Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Time to get rid of USC, Property tax

Options
2

Comments

  • Options
    #32
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Property tax should be abolished, CAT should be abolished (for close relations anyway), DIRT aboilshed, CGT significantly reduced, entry point to higher rate of tax significantly increase, higher rate of tax reduced and high rate of USC for higher earners got rid of.

    But USC should be kept as it’s the only tax some people pay who are below the threashold for income tax and rather than expecting middle and higher earners to fund low earners low earners should be contributing themselves.


  • Options
    #33
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,645 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Ubbquittious wrote: »
    But we could get rid of both the USC and the property tax. Property tax euros are worth no more than regular ones, nor are the USC euros worth more. It shouldn't be terribly hard to make savings equal to the sum of both and with the Single Malt closing we could even lumber on with our wasteful ways and not bother with either of these taxes.

    The USC is just a combination of two levies which existed before for many years. If such a long standing income stream went, it would inevitably lead to increases in income tax and/or PRSI. Same answer in the end. The only advantage if it can be seen as such, is that USC is deducted from some of those who do not contribute to the income tax pot.


  • Options
    #34
    baldbear
    Registered Users Posts: 5,529 ✭✭✭baldbear


    We are a welfare state. The USC can't be removed at this stage especially with Brexit around the corner.

    Madness & irresponsible to get rid of both.


  • Options
    #35
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    Nayeli Thousands Fax wrote: »
    Property tax should be abolished, CAT should be abolished (for close relations anyway), DIRT aboilshed, CGT significantly reduced, entry point to higher rate of tax significantly increase, higher rate of tax reduced and high rate of USC for higher earners got rid of.

    And the rest of the money should come from magic money tree. We need to tax unearned income more in fact.

    But USC should be kept as it’s the only tax some people pay who are below the threashold for income tax and rather than expecting middle and higher earners to fund low earners low earners should be contributing themselves.

    The usc should be abolished though.


  • Options
    #36
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    We also need to reduce all farmer subsidies.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #37
    Ubbquittious
    Registered Users Posts: 6,188 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    We also need to reduce all farmer subsidies.


    Maybe if we get the fishing back and curb the flow of imported food into Ireland that we can grow here


  • Options
    #38
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    The abolition of rates was a strategic disaster this state has never quite got over. It was done to centralise power at the expense of local authorities and it's why your council is now beholden to the Dept of Finance to get much done and why commercial rates are as high as they are.


  • Options
    #39
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Definitely. Get that tax base nice and narrowed up again................


  • Options
    #40
    omega man
    Registered Users Posts: 4,726 ✭✭✭omega man


    USC is actually quite a progressive tax. We need income tax reform, specifically tackling the ridiculously high marginal rates for middle income earners.


  • Options
    #41
    Townton
    Registered Users Posts: 93 ✭✭Townton


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    The USC is just a combination of two levies which existed before for many years. If such a long standing income stream went, it would inevitably lead to increases in income tax and/or PRSI. Same answer in the end. The only advantage if it can be seen as such, is that USC is deducted from some of those who do not contribute to the income tax pot.

    Dont need an increase if you trim down the size of government. Plenty of things to cut.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #42
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    And the rest of the money should come from magic money tree. We need to tax unearned income more in fact.




    The usc should be abolished though.

    You couldn’t be more wrong on both counts. Lower earners need to contribute and your or the governments paws shiuld not get near other people’s savings, gifts/inheritances and should get a very small amount from investments etc
    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    We also need to reduce all farmer subsidies.

    If people pay the real price for their food then that wouldn’t be an issue. Farmers subsidies are in reality subsidising your shopping simple as that. It’s laughable to hear people complain about subsidies while buying their 49 cent carrots or steak for 3 euro.


  • Options
    #43
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    Nayeli Thousands Fax wrote: »
    You couldn’t be more wrong on both counts. Lower earners need to contribute and your or the governments paws shiuld not get near other people’s savings, gifts/inheritances and should get a very small amount from investments etc

    People shouldn’t inherit anything. Work for your own wealth in an one generation.
    If people pay the real price for their food then that wouldn’t be an issue. Farmers subsidies are in reality subsidising your shopping simple as that. It’s laughable to hear people complain about subsidies while buying their 49 cent carrots or steak for 3 euro.

    The real price for food is the market price. If the Irish farmers can’t compete let’s them rot. If they can’t manage steak at the price people want, import it.


  • Options
    #44
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,645 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Townton wrote: »
    Dont need an increase if you trim down the size of government. Plenty of things to cut.

    You would need to go after the big three, Welfare, Health and Education. Everything else is relative chickenfeed. Have you some expertise in the provision of any of these? Would you be prepared to see your family members take a hit?

    https://whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie/en/


  • Options
    #45
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,388 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    When they hand out “Christmas bonuses” to the bone idle then it should come as no surprise that all these penal taxes shall have to stay- they need every cent they can get to keep up the welfare increases in addition to increased public spending on services (mainly staff).


  • Options
    #46
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Townton wrote: »
    Yes they should go. Main problem we have is we pay incredibly high taxes yet get crap services.

    Taxes are below the EU average in Ireland.

    They are not incredibly high.

    Yes, the health waiting lists and waiting times are poor for the level of expenditure, yes.

    But our overall taxes are not very high.


  • Options
    #47
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    Geuze wrote: »
    Taxes are below the EU average in Ireland.

    They are not incredibly high.

    Yes, the health waiting lists and waiting times are poor for the level of expenditure, yes.

    But our overall taxes are not very high.

    Personal taxes are high.


  • Options
    #48
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Townton wrote: »
    Yes they should go. Main problem we have is we pay incredibly high taxes yet get crap services.


    Tax as % of GDP = 23.3%, very low tax level

    Now, GDP is not a good measure of Irish incomes, so we use GNI* instead = 181,182m

    Tax as % of GNI* = 38%


  • Options
    #49
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    Personal taxes are high.

    What is meant by "personal" taxes?

    PRSI is very low, at 4%.

    UK = 12%

    Germany = 20%

    Income tax is below average.


  • Options
    #50
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/9409920/2-28112018-AP-EN.pdf/54409e5e-6800-4019-b7c1-580797a67001

    Tax as % of GDP.


  • Options
    #51
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    Personal taxes are high.


    Hundreds of thousands of earners pay 0% income tax here.

    My parents pay less than 10% on 49-50k income.

    I pay maybe 26-30% on an above average salary.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #52
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    seamus wrote: »
    USC was introduced by Fianna Fail as an emergency tax to fill the gaping hole in taxation left by their financial mismanagement.

    Note that USC replaces two previous taxes - the Income levy and the Health levy.

    For many people, the USC is less than what they paid before.


  • Options
    #53
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Nayeli Thousands Fax wrote: »
    Property tax should be abolished, CAT should be abolished (for close relations anyway), DIRT aboilshed, CGT significantly reduced, entry point to higher rate of tax significantly increase, higher rate of tax reduced and high rate of USC for higher earners got rid of.

    But USC should be kept as it’s the only tax some people pay who are below the threashold for income tax and rather than expecting middle and higher earners to fund low earners low earners should be contributing themselves.

    To do this would require huge cuts to public expenditure.

    Given the ageing of the population, pension and health exp goes up by hundreds of millions each year.

    What spending do you propose to cut substantially?


  • Options
    #54
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Nayeli Thousands Fax wrote: »
    Property tax should be abolished, CAT should be abolished (for close relations anyway), DIRT aboilshed, CGT significantly reduced, entry point to higher rate of tax significantly increase, higher rate of tax reduced and high rate of USC for higher earners got rid of.

    At a minimum, that is 1,000m of taxes gone, I'd say much more actually.

    What expenditure would you cut?

    Please note that State Pension exp increases by 200m pa, before any rate increases.


  • Options
    #55
    mvl
    Registered Users Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭mvl


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    You would need to go after the big three, Welfare, Health and Education. Everything else is relative chickenfeed. Have you some expertise in the provision of any of these? Would you be prepared to see your family members take a hit?

    https://whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie/en/

    Just seeing there how between 2009 - 2019 the pensions budget increased from 5.82 billion to 8.04 billion, while the total social protection budget is around 20 billion for both years ... sad to see these numbers tbh.


  • Options
    #56
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,645 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    mvl wrote: »
    Just seeing there how between 2009 - 2019 the pensions budget increased from 5.82 billion to 8.04 billion, while the total social protection budget is around 20 billion for both years ... sad to see these numbers tbh.

    I can't be bothered to look now, but there is another site showing how pensions rocketed from about 1997 to 2007. That was almost completely due to massive annual increases which got FF elected three times in a row.

    The increase over the last 10 years would be more to do with a big increase in pensioner numbers. Pensions were frozen for a few years in the emergency, and the Christmas Bonus stopped for a while as well.


  • Options
    #57
    mvl
    Registered Users Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭mvl


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    The increase over the last 10 years would be more to do with a big increase in pensioner numbers. Pensions were frozen for a few years in the emergency, and the Christmas Bonus stopped for a while as while.

    that is my assumption too: there would be no more pension money in the magic pot for the new retired persons unless something drastically changes ...


  • Options
    #58
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    Geuze wrote: »
    What is meant by "personal" taxes?

    PRSI is very low, at 4%.

    UK = 12%

    Germany = 20%

    Income tax is below average.

    The sum of all personal taxes, income tax, prsi and usc is very high. 50%+ and comes in at a very low income. Both are amongst the worst in the world.

    (I’m sure your German prsi levels include corporate taxes but I need to look into it).


  • Options
    #59
    Shai
    Registered Users Posts: 226 ✭✭Shai


    Geuze wrote: »
    Hundreds of thousands of earners pay 0% income tax here.

    My parents pay less than 10% on 49-50k income.

    I pay maybe 26-30% on an above average salary.

    Sorry, those figures surprise me. Would you mind putting some more context on those? How are earners paying 0% income tax? How are your parents paying 10%?


  • Options
    #60
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    The sum of all personal taxes, income tax, prsi and usc is very high. 50%+ and comes in at a very low income. Both are amongst the worst in the world.

    (I’m sure your German prsi levels include corporate taxes but I need to look into it).

    You are correct that the top marginal tax rate of 50% starts very early, yes, at approx 35k.

    That is the worst aspect of the Irish income tax system.

    However, effective income tax rates are lower than other countries.

    German social insurance includes four insurances, nothing to do with CT:

    pension, health, unemployment, long-term care.

    The employee pays 20-21% approx., subject to ceilings.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #61
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Shai wrote: »
    Sorry, those figures surprise me. Would you mind putting some more context on those? How are earners paying 0% income tax? How are your parents paying 10%?


    If I get a chance a chance I will check Revenue data for you.

    To start with, people aged 65+ pay no tax at all if earning under 36k.

    My parents earn 49k approx and pay 8-10% direct income taxes.

    This is a reflection of the low effective income tax rates in Ireland.


Advertisement