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Former top housing official claims homelessness in Ireland is 'normal'

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    #62
    jmayo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,097 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    conorhal wrote: »
    How about this, stop selling NAMA properties at massive discounts to vulture funds and sell them to citizens? A block of apartments near me were sold at less then 50 grand a unit to a vulture fund, why could these not have been sold at the same discount to people on the housing list?

    Why the fook should someone on the housing list, most likely on benefits, get a cheap gaff and people scraping by renting and paying for their own accommodation not get any help in getting a home ?
    LotharIngum wrote: »
    I grew up in a council house in the 80s. It had 4 bedrooms.
    I and one sibling got jobs, moved out, worked hard and bought our own houses.
    I have three other siblings who worked maybe less than a year of their whole lives between them.

    They all moved out one at a time as they got council houses. They still don't work, at least not on the level anyway.
    My mum was left in the council house and about 10 years ago they gave her a transfer into a lovely new 3 bed house with a huge garden.


    So when we were all together at Christmas in my mums house the conversation was oh a fence post has broken in my garden and the council haven't sent anyone to fix it for two months and the neighbors dog is getting in and sh1tting on my lawn.

    I have a mouse in the attic and I cant get the council to come out.

    Sure one of my kitchen cupboards has the handle falling off it.

    Myself and my older sister were just rolling our eyes at each other in disbelief. Cue a big fight when she was caught rolling her eyes. She just stood up and shouted out that she was sick of hearing this. She said she was paying a mortgage for the last 20 years and still had 10 to go, and had to shell out all the time when things go wrong, while you guys wont even get up off your arses to fix your own stuff.

    You have a free house, you get money for nothing. you don't have to get up in the morning. You get free childcare that you don't even need. You haven't a care in the world. And you cant shut up about the bloody councilnto fixing your fence post, your mouse, and your door handle. Buy a mouse trap, pay someone to fix one single fence post and buy a screw driver and a door handle in woodies.


    At that she stormed out.


    Me who was left sitting there because I hadn't got caught rolling my eyes then had to listen to the rest of the sh1t. How they pay taxes (VAT) and they are entitled to this and that and how they pay €50 rent and they have to cut their own grass. How my sister deosnt know how good SHE has it that she doesn't have to shop in lidl and has a company car and on and on about the things she actually worked for her whole life.


    My dear lord Jesus, it was painful. And you know what. Same sh!t every year. They are just entitled and anyone who tells them that is a begrudger and god knows what else.


    I hate going home at Christmas.


    Simple truth is you don't learn the value of something until you have had to work for it. That cant be taught. You have to work to find out.

    You and your sister are what is right and commendable, your family are what is so so wrong with this state.


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    #63
    DebDynamite
    Registered Users Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭DebDynamite


    NIMAN wrote: »
    When the entire homelessness crisis is invented by saying "we have 10,000 homeless" when we actually don't, it just shows its all a sham.

    We have people sitting in rented accommodation who are in the homeless figures. How can that be right?

    We have people supposedly 'on the streets' and being offered accommodation, but turning it down as it doesn't suit them.

    Its all a joke, and fair play to this guy for calling it out on the Claire Byrne show last night. Its now an industry and vested interests have to keep peddling the myth.


    Is it correct that people who are in receipt of HAP, and are therefore renting (because you can't avail of HAP unless you're on the housing list ), are included in that 10,000 "homeless figure"? If so, that's absolutely ridiculous. I thought the homeless were people in temporary accommodation (hotels, hubs, etc.)


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    #64
    MarkHenderson
    Registered Users Posts: 241 ✭✭MarkHenderson


    Sweet.Science wrote: »
    Social housing made sense in the 80s when anyone with a job could buy a house for 20 grand .

    Now working people cant get on the property ladder while people who dont work get a free 3 bed semi

    People in social housing work.


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    #65
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    LotharIngum wrote: »
    My big sis did and they still aren't talking to her. I kept my mouth shut, but it was painful.

    You should have backed your sister up. No good sitting there nodding then coming on here giving out about them.


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    #66
    DebDynamite
    Registered Users Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭DebDynamite


    jmayo wrote: »
    You and your sister are what is right and commendable, your family are what is so so wrong with this state.

    The fact that the OP's mother (who I presume lives alone?) was transferred to a 3 bedroom house is also ridiculous


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    #67
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,839 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    it is normal! I am assuming we have had homeless since the foundation of the state?

    and the people to blame in some instances are the homeless, but the morons in local and national government have created a f**cked situation for a lot of us! It is their total incompetence and / or wish for higher prices that have us where we are!

    for example, we talk of this desperate need for housing, well then f*ck sending hundreds of millions up in smoke on welfare increases this budget, and the next and the next! Next up, NEVER let another house owned by the state be sold off again, PERIOD! Next, re-work the amount of rent they pay to a nice 25-30% of income, they can start paying the LPT too!

    People ask where they money to build all the housing will come from, well thats certainly a part of it, people killing themselves working, to rent etc next door, no security etc, and john and mary next door with the only concern of what day time tv to watch and what they want in the chipper later with their free money?! DO ONE!


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    #68
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,031 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Mr Skehan also said last night that we need a massive build-to-rent scheme in this country.

    We need to get away from the concept that we must own a house. You should be able to rent for life if you want to.


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    #69
    LotharIngum
    Registered Users Posts: 210 ✭✭LotharIngum


    jmayo wrote: »
    Why the fook should someone on the housing list, most likely on benefits, get a cheap gaff and people scraping by renting and paying for their own accommodation not get any help in getting a home ?



    You and your sister are what is right and commendable, your family are what is so so wrong with this state.

    Well to be fair my sister was right.
    I agree 100% with her. But I am what is wrong with the country.
    I just ducked and shuddered when the tirade came at me, because it was much easier to just sit their and nod and say you are right you have it so hard, than it would have been to receive the abuse and venom for not agreeing with them.

    I took the easy option and I said , "Yes you are right. You poor sods.". While thinking, "Jesus, what entitled tripe".


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    #70
    LotharIngum
    Registered Users Posts: 210 ✭✭LotharIngum


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    You should have backed your sister up. No good sitting there nodding then coming on here giving out about them.

    You wouldn't have done it either.
    And its exactly the same everywhere.

    There is a tsunami of fcukers ready to come down on you via twitter, the media, TDs, charities should you actually speak the truth. Noone is going to go against that. And most of them have the same views too. Its just easier to join in with the bullies for them than to stand up to them and take what will come from the gang.


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    #71
    Keatsian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 52 ✭✭Keatsian


    jmayo wrote: »
    Why the fook should someone on the housing list, most likely on benefits, get a cheap gaff and people scraping by renting and paying for their own accommodation not get any help in getting a home ?


    Thousands of people who are "scraping by renting" are eligible for social housing, but they never get it because the government won't build it. Social housing is not just for those on the dole. I don't know the exact threshold now, but if your tax home pay is under something like 32k you're eligible. Direct your ire at the State that won't meet its own housing commitments.


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    #72
    Keatsian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 52 ✭✭Keatsian


    NIMAN wrote: »
    We need to get away from the concept that we must own a house. You should be able to rent for life if you want to.


    Ok, if we're doing that can we get rid of the rule that lets landlords evict tenants to make way for themselves, a relative, or to sell?


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    #73
    ifElseThen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 348 ✭✭ifElseThen


    These voluntary housing organisations... Do the board members work for free?

    https://www.cluid.ie/ourboard/

    http://circlevha.ie/who-we-are/circle-board/

    We are actively seeking new partners to help us achieve our ambitious growth strategy – delivery of 2,500 new units over the next three years. Clúid’s planned spend over the course of this strategy is €500,000,000.

    Who oversees this spending and tendering etc?


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    #74
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    JohnnyFlash wrote: »
    Not half enough attention and oversight is directed towards the charity sector, especially those operating in the homelessness space. Many of them are little more than fronts for trade unions such as Unite, or as a place to give a former ‘community activist’ a 6 figure salary. You know there’s greasy paws in the till when you have days where there are more homeless charities than rough sleepers. Someone needs to lift that slate up and see what’s crawling underneath.

    Correct, government buy off left wing opposition by giving them cushy positions with handsome salaries and a fawning media to felate them, plus these kind of **** get to smugly pontificate to the middle Ireland tax payer for not digging deep enough for the Mrs cash types


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    #75
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 13,954 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Stolen from another post...
    After reading the above I’d a look at Focus Ireland’s latest Annual Report to see how it spends the money it gets in.

    Income in 2017 was €28.6m.

    Of that, €23m went on Charitable Activities (see below); €3m on fundraising; and €0.3m on interest costs, resulting in a surplus for the year of €2.4m.

    Note 7 to the financial statements contained in Focus Ireland’s 2017 annual report show the breakdown of the €23m spent under the heading of ‘Charitable Activities’.

    Included in this €23m…

    €13.9m went on staff costs
    €4.2m on premises costs
    €2.2m on support costs (Finance, IT, HR etc.)
    €1.0m on advocacy
    €0.9m on administration
    €0.9m on programme activities

    Link to the above is here: https://www.focusireland.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Focus-Ireland-Company-Consolidated-Financial-Statement.pdf

    How many people do focus Ireland house?
    The media should be digging into this but they and the directors of these 'charities' share wine at the same social events so it won't be happening.


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    #76
    Cockford Ollie
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 217 ✭✭Cockford Ollie


    Currently a leftist progaganda piece on Newstalk in response to this topic. Henry interviewing illiterate junkies barely able to string a sentence together aiming to guilt the listeners into believing homelessness fake news.


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    #77
    Wheeliebin30
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    The charity sector like the law sector is a big massive gravy train.

    Like free legal aid lawyers and solicitors creaming it.

    Would make you sick.


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    #78
    jmayo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,097 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    LotharIngum wrote: »
    Well to be fair my sister was right.
    I agree 100% with her. But I am what is wrong with the country.
    I just ducked and shuddered when the tirade came at me, because it was much easier to just sit their and nod and say you are right you have it so hard, than it would have been to receive the abuse and venom for not agreeing with them.

    I took the easy option and I said , "Yes you are right. You poor sods.". While thinking, "Jesus, what entitled tripe".

    Yeah, but when it is family some people just don't want to rock the boat.
    You mightn't have said anything, but you live your life right and aren't a leech.
    Keatsian wrote: »
    Thousands of people who are "scraping by renting" are eligible for social housing, but they never get it because the government won't build it. Social housing is not just for those on the dole. I don't know the exact threshold now, but if your tax home pay is under something like 32k you're eligible. Direct your ire at the State that won't meet its own housing commitments.

    Yes I know the way things have gone in Ireland, copied from UK, is that the private sector was meant to provide social housing as the state no longer really wanted to be involved in directly providing and managing it.

    But at the same time as that was happening a whole entitled benefits welfare dependent careerist class has developed and some shaggers even see them as working class.

    They are now the ones deemed most in need of social housing and fook
    the actual working class who are meant to scrap by.


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    #79
    tretorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    I gave up on charities when the Console Chief Executive ran that charity as his own personal fiefdom.

    The details of what went on were so appalling I just stopped giving to all charities. I never gave to any housing charities at all.

    The Console chief executive as far as I know has never answered questions about what was going on in Console, it appeared to me to be embezzlement but sure what would I know. I know investigations take time but the Console charity came to light several years ago and there hasnt been any evidence of any response by the Gardai or the Judicial system since.

    People complain about Margaret Cash getting away with stealing three hundred euros worth of clothes from Penneys but at least she was charged, when is anyone who was involved in the Console carry on going to be brought before a court.


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    #80
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    He’s right……homelessness has become a business for certain groups. It is in their interest to bang this particular drum in the media as often and as loud as possible because this is their bread and butter. These guys would be out of a job if we eradicated homelessness.

    https://www.pmvtrust.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Approved-and-Signed-PMVT-Audited-Accounts-for-2017-Excluding-income-and-expenditure.pdf

    Total employment costs for 2017 – €14.9million (page 24)
    Total state funding – €14.4million (page 11)

    Think about that for a second. Every penny the Government gives these guys, plus the first half a million raised via collection, plus the €200k used to fund tht collection (also page 13) is spent on staff salaries and pensions. Before a cup of tea or a sleeping bag or a pair of dry socks is handed out, they take the first €15million+.

    If they didn’t exist, and that €15 mill was handed out to an organisation that already receives funding that covers the wages (or vice versa), it would all go towards where it’s needed (barring a small % increase in the number of staff they'd have to employ).

    Scandalous, really.

    Edit: I am in no way disparaging the great work that people do for PMCVT. But when homeless people would be better off to the tune of €15,000,000 then questions have to be asked.


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    #81
    LotharIngum
    Registered Users Posts: 210 ✭✭LotharIngum


    I don't give to any charity now unless they publish the salary and bonus of the bosses and that they are paid less than I am.


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    #82
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,839 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    LotharIngum wrote: »
    I don't give to any charity now unless they publish the salary and bonus of the bosses and that they are paid less than I am.

    why would you give to the homeless charity? you arent done for enough tax by those vermin? they have created the problem, let them sort it!


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    #83
    tretorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    https://www.thejournal.ie/eileen-gleeson-homeless-3699069-Nov2017/

    Can we have Eileen Gleeson as President, Conor Skehan as Taoiseach and Peter Casey as Tanaiste.

    These three citizens have the guts to say things as they are unlike some of our politicans who are afraid to say boo in case it affects their twitter likes.

    Its time now for officials to speak out about the Charity Sector and to explain clearly the amount of taxpayers money going to housing bodies in particular who show very little return for this money.


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    #84
    conorhal
    Registered Users Posts: 6,983 ✭✭✭conorhal


    jmayo wrote: »
    Why the fook should someone on the housing list, most likely on benefits, get a cheap gaff and people scraping by renting and paying for their own accommodation not get any help in getting a home


    So we sell it to a US vulture fund instead? What's the net benefit of that?
    What's the point of an affordable housing list if you're not going to sell affordable housing to the people on it?

    It would be far better to give citizens on the affordable housing list a leg up with a cheap home and all the net benefits we'll accrue from citizens with spending money and families with the stability of a roof over their head then we will ever get from American investment companies gouging money out of our ecomomy and paying feck all, if any, tax.


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    #85
    LotharIngum
    Registered Users Posts: 210 ✭✭LotharIngum


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    why would you give to the homeless charity? you arent done for enough tax by those vermin? they have created the problem, let them sort it!


    Any charity. If the CEO earns more than I do, I don't consider it a charity.

    You have a point. If a charity gets funding from the government then I am already paying for it.
    Never thought of that before.


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    #86
    conorhal
    Registered Users Posts: 6,983 ✭✭✭conorhal


    DontThankMe wrote: »
    There is no homeless crisis in comparison to other EU countries homeless levels in Ireland are similar to those in other countries around Europe.


    So what you're saying is that the problem is small and should be eminently solvable?
    Well why don't the government do that then?

    Surely when a problem is small and easily remedied, that's when you fcukin' fix it! Not when there are kids picking through bins outside McDonald's to feed themselves as I saw pictures of in Greece.
    The attitude of 'pffft, it ain't a big problem' is reasoning that really winds me up, the implication being that nothing will be done until it's a big problem at which point we get told 'pfffft, well, this is the new normal and the problem's too big to fix'.


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    #87
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,839 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    LotharIngum wrote: »
    Any charity. If the CEO earns more than I do, I don't consider it a charity.

    You have a point. If a charity gets funding from the government then I am already paying for it.
    Never thought of that before.

    never mind if a charity gets funding, a roof over the head is a basic human need. The world class welfare and supports that good along with it are not! Id actually see contributing towards it as being part of the problem and exacerbating it. Despite your good intentions.

    We are morons here for tolerating the BS we do! This isnt just about the homeless or the wasters or gaming the system. Hard working people are screwed because of those snakes and morons. This problem cannot be solved without the state building on a large scale!


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    #88
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Wheeliebin30 wrote: »
    https://www.thejournal.ie/conor-skeehan-homelessness-normal-4428104-Jan2019/

    What’s this???

    Someone speaking sense and the truth about homelessness and charities receiving hundreds of millions from tax payers??

    Watch him get crucified by the usual free house brigade.

    They should ban the charities and take more of my taxes damn it.
    I prefer my spongers put up in the Gresham, that'll put manners on them. Paying rent to the council? As if. :rolleyes::rolleyes:


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    #89
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    jmayo wrote: »
    Why the fook should someone on the housing list, most likely on benefits, get a cheap gaff and people scraping by renting and paying for their own accommodation not get any help in getting a home ?

    ...

    Looking for something for nothing or just begrudging those who get aid?
    The principle is sound. It's the anecdotes and few chancers that cause the problems.

    If you're on low income, you should get benefits you are due as decided by the state.
    If you're unable to afford rent, you should get rental aid.

    Now do we want more working poor becoming homeless or as a society should we assist them?
    Should we rent state owned properties to them or should we put them up in hotels or give money to the profits of private landlords?

    Relying on the private market does not work and costs us more.


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    #90
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,281 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Deleted User wrote: »
    He’s right……homelessness has become a business for certain groups. It is in their interest to bang this particular drum in the media as often and as loud as possible because this is their bread and butter. These guys would be out of a job if we eradicated homelessness.

    https://www.pmvtrust.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Approved-and-Signed-PMVT-Audited-Accounts-for-2017-Excluding-income-and-expenditure.pdf

    Total employment costs for 2017 – €14.9million (page 24)
    Total state funding – €14.4million (page 11)

    Think about that for a second. Every penny the Government gives these guys, plus the first half a million raised via collection, plus the €200k used to fund tht collection (also page 13) is spent on staff salaries and pensions. Before a cup of tea or a sleeping bag or a pair of dry socks is handed out, they take the first €15million+.

    If they didn’t exist, and that €15 mill was handed out to an organisation that already receives funding that covers the wages (or vice versa), it would all go towards where it’s needed (barring a small % increase in the number of staff they'd have to employ).

    Scandalous, really.

    Edit: I am in no way disparaging the great work that people do for PMCVT. But when homeless people would be better off to the tune of €15,000,000 then questions have to be asked.

    that's a f***ing joke

    do you have a twitter account with some followers? worth posting that


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    #91
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,031 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Keatsian wrote: »
    Ok, if we're doing that can we get rid of the rule that lets landlords evict tenants to make way for themselves, a relative, or to sell?

    Totally agree, we need security of tenancy.

    I had a friend in Sweden who was renting a place for 20+ years. That should be the way to do it, if you find a place you are happy with and want it for 5, 10, 15 years, you should be able to sign a contract that allows you to stay.

    Of course, tenants have to play ball too. They have to pay regularly and on time. And not leave the landlord in the lurch.

    Laws would have to apply to both sides.


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