branch off eventually. The whiff of cordite and Kingsmill bread on the head etc. is just so toxic to those SF wish to woo.


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    #9599
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    His comments on 'travellers are basically people who camp on other people's land' would to any reasonable ear be covered by the bolded word in the Act.

    If you don't think that was an 'insulting' comment then of course you won't see it as hate speech.
    But then again, Casey's comments were intended to incite people like you.

    Serious question here for ya Francie, would you have been less upset if he had said :

    "many (or even "some")travelers are basically people who camp on other people's land"? Thereby acknowledging that some don't?

    Are you denying that many travelers do camp on other people's land?

    Just trying to figure out what it is you're objecting to? The generalization that all travelers camp on other people's land (we know and accept that some don't) or the fact he pointed out that some do?


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    #9600
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,912 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    I'm not envious but I am contemptuous of someone who pays no tax here telling the rest of us how the country should be run.

    OK.

    Tax laws are worldwide. There are many people working here who have US citizenship. They are taxed on their worldwide income and gain credit against that for any tax paid here. It is a global thing. There are hundreds of Double Taxation Treaties in force here, for obvious reasons.

    If any income is generated here by Casey, he will have to pay tax on it. But when calculating his US tax he will get credit for that.

    This kind of small mindedness has us hitching up our trousers with string.


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    #9601
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I know you guys have difficulty comprehending stuff...

    It seems that you think anyone who voted for Casey is part of a hive mind of bigotry and hatred. It's so weird. Plenty of the ''bigots'' who voted for Marriage Equality to be introduced voted for Mr Casey, explain that one.


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