Brexit discussion thread VII (Please read OP before posting)

ToBeFrank123 · 27-02-2019 4:39pm

otnomart wrote: »

Add Macron too
"France will block Brexit delay without 'new choice' by UK

French president’s comments come after Spain said it would demand conditions for article 50 extension"

Those EU leaders are idiots if they said that.

This just plays right into the hands of hardline brexiteers who claim the EU never give anything back to the UK. It also means the extension vote may fail in the HoC.

What change are they looking for?

And they say the EU have played all this perfectly!

Macy0161 · 27-02-2019 4:40pm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

The EU have done what they are very good at, making it impossible for anyone to walk away. They really are similar to the mafia in that regard.

No one forced the UK to sign up for GFA, which provoked the No Hard Border on Ireland.
The UK then decided to make it UK wide, they weren't forced.
No Customs Union or Market Alignment that required the back stop are self imposed UK Red Lines.

The UK tied themselves in knots. Actually, it's more the Tory party rather than the UK. For all their faults, the labour party proposals wouldn't have had the same issues.

Sam Russell · 27-02-2019 4:42pm

Sterling is stronger today than it has been since 21st May 2017.

Today :£0.85464 = €1 @ 27/02/19:15:36
21st May :£0.8594=€1 @ 21/05/17 :00:00

So markets are moving along the lines of ruling out no deal. They could be wrong of course - you know - experts and all that.

Leroy42 · 27-02-2019 4:44pm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Those EU leaders are idiots if they said that.

This just plays right into the hands of hardline brexiteers who claim the EU never give anything back to the UK. It also means the extension vote may fail in the HoC.

What change are they looking for?

And they say the EU have played all this perfectly!

So the alternative is simply to accept TM demand for an extension based on nothing at all?

So the UK can demand that the EU reopen an agreement, but the EU asking for an actual plan is simply playing into their hands?

It would appear that the EU can never do right on this one

Akrasia · 27-02-2019 4:48pm

10000maniacs wrote: »

But Merkel and Macron have already said that if the UK agrees to have a second referendum, the EU will give them all the time they need to do this.

Yes. If they vote to have a 2nd referendum and then have an A50 extension long enough to provide for this.

This is not May's timeline. She wants 3 votes.
First, a vote on her deal. When that fails, the next day, a vote on No deal, this will also fail, and then, the third is a vote on an A50 extension.

She was asked repeatedly yesterday how long this extension would be, she said as short as possible, so this would take her to May or June and she also said that it would represent an even harder cliff edge than the current one because she doesn't think the EU would extend it again as the EU parliament elections will be over by July 1st.

Here's Ian Dunt's explanation for what I mean.
https://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2019/02/26/may-s-article-50-extension-is-a-trick-to-take-us-to-the-real

The May proposition was functionally very similar to the Cooper-Boles amendments, except in two respects. Firstly, Cooper-Boles put the power of extension in MPs' hands by statute, passed against the government's wishes. It did not rely on trust of the word of a prime minister who had lied countless times to avoid Commons defeats and whose government had been found in contempt of parliament. Secondly, it left the timing of the extension in the hands of the government, rather than MPs.

May clearly plans to use this timing to her advantage. She knows there is a complication in Article 50 extensions. That complication is the European parliament election in May. If Britain takes part, even in a strictly formal way, it can keep on extending Article 50 after July. But if it does not take part, July 1st becomes an absolute unextendable cliff edge.

lawred2 · 27-02-2019 4:50pm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Those EU leaders are idiots if they said that.

This just plays right into the hands of hardline brexiteers who claim the EU never give anything back to the UK. It also means the extension vote may fail in the HoC.

What change are they looking for?

And they say the EU have played all this perfectly!

The 'change' they are looking for is a reason as to why A50 should be extended?

Another 3 months to two years of pissing around playing party politics all the while holding a gun to their own heads is not really worth facilitating is it?

The EU actually does have a body of other work to get through and the interests of the other committed members to deal with.

blanch152 · 27-02-2019 4:58pm

jm08 wrote: »

To get a translator job with the EU, you need to be able to work in 3 European languages.

The recent recruitment drive was for 72, not 200.

Recent recruitment drive for 72 to add to the number already there, so more than 72 but 200, I don't know.

Whether it is 72 or 200, it is at least 72 less Irish graduates teaching in our secondary schools who desperately need Irish teachers.

mrbrianj · 27-02-2019 5:00pm

So, if TM's 3 votes on 3 days works out as -
Day 1 her deal - voted down
Day 2 No Deal - voted down
Day 3 A50 Extension - voted in

What happens then? she goes to the EU and requests and Extension to A50, but nothing has changed since meaningful vote day minus 1.

The UK's position seems to be to stay around accusing the EU of bullying until the EU gives in and opens the door to the unicorn stable.

lawred2 · 27-02-2019 5:01pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Recent recruitment drive for 72 to add to the number already there, so more than 72 but 200, I don't know.

Whether it is 72 or 200, it is at least 72 less Irish graduates teaching in our secondary schools who desperately need Irish teachers.

you'd prefer to force people's hand to work as teachers?

kunst nugget · 27-02-2019 5:01pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Recent recruitment drive for 72 to add to the number already there, so more than 72 but 200, I don't know.

Whether it is 72 or 200, it is at least 72 less Irish graduates teaching in our secondary schools who desperately need Irish teachers.

Gah, the EU... first they took our straight bananas and now they're taking our Irish teachers! You couldn't make it up.

ToBeFrank123 · 27-02-2019 5:02pm

Leroy42 wrote: »

So the alternative is simply to accept TM demand for an extension based on nothing at all?

So the UK can demand that the EU reopen an agreement, but the EU asking for an actual plan is simply playing into their hands?

It would appear that the EU can never do right on this one

The extension would have given everyone including politicians in the HoC a time to reflect and cool off and think through the consequences of everything including a no deal.

Fat chance of that now. There's a danger the HoC will say F U to the EU now and do something drastic in the next few weeks.

That's why the EU leaders are idiots. A very badly timed intervention from them.

Akrasia · 27-02-2019 5:04pm

mrbrianj wrote: »

So, if TM's 3 votes on 3 days works out as -
Day 1 her deal - voted down
Day 2 No Deal - voted down
Day 3 A50 Extension - voted in

What happens then? she goes to the EU and requests and Extension to A50, but nothing has changed since meaningful vote day minus 1.

The UK's position seems to be to stay around accusing the EU of bullying until the EU gives in and opens the door to the unicorn stable.

If the EU refuse to grant the extension, May will just move back to the old strategy of bullying the HOC into accepting her deal by 29th of March.

It remains to be seen if there will be a parliamentary majority to force a longer extension and a 2nd referendum or a longer extension with a significant change to May's red lines.

A Dub in Glasgo · 27-02-2019 5:06pm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

There's a danger the HoC will say F U to the EU now

They have been doing that for months now

lawred2 · 27-02-2019 5:09pm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

The extension would have given everyone including politicians in the HoC a time to reflect and cool off and think through the consequences of everything including a no deal.

Fat chance of that now. There's a danger the HoC will say F U to the EU now and do something drastic in the next few weeks.

That's why the EU leaders are idiots. A very badly timed intervention from them.

If the HoC hasn't thought through the consequences of everything including a no deal by now then they shouldn't be in the HoC and are failing their constituents.

If they say F U because they haven't got sufficient time to do their homework (when they've had nearly 3 years) then so be it - maybe it's time for them to do exactly that.

There are only one set of idiots (your terminology) in this - and it isn't that collection of technocrats seeking to preserve the integrity of the world's largest free trade bloc.

ToBeFrank123 · 27-02-2019 5:14pm

Well hopefully the intervention won't affect the extension vote and it will be extended for 3 months. All anyone can do now is buy more time so that cool heads prevail.
The whole negotiations have been a case of F U to everyone. EU to the brits, brits to the EU, Ireland to the Brits and so on.

So if you take extension off the table, what are you left with?

A Dub in Glasgo · 27-02-2019 5:16pm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

The whole negotiations have been a case of F U to everyone. EU to the brits, brits to the EU, Ireland to the Brits and so on.

If you truly believe that then an extension is of no use

Professor Moriarty · 27-02-2019 5:19pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

The EU is supposed to be a peace project. A major military power departing and then going into recession isn't a good thing in that context even if it did hold an idiotic plebiscite to patch together one of its parties.

I don't see Britain as the EU's opponent, I see it as the being Tory party. This is the EU's opportunity to divide and conquer the Tory party by not conceding an inch, thus destroying a party that has mostly been nothing but trouble for the EU project.

lawred2 · 27-02-2019 5:26pm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Well hopefully the intervention won't affect the extension vote and it will be extended for 3 months. All anyone can do now is buy more time so that cool heads prevail.
The whole negotiations have been a case of F U to everyone. EU to the brits, brits to the EU, Ireland to the Brits and so on.

So if you take extension off the table, what are you left with?

this just isn't true

Mezcita · 27-02-2019 5:28pm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

The EU have done what they are very good at, making it impossible for anyone to walk away.

God but that phrase grinds my gears.

A legal process is underway where the UK has do absolutely nothing to now leave the EU. As of right now the UK will be out in 30 days. So the suggestion that the EU is making it difficult is ridiculous. Literally Mrs. May has just sit back and in 30 days time the UK bounces out.

The problem is that even at this late stage the UK is looking for the EU to compromise on their own rules to lessen the impact of the UK's path of self destruction. That can't and won't happen.

Frank Bullitt · 27-02-2019 5:29pm

Quite the clever tactic here, keep the Sun under your arm so they will keep spouting your side of things.

Professor Moriarty · 27-02-2019 5:30pm

Gintonious wrote: »

Quite the clever tactic here, keep the Sun under your arm so they will keep spouting your side of things.

One thing is very certain, Jacob does not read The Sun.

J Mysterio · 27-02-2019 5:47pm

otnomart wrote: »

Add Macron too
"France will block Brexit delay without 'new choice' by UK

French president’s comments come after Spain said it would demand conditions for article 50 extension"

Beautiful thing about this is the far right types will have to directly criticise the Spanish or French for this, rather than vaguely blaming the EU in a general way, as they are wont to do.

Professor Moriarty · 27-02-2019 5:47pm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

I'm sure he and his voters would say exactly the same about some of our politicians. We're experts in the field at electing them.

That could be said of any democracy. It doesn't change the fact that Jacob is a deceitful elitist.

Professor Moriarty · 27-02-2019 5:48pm

J Mysterio wrote: »

Beautiful thing about this is the far right types will have to directly criticise the Spanish or French for this, rather than vaguely blaming the EU in a general way, as they are wont to do.

Might take the heat off Ireland for a while.

blanch152 · 27-02-2019 5:49pm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Well hopefully the intervention won't affect the extension vote and it will be extended for 3 months. All anyone can do now is buy more time so that cool heads prevail.
The whole negotiations have been a case of F U to everyone. EU to the brits, brits to the EU, Ireland to the Brits and so on.

So if you take extension off the table, what are you left with?

Well, if you rule out May's deal, rule out no-deal and rule out an extension, the only option left is Article 50 withdrawal. That is the option that the HoC will be left with as each of the votes fail.

Imreoir2 · 27-02-2019 5:51pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Recent recruitment drive for 72 to add to the number already there, so more than 72 but 200, I don't know.

Whether it is 72 or 200, it is at least 72 less Irish graduates teaching in our secondary schools who desperately need Irish teachers.

If those graduates wished to go into teaching, they would have done so, not everyone wants to be a teacher. It is good that opportunities are not limited to only teaching careers for those students who do put in the work to achieve a high level of fluency.

J Mysterio · 27-02-2019 5:53pm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Those EU leaders are idiots if they said that.

This just plays right into the hands of hardline brexiteers who claim the EU never give anything back to the UK. It also means the extension vote may fail in the HoC.

What change are they looking for?

And they say the EU have played all this perfectly!

No, they are not idiots. They are sick of 2 years+ of bullshìt from the UK and they are outlining that they will not extend the withdrawal period for another few months of bullshìt without a good reason. The only ones who look idiotic at the moment is the UK PM, her cabinet and Parliament.

J Mysterio · 27-02-2019 5:56pm

Gintonious wrote: »

Quite the clever tactic here, keep the Sun under your arm so they will keep spouting your side of things.

Spectator too.

mrbrianj · 27-02-2019 6:00pm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

I'm sure he and his voters would say exactly the same about some of our politicians. We're experts in the field at electing them.

We are not doing as badly in that regard as the UK at the moment.

We have rival politicians supporting the government, the outcome of which may harm them in the next election, just because of how critical a time it is. Ye have politicians putting their party first regardless of how critical a time it is.

An Ciarraioch · 27-02-2019 6:08pm

Major drop in the number of UK students studying European languages in schools, which suggests universities there have dropped them as a course requirement:

https://www.bbc.com/news/education-47334374

Brexit discussion thread VII (Please read OP before posting)

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