Brexit discussion thread VII (Please read OP before posting)

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

The Political Declaration is just waffle. The WA is the WA, if you ratify it, the Future Relationship is completely negotiable.


But no further negotiations until you ratify the WA or crash out, and none needed if you revoke A50.

It's not waffle at all. As you point out, all the big issues that divide Britain over their future relationship with the EU are addressed in the Political Declaration, not the Withdrawal Agreement. Backstop aside, if you think May's Brexit is either too hard or not hard enough, you almost certainly think that because of what's in the PD (or because of what's omitted from it) not what's in the WA.

And while the Pol Dec isn't binding, it is taken very seriously by the EU, and very much conditions the line the EU will take in the coming negotiations. The UK side may be completely cavalier in this regard, but the EU side wil not be. So if you don't like what's in the Pol Dec, that matters.

Anyone want to go into business with me exporting cars into the UK via NI?

Does this also breach most favoured nation rules?

Christy42 wrote: »

Does this also breach most favoured nation rules?

Formally, no. All goods imported into NI across the Irish border are tariff-free, so a Chinese exporter, for example, could benefit from this treatment by sending his goods not to Liverpool but to Dublin, and then trucking them north.

Having NI open border is actually good for Ireland isn't it? We can continue to sell our meat products (as an example) into the UK, which the only difference being we have to reroute up through NI rather than Dublin-Holyhead.

And the same goes for every other EU product currently being sold tariff free in the UK. Simply divert through Ireland/NI. Of course it increases transport times and costs but a calculation will be done on each basis I would assume.

blanch152 wrote: »

An honesty box wouldn't work at the border.

There are too many good republicans that would have an interest in avoiding the honesty box.

But the good loyalists will happily hand over their half crowns.

Do you ever read your nonsense?

First Up wrote: »

But they would be subject to the EU's import terms with China.

Indeed which would be quite useful while the UK has no trade deal with them.


Its an insane scenario they are putting forward.

I honestly think this is their arse backwards maneuver to try and pull us out of the EU by trying to force a border between us and the EU so we do their dirty work for them.

VinLieger wrote: »

Indeed which would be quite useful while the UK has no trade deal with them.


Its an insane scenario they are putting forward.

I honestly think this is their arse backwards maneuver to try and pull us out of the EU by trying to force a border between us and the EU so we do their dirty work for them.

Not least because the opposite won't be true; UK goods coming into Ireland will be subject to full checks.

Which over the long-term will only serve to make their export deficit worse and hammer businesses reliant on EU exports.

Are they hoping that the EU will take the same "blind eye" policy on Day 1 until a formal arrangement is set up?

First Up wrote: »

But they would be subject to the EU's import terms with China.

Nope. You can transport goods through the EU to a third country without paying EU tariffs. (You can do this in most countries; long-distance international trade would be severly hampered if you had to pay tariffs in every country through which you passed.)

Those published tariffs represent a pretty strong unilateral trade deal for the rest of the world. Beef and cheese/butter the only categories where we're likely to face significant tariffs, I imagine? Combined with no border checks for goods entering NI, it actually looks quite favorable for Ireland, I'd say.

More of this nonsense from Boris.

"The people asked parliament to do something and it would be a travesty for parliament to not do it"

Really, they weren't swayed by the lies, BS, and false promises?

Edit: And he's following that up by saying May's plan to allow a free vote tonight is a terrible decision as there are somethings which are too important to the country and she should be whipping her party and cabinet to vote in a particular way.

Edit 2: Now they are discussing how he ended up with his new haircut.....

Edit 3: and finally a caller who called him on his nonsense and asked him to explain why he thinks he is fit for high office was given 10 seconds of a bumbling response before Nick Ferrari moved on to the next topic.

Keyzer wrote: »

First time posting here but have been tracking Brexit since the start.

What an utter shambles - the sheer arrogance from the UK politicians is astounding. Corbyn is a disgrace, he's like a petulant child at this stage. I'd love to see him come up with a plan that would work.

I honestly feel sympathy for May - she inherited this bag of crap from Cameron. Another arrogant politician so out of touch with reality that he had the foolishness to start this whole thing.

The vote should have been set from the start, overwhelming majority required to move forward with brexit - minimun 60/40. The way it was set up, it could have been decided on a single vote.

A campaign to leave based on lies and nonsense that the joe/josephine soap on the street, uninformed and more interested in looking at the daily mail on their smart phones, fell for.

And the fact that very few considered Northern Ireland in the campaign just goes to show the arrogance and ignorance of the UK population.

TBF Corbyn has put forward an alternative plan (whether is would work with the EU is a matter for debate). TM has steadfastly, and continues, to believe that she alone is the sole person in charge and only her way can possibly work.

This despite two, and possible more, historic defeats in the HoC.

It is true that she inherited the role, but she knew what she was taking on when she put herself forward. She alone took the decision to trigger A50 (it is funny that people complain that the EU pressured her to trigger it by stating that no negotiations could take place until it happened, but nobody mentions how weak that shows her to be that she caved).

It was TM that allowed Davis, Johnson and then JRM to hijack the entire process and failed to instill any semblance of discipline in the party.

So don't let he croaky voice and tired eyes make you mistake empathy for her as a human and distain for her as a failure at her job. It is possible to have both.

Take the upcoming vote on an extension for example. She needs to expand that single vote to at least 3 or 4. If the HoC votes for an extension they then need to ascertain exactly how long and what for. She can't simply tell the EU she wants an extension with no details of plan. But she won't do that, because to do that invites people to question her position and that is the most important aspect of all of this.

We know, from government reports, just how terrible a no deal will be for the UK. Yet even now, she is unwilling, and is actually playing political games, with the notion of a no deal in the clear knowledge that it will have serious negative consequences for many people in her country.

The UK is ****ed and they waste minutes talking about a hair cut.