Ireland Team Talk X: The Long Hard Road to a Semi. MOD WARNING POSTS #1, #1474, #5707

Buer · 05-03-2019 3:06pm

Quint2010 wrote: »

Referees have also clamped down on the holding the ball up turnover and there's very little competing at rucks anymore. .

Completely news to me.

Quint2010 · 05-03-2019 3:14pm

Buer wrote: »

Completely news to me.

Have you noticed the amount of times referees are putting their arms out to indicate to the defending team to let go of the attacker to stop them holding him up?

Mr Tickle · 05-03-2019 3:25pm

Quint2010 wrote: »

Have you noticed the amount of times referees are putting their arms out to indicate to the defending team to let go of the attacker to stop them holding him up?

I have noticed this season that there seems to be an increase in the time taken before the ref calls "Maul". I'm ok with this though. The choke tackle slows the game a lot. Rather than change a rule they seem to have just given the attacker an extra couple of seconds to get a knee on the ground.

Zzippy · 05-03-2019 3:28pm

Quint2010 wrote: »

Have you noticed the amount of times referees are putting their arms out to indicate to the defending team to let go of the attacker to stop them holding him up?

Usually it's because the ball carrier has got a knee to ground and therefore it's a tackle.

AdamD · 05-03-2019 3:30pm

Zzippy wrote: »

Usually it's because the ball carrier has got a knee to ground and therefore it's a tackle.

Yeah I think this is more of an improvement of player awareness of the need to get their knee to the ground than a change in refereeing.

Buer · 05-03-2019 3:39pm

Quint2010 wrote: »

Have you noticed the amount of times referees are putting their arms out to indicate to the defending team to let go of the attacker to stop them holding him up?

Because he has managed to get a leg to ground and therefore it's a tackle. This is the carrier being smarter and I would imagine coaching has moved forward to work with players getting a knee down and negate the choke tackle.

But I still see choke tackles successfully implemented in plenty of matches.

jmn51927 · 05-03-2019 3:39pm

Team for Ireland in correspondence with latest team update and Belfast squad
Healy Best Furlong Ryan Henderson POM SOB Cj Murray Sexton Stockdale Farrell Ringrose Earls Kearney
Scannell Kilcoyne Ryan/Porter(tough to tell) JvDF Marmion Carbery Larmour

Eod100 · 05-03-2019 3:49pm

Bit of an obtuse question, but great answer:

https://twitter.com/IrishRugby/status/1102940602600251397

Rigor Mortis · 05-03-2019 3:56pm

jmn51927 wrote: »

Team for Ireland in correspondence with latest team update and Belfast squad
Healy Best Furlong Ryan Henderson POM SOB Cj Murray Sexton Stockdale Farrell Ringrose Earls Kearney
Scannell Kilcoyne Ryan/Porter(tough to tell) JvDF Marmion Carbery Larmour

I thought Carbery was out.

Buer · 05-03-2019 4:07pm

Eod100 wrote: »

Bit of an obtuse question, but great answer:

Can't help but think that whoever asked that was looking to create a bit of needle.

Former Former · 05-03-2019 4:22pm

Buer wrote: »

Can't help but think that whoever asked that was looking to create a bit of needle.

Isn't it a bit more interesting than the usual press conference banality?

Buer · 05-03-2019 4:41pm

Former Former wrote: »

Isn't it a bit more interesting than the usual press conference banality?

Possibly but that's purely down to the measured tone of Kearney's response in the face of it. I don't think it was any way more insightful or revealing than the usual mundane questions.

I suppose it has prompted comment which is more than most questions though, in fairness.

ionadnapokot · 05-03-2019 5:03pm

Clegg wrote: »

Do we have a match thread for France yet? I was hoping they'd adopt their usual bat**** selection policy and drop Dupont for Parra. But alas, it wasn't to be. Here's the side

1. Poirot
2. Guirado
3. Bamba
4. Lambey
5. Vaahaamahina
6. Lauret
7. Iturria
8. Picamoles
9. Dupont
10. Ntamack
11. Higher
12. Fickou
13. Bastereud
14. Penaud
15. Ramos

As always lineout key for Ireland.
Up against 4 genuine lineout options - Lambey, VaHaHa, Lauret, Iturria.
Expecting Irish pack will be same as last year. Ryan, Henderson, PO’M, VdF, CJ etc.
Im making another case for Beirne! I’d start him in the backrow instead of VdF.

Fra v Scot
Lineout: 11/11 & I think they stole 2
Scrum: 5/5 & Won a pen on Scot scrum

aloooof · 05-03-2019 5:10pm

ionadnapokot wrote: »

As always lineout key for Ireland.
Up against 4 genuine lineout options - Lambey, VaHaHa, Lauret, Iturria.
Expecting Irish pack will be same as last year. Ryan, Henderson, PO’M, VdF, CJ etc.
Im making another case for Beirne! I’d start him in the backrow instead of VdF.

Fra v Scot
Lineout: 11/11 & I think they stole 2
Scrum: 5/5 & Won a pen on Scot scrum

Whatever about 6, Beirne definitely isn't a 7 imo.

Dubinusa · 05-03-2019 5:12pm

Who knows how good France are? They beat a poor Scotland, got smashed by England and somehow managed to beat themselves against Wales!
They do have exciting young talent. When they are in full flow, they're brilliant.
On the other hand, there's the 2nd half v Wales.
I think this is a banana skin for us.
Especially with Murray's woes.
If he's as pedestrian as he has been recently, we will struggle.
His extremely slow play is affecting Sexton too, imo.
I hope Marmion gets the nod. Waiting for Murray to fix himself is ludicrous.
Any kind of a win would be fine by me. But I hope we put in a performance.
As poor as we've been, going to Cardiff with 3 wins on the trot would be ideal.
This 6nations has been an eye opener for us. We clearly are a little off the boil and opposing sides seem to have figured out our strengths.
Our play so far, is a mixed bag. We've been lethargic and absent of ideas.
1 great performance this week could be what is needed to reverse the lethargy.
France will come out hard and fast, we have to be up for the physical battles and put it to them.
I think constant pressure on the half backs could see us through.

Eod100 · 05-03-2019 5:14pm

Is there a specific reason why France name their team so early? Doubt it will change Ireland's team selection or tactics but knowing your opponent's team 5 days out from the match seems handy!

ionadnapokot · 05-03-2019 5:37pm

aloooof wrote: »

Whatever about 6, Beirne definitely isn't a 7 imo.

Yes not on the traditional sense. Put POM at open side for scrums.
I think VdF primary asset is the amount of ground he covers in defense and tackle count.

Against France a “rangy” player could be sacrificed for someone who offers a bit more physicality, turnover threat and line out option.

This is a game tailored for Beirne. Ireland are in need of some of the big moments he can provide with turnovers and lineout steals/options.

troyzer · 05-03-2019 5:50pm

ionadnapokot wrote: »

aloooof wrote: »

Whatever about 6, Beirne definitely isn't a 7 imo.

Yes not on the traditional sense. Put POM at open side for scrums.
I think VdF primary asset is the amount of ground he covers in defense and tackle count.

Against France a “rangy” player could be sacrificed for someone who offers a bit more physicality, turnover threat and line out option.

This is a game tailored for Beirne. Ireland are in need of some of the big moments he can provide with turnovers and lineout steals/options.

There's a reason why locks don't make good opensides. They're almost never fast enough. Similarly, opensides don't make good locks because they're not big enough.

In the Venn diagram which is the forward pack, there is a small intersection between athletic locks and massive blindsides that can occasionally be occupied by good players.

Eod100 · 05-03-2019 6:35pm

Seems confirmed that Cronin will miss out then. Herring to be called up apparently. https://www.the42.ie/sean-cronin-ireland-six-nations-france-4525088-Mar2019/?section=comment#comments

Quint2010 · 05-03-2019 6:44pm

Mr Tickle wrote: »

I have noticed this season that there seems to be an increase in the time taken before the ref calls "Maul". I'm ok with this though. The choke tackle slows the game a lot. Rather than change a rule they seem to have just given the attacker an extra couple of seconds to get a knee on the ground.

Zzippy wrote: »

Usually it's because the ball carrier has got a knee to ground and therefore it's a tackle.

AdamD wrote: »

Yeah I think this is more of an improvement of player awareness of the need to get their knee to the ground than a change in refereeing.

Buer wrote: »

Because he has managed to get a leg to ground and therefore it's a tackle. This is the carrier being smarter and I would imagine coaching has moved forward to work with players getting a knee down and negate the choke tackle.

But I still see choke tackles successfully implemented in plenty of matches.

Thanks for the replies. Still confused though. A leg to the ground? A knee to the ground? If it's a leg then it's your foot right? If it's a knee then does it have to stay there? I've never seen a player held up trying to get his knee on the ground? Help!

irishbucsfan · 05-03-2019 7:03pm

Quint2010 wrote: »

Thanks for the replies. Still confused though. A leg to the ground? A knee to the ground? If it's a leg then it's your foot right? If it's a knee then does it have to stay there? I've never seen a player held up trying to get his knee on the ground? Help!

A knee or higher. At which point the tackled player is down and the tackler has to release. It does not have to stay down. Have a look again and you’ll see it in future.

ionadnapokot · 05-03-2019 7:12pm

Eod100 wrote: »

Seems confirmed that Cronin will miss out then. Herring to be called up apparently. https://www.the42.ie/sean-cronin-ireland-six-nations-france-4525088-Mar2019/?section=comment#comments

Another fall from grace for Cronin.

My gues at throwing accuracies
1.Herring
2.Scannell
3.Best
4.Cronin
And scummaging
1.Best
2.Herring
3.Scannell
4.Cronin

sydthebeat · 06-03-2019 7:18am

Ireland by 20

Mike Oxlong · 06-03-2019 9:05am

It's like playing with your sister . Poor ROG

https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/six-nations/des-berry-ireland-players-need-to-step-up-and-protect-johnny-sexton-if-refs-wont-37884384.html?fbclid=IwAR1ZYFUWuvvfkM7eTOL_0osi8nb2Z4Hwb_lHCO--Cxwh3XCxc_fI3sHJ6Co

Buer · 06-03-2019 9:45am

Whilst I can completely understand Cronin being singled out for criticism for his Italian showing, I have to say I think dropping him from the wider squad is completely over the top. He is having the season of his life overall and has gone from starting a 6N game to being out of the wider squad? I'd never have him starting for Ireland and would readily go with Best and Scannell (and possibly Herring) ahead of him but he still provides more impact from the bench than most players in this country and is ideal in scenarios when the pace needs to be lifted in the closing quarter.

This is more than a little reminiscent of Stringer in 2007, to me. It strikes me as very knee jerk with a touch of scapegoating.

ionadnapokot · 06-03-2019 10:09am

Buer wrote: »

Whilst I can completely understand Cronin being singled out for criticism for his Italian showing, I have to say I think dropping him from the wider squad is completely over the top. He is having the season of his life overall and has gone from starting a 6N game to being out of the wider squad? I'd never have him starting for Ireland and would readily go with Best and Scannell (and possibly Herring) ahead of him but he still provides more impact from the bench than most players in this country and is ideal in scenarios when the pace needs to be lifted in the closing quarter.

This is more than a little reminiscent of Stringer in 2007, to me. It strikes me as very knee jerk with a touch of scapegoating.

He’s lost his spot primarily because of strength of opposition lineout this week and taking into account the amount of mistakes this team is making at the moment.
In this context and on the back of his performance last week I think it’s reasonable that Cronin Gets “hooked” for the steadier set piece options.

& this in Sunday RagIndo. Re: Aus tour
“.Then he fell foul of management at tour's end in a breach of discipline that saw the hooker reprimanded subsequently by his employers.”

That’s mad. What the hell did he do? I’ve never heard of an Irish player been disciplined.

awec · 06-03-2019 10:11am

ionadnapokot wrote: »

He’s lost his spot primarily because of strength of opposition lineout this week and taking into account the amount of mistakes this team is making at the moment, in this context and on the back of his performance last week I think it’s reasonable that Cronin Gets “hooked” for the steadier set piece options.

& this in Sunday RagIndo
“.Then he fell foul of management at tour's end in a breach of discipline that saw the hooker reprimanded subsequently by his employers.”

That’s mad. What the hell did he do? I’ve never heard of an Irish player been disciplined.

There was a lot of talk about that incident at the time.

Him and another player had a bit of an altercation on the way home from Australia.

ionadnapokot · 06-03-2019 10:15am

awec wrote: »

There was a lot of talk about that incident at the time.

Him and another player had a bit of an altercation on the way home from Australia.

Oh.i never heard a thing until Sun.
It Must have been over a missed flight!

Zzippy · 06-03-2019 10:30am

Enough with the unsubstantiated rumours please. If it hasn't been published in the papers Boards will not be taking the risk of publishing it. And a reminder that players' private lives are off limits in this forum.

Former Former · 06-03-2019 10:52am

The surprise is not that Cronin is dropped but that he's still in the frame at all.

He's a better hooker than Scannell and much better than Herring. I'm very comfortable saying that and I'm ready for the Munster and Ulster backlash.

However, to paraphrase Rob Kearney, coaches are human too. Joe just doesn't like/trust/rate Cronin for whatever reason, he never has. If Strauss' body hadn't fallen to pieces Cronin would have a fraction of the caps he has.

Joe can see just as well as we can that the whole lineout was a mess against Italy. He saw the lack of improvement when Scannell came on. No objective review would say Cronin was the only problem, but dropping him and calling up Herring is a very clear statement of exactly that.

Such is pro sport I guess.

Ireland Team Talk X: The Long Hard Road to a Semi. MOD WARNING POSTS #1, #1474, #5707

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