Fine Gael TD sues Dublin Hotel after falling off swing

Stop moaning ffs · 16-06-2019 11:02am

Auguste Comte wrote: »

Tory levils of arrogance.

Oliver Callan tweeted the article. Saying ‘Tiny Thatcher wont be happy’

Tiny thatcher. I’m in a knot

_Kaiser_ · 16-06-2019 11:54am

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Fair enough.

You think FF can give you that something else?

I've noticed this a lot with your posts.. rather than actually respond to points and issues raised, you throw in a very obvious attempt to deflect from the incompetence, waste, and corruption that is FG.

Have you anything to actually say, because no-one is buying the spin tactics anymore Mr Bin?

_Kaiser_ · 16-06-2019 11:58am

InTheShadows wrote: »

Said it at the time but the recession was a blessing in disguise for this country. We had the chance at real reform (justice, welfare, housing, education etc..) which is why i gave FG my vote but it became apparent after a short time i had made a mistake and been conned.

What's more depressing is after years of FG failure their numbers are still pretty good despite the disaster they have presided over.

The only reason FG are still polling relatively well is because there's only really 2 choices in this country - them or FF.

None of their target demographics are going to vote SF on the day. They, like the alphabet-soup left, have a useful function in holding the Government to account but that's all.

Then you have the likes of LAB and the Greens - both of whom previously sold out any alternative they may have represented for a taste of real power/money. Anyone who thinks the "Green wave" in the recent election indicates a attitude shift among the electorate is mistaken IMO.. they were simply the "best" of the available options.

One way or another FF will be back in soon enough and FG restored to their rightful (and historical) place on the opposition benches.

Stop moaning ffs · 16-06-2019 12:04pm

I’m still utterly baffled how an absolute nobody came out of nowhere and got elected MEP. Meaning Maria Walsh

It’s a deadly serious position with a massive amount of responsibility.

Her campaign featured bwitched and tamagotchi videos.

Looking at that, we should be reminded were in no position to laugh at the Brits and the likes of Farage etc

Muahahaha · 16-06-2019 12:14pm

InTheShadows wrote: »

Said it at the time but the recession was a blessing in disguise for this country. We had the chance at real reform (justice, welfare, housing, education etc..) which is why i gave FG my vote but it became apparent after a short time i had made a mistake and been conned.

Feel the same way, Enda Kennys 'New Politics' was just a sham. A massive chance to reform the institutions of the State was squandered. People wanted root and branch reform and Fine Gael had a mandate to deliver it but they completely messed it up.

What's more depressing is after years of FG failure their numbers are still pretty good despite the disaster they have presided over.

Both FG and FF have a floor of voters that will always vote for them no matter what. Don't forget that even after FF crashed the economy and brought the IMF in they still got 17% of the vote in the watershed 2011 election. Absolutely incredible that 17% of people didn't mind mass emigration and unemployment and having their pockets dipped with higher taxes to pay for the party that other people had. You'd want to be some idiot voting for FF when they literally sent the country broke but one in six Irish people did just that. Bloody idiots, we can never progress as a country when you have people that dumb voting for a busted flush.

_Kaiser_ · 16-06-2019 12:17pm

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

I’m still utterly baffled how an absolute nobody came out of nowhere and got elected MEP. Meaning Maria Walsh

It’s a deadly serious position with a massive amount of responsibility.

Her campaign featured bwitched and tamagotchi videos.

Looking at that, we should be reminded were in no position to laugh at the Brits and the likes of Farage etc

Sure we've always have our own "characters" like the Healy-Rae's, Lowry, Zappone, Shane Ross. We're no better really.

This is why I'm not convinced that Independents are the solution either. Leaving aside that they're generally one issue candidates or former FG/FF anyway, all they do is serve to further fragment the vote. We don't have the population to support all these minor groups IMO.

The reality here is that we're a one/two-party country anyway but we have an electorate that's generally disengaged beyond a parochial "what's in it for me?" mindset.

That might have been grand when it was just within the confines of our borders we had to think about, but in a globalised world and as part of the EU, TD's should absolutely NOT be bothering with sorting planning applications, fixing potholes and other local agendas (don't forget we have an extensive local government apparatus as well).

It's time for the electorate to grow up a bit and get involved. Pick one of the big 2 and hold them to account. Let them know whether they're doing what you expected more than once every 5 years, start thinking about the bigger picture than just what you can see from your front door, and stop accepting mediocrity and corruption (both from politicians but everywhere - still far too many people interested in what they can "get away with" in this country).

Personally I'm not convinced we were ready to be let at the controls of a nation given the never-ending scandals (that no-one seems to ever be punished for), corruption, waste, incompetence, and the fact that we've near-bankrupted the country on several occasions... but we are where we are and the stakes are a lot higher nowadays if we want to have a country that's anything more than a fringe triviality 5/10 years from now.

Stop moaning ffs · 16-06-2019 12:18pm

Is it not true that it’s the civil service that really runs the show and it needs a complete overhaul root and branch?

salmocab · 16-06-2019 12:33pm

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Is it not true that it’s the civil service that really runs the show and it needs a complete overhaul root and branch?

I imagine yes minister and yes prime minister whilst exaggerated are very close to how both the British and Our own countries are ran.

Stop moaning ffs · 16-06-2019 12:35pm

salmocab wrote: »

I imagine yes minister and yes prime minister whilst exaggerated are very close to how both the British and Our own countries are ran.

Well we swap out government and TDs every few years.

A civil servant job is for life.
You’d wonder are we looking in the wrong place if we really want the change Enda initially promised.

McMurphy · 16-06-2019 12:37pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I've noticed this a lot with your posts.. rather than actually respond to points and issues raised, you throw in a very obvious attempt to deflect from the incompetence, waste, and corruption that is FG.

Have you anything to actually say, because no-one is buying the spin tactics anymore Mr Bin?

When you spend 90% of your internet time bemoaning homeless, unemployed and people playing the system, it probably is a kick square in the gonads, when a glaring example emerges where "one of your own" has been at the scamming craic too.

It will not be an easy task getting down off such a high horse.

Stop moaning ffs · 16-06-2019 12:39pm

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

When you spend 90% of your internet time bemoaning homeless, unemployed and people playing the system, it probably is a kick square in the gonads, when a glaring example emerges where "one of your own" has been at the scamming craic too.

It will not be an easy task getting down off such a high horse.

Well all be here to supervise his climbdown I hope. Yknow. Just in case.

_Kaiser_ · 16-06-2019 12:43pm

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Well all be here to supervise his climbdown I hope. Yknow. Just in case.

I find that the FGers generally just disappear for a bit when the pressure is on, and then come back as if nothing happened.

Y'know, just like Enda used to do!

salmocab · 16-06-2019 12:43pm

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Well we swap out government and TDs every few years.

A civil servant job is for life.
You’d wonder are we looking in the wrong place if we really want the change Enda initially promised.

We aren’t though it’s up to government to drive change not the civil servants. They need to have the courage and fortitude to do the right thing and the MB case is a microcosm of it.
I don’t vote FG but was a happy enough when Leo got the nod he seemed like a new broom with s bit of energy and some back bone but he quickly enough dispelled that for me. It’s more of the same. FF FG no real difference.

Wheeliebin30 · 16-06-2019 12:44pm

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

When you spend 90% of your internet time bemoaning homeless, unemployed and people playing the system, it probably is a kick square in the gonads, when a glaring example emerges where "one of your own" has been at the scamming craic too.

It will not be an easy task getting down off such a high horse.

I think me stating I won’t be voting FG again shows I have principles?

Like I have been consistent with that.

I’m not defending the party on that issue.

But yeah I’m still on my high horse and blindly following the party.

What more can I do if I don’t vote for them again?

Wheeliebin30 · 16-06-2019 12:50pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I find that the FGers generally just disappear for a bit when the pressure is on, and then come back as if nothing happened.

Y'know, just like Enda used to do!

I’m not disappearing, I’m here saying I won’t vote FG again.

Stop moaning ffs · 16-06-2019 12:51pm

salmocab wrote: »

We aren’t though it’s up to government to drive change not the civil servants. They need to have the courage and fortitude to do the right thing and the MB case is a microcosm of it.
I don’t vote FG but was a happy enough when Leo got the nod he seemed like a new broom with s bit of energy and some back bone but he quickly enough dispelled that for me. It’s more of the same. FF FG no real difference.

It’s a genuine shame Coveney didn’t get the job. He has the head for it and a deep understanding of how politics works both here and abroad. You would have never heard of him hiring a spin unit. Ever. He wouldn’t and wouldn’t have to.
He’s no interest in the photo op and glad handing either. Unlike Leo.

You’d wonder do they have him on the bench for later. But unless something disastrous happens you’ll never see Leo step down.

You’d hope his buffoonery dealing with this Bailey issue would lead to it. It might yet. But history of accountability in this country suggests otherwise

Jupiter Mulligan · 16-06-2019 1:14pm

Shemale wrote: »

He posts like he is in the middle of his mensa cycle

Tolerably witty. Do you write Jo Brand's scripts for her?

Augme · 16-06-2019 1:15pm

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Is it not true that it’s the civil service that really runs the show and it needs a complete overhaul root and branch?

It is true, but most people don't realise. Hence the reason things never change.

Loafing Oaf · 16-06-2019 1:20pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

The only reason FG are still polling relatively well is because there's only really 2 choices in this country - them or FF.
One way or another FF will be back in soon enough and FG restored to their rightful (and historical) place on the opposition benches.

Does this not ultimately show that centre- and right-leaning voters are fundamentally happy with what they are getting from FF and FG? Any other parties that have tries to occupy that space over the years have either faded away or never got off the ground in the first place.

Jupiter Mulligan · 16-06-2019 1:21pm

Villa05 wrote: »

What do you mean no more no less. Leo said much the same thing at 650 million including contingencies .

Leo said what his briefing notes told him to say. The fault lies - and there's no argument here - with the professionally qualified buffoons on the project team who costed the tender and evidently made a complete dog's mickey of it.

Villa05 wrote: »

It is the cost of the hospital plus the cost of incompetence of those planning and driving it. More taxpayers money wasted.

The money is wasted only if you regard the building of a much needed and long promised National Childrens' Hospital as wasted expenditure. Do you?

If you regard it as an essential piece of national health infrastructure, then it isn't wasted.

And again I repeat, it costs what it costs. It's not like you can trawl around the murkier depths of Ali Bazar, ebay or Amazon.com and find a slightly used Childrens' Hospital for sale from a Chinese vendor for next to nothing.

Stop moaning ffs · 16-06-2019 1:24pm

Jupiter Mulligan wrote: »

Leo said what his briefing notes told him to say. The fault lies - and there's no argument here - with the professionally qualified buffoons on the project team who costed the tender and evidently made a complete dog's mickey of it.

The money is wasted only if you regard the building of a much needed and long promised National Childrens' Hospital as wasted expenditure. Do you?

If you regard it as an essential piece of national health infrastructure, then it isn't wasted.

And again I repeat, it costs what it costs. It's not like you can trawl around the murkier depths of Ali Bazar, ebay or Amazon.com and find a slightly used Childrens' Hospital for sale from a Chinese vendor for next to nothing.

So Leo and Simon are absolved because the project team got it wrong?

Jupiter Mulligan · 16-06-2019 1:25pm

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

I’m still utterly baffled how an absolute nobody came out of nowhere and got elected MEP. Meaning Maria Walsh

It’s a deadly serious position with a massive amount of responsibility.

Her campaign featured bwitched and tamagotchi videos.

Looking at that, we should be reminded were in no position to laugh at the Brits and the likes of Farage etc

Oddly enough, I find the election of a bankrupt former developer who is a self-confessed tax thief and raider of his employees' pension fund much more remarkable.

A cyncic might conclude that in sending him to Brussels the voters are indicating that they don't want such vermin in our national parliament, but I'm not so sure.

Jupiter Mulligan · 16-06-2019 1:29pm

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

So Leo and Simon are absolved because the project team got it wrong?

Naturally.

Only a complete fool would imagine that a Doctor and a young whippersnapper with a good Leaving Cert would know more about hospital construction costs than the professionally Qualified multi-disciplined Project Team set up to deliver the hospital.

Obviously they believed the information that the former Chairman of the said Board provided to them. What choice had they?

machiavellianme · 16-06-2019 1:31pm

Jupiter Mulligan wrote: »

Leo said what his briefing notes told him to say. The fault lies - and there's no argument here - with the professionally qualified buffoons on the project team who costed the tender and evidently made a complete dog's mickey of it.

The money is wasted only if you regard the building of a much needed and long promised National Childrens' Hospital as wasted expenditure. Do you?

If you regard it as an essential piece of national health infrastructure, then it isn't wasted.

And again I repeat, it costs what it costs. It's not like you can trawl around the murkier depths of Ali Bazar, ebay or Amazon.com and find a slightly used Childrens' Hospital for sale from a Chinese vendor for next to nothing.

No, but you can build it where property isn't at a premium, labour and resources have access and it is in a convenient location for those who inevitably need to use it. Anywhere on the outskirts of the M50 would have been more pragmatic. You could have even built a hotel next door for nurses, doctors and family members and still had 1 billion in change for what this will inevitably cost.

Also, when scoping the thing and tendering for it, either contract at the lowest bid or weight accordingly. Taking the lowest bid and permitting price reviews to double the highest bid isn't clever.

Stop moaning ffs · 16-06-2019 1:39pm

Jupiter Mulligan wrote: »

Naturally.

Only a complete fool would imagine that a Doctor and a young whippersnapper with a good Leaving Cert would know more about hospital construction costs than the professionally Qualified multi-disciplined Project Team set up to deliver the hospital.

Obviously they believed the information that the former Chairman of the said Board provided to them. What choice had they?

the question remains who gave them the €850 million quote to begin with and when they saw it spiralling why they didn’t jam on the brakes.

It can be done cheaper. In a better location that would better serve everyone I need the country.

Yet they ignored all that and barreled on.

It is incompetence and a sure sign they’re in it for developers and business. Nothing to do with national interest.
Nobody will argue the hospital isn’t needed. It is.
But do it right. Just once can we do something right where they’re not lining the pockets of others

Eg. It doesn’t have a helicopter pad. So a child in an emergency will have to be airlifted to Dublin airport and driven down into town. When they could have a much shorter quicker drive to *that* site on the m50.

Why it hasn’t been cancelled and started over is going to be a thing

Kivaro · 16-06-2019 1:39pm

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

It’s a genuine shame Coveney didn’t get the job. He has the head for it and a deep understanding of how politics works both here and abroad. You would have never heard of him hiring a spin unit. Ever. He wouldn’t and wouldn’t have to.
He’s no interest in the photo op and glad handing either. Unlike Leo.

Unfortunately Coveney is an advocate for Peter Sutherland's policy of undermining the homogeneity of European States with mass migration from outside the EU. Coveney has in the past talked about doubling the population of every city outside Dublin, having at least another million people in the country by 2040, and making every village and town in Ireland 'diverse'.

Our services and infrastructure are bursting at the seams at the moment with the population that we already have. Imagine the impact on hospital waiting lists, GP waiting rooms, childcare, traffic on the roads, drain on social welfare, housing requirements if Coveney gets his way.

There is a cliche of Liberal Left elitists at the top level of Fine Gael at the moment. They need to be removed and replaced with people who have realistic views on the future of the country; views that are not based on failed programs in other European countries.

McMurphy · 16-06-2019 1:41pm

machiavellianme wrote: »

No, but you can build it where property isn't at a premium, labour and resources have access and it is in a convenient location for those who inevitably need to use it. Anywhere on the outskirts of the M50 would have been more pragmatic. You could have even built a hotel next door for nurses, doctors and family members and still had 1 billion in change for what this will inevitably cost.

Also, when scoping the thing and tendering for it, either contract at the lowest bid or weight accordingly. Taking the lowest bid and permitting price reviews to double the highest bid isn't clever.

The curragh would have been ideal. Land already owned by the state, twenty minutes away from Newlands cross, there's even a new road leading up to it and everything.

Jupiter Mulligan · 16-06-2019 1:46pm

machiavellianme wrote: »

No, but you can build it where property isn't at a premium, labour and resources have access and it is in a convenient location for those who inevitably need to use it. Anywhere on the outskirts of the M50 would have been more pragmatic. You could have even built a hotel next door for nurses, doctors and family members and still had 1 billion in change for what this will inevitably cost.

Also, when scoping the thing and tendering for it, either contract at the lowest bid or weight accordingly. Taking the lowest bid and permitting price reviews to double the highest bid isn't clever.

No arguments with any of the above, other than the tired old "best location" gripe. Over the past 20 years, Irish taxpayers have funded at least three Consultants' reports (and possibly more) into where the NCH should ideally be located.

Both the FF/PD and the FG/Labour Consultants Reports opted for the Mater option, but the planners blocked that. The subsequent consultants' report opted for James's. Meanwhile the conditions at Crumlin and Temple Streeet continued to deteriorate. So stop quibbling about the location, that battle is long over.

Jupiter Mulligan · 16-06-2019 1:53pm

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Just once can we do something right where they’re not lining the pockets of others

In other words, you don't want to see the construction company making a profit?

By any chance are you an escapee from the thread where a bunch of economically challenged nitwits are whining about insurance companies making a profit?

Yurt2 · 16-06-2019 1:56pm

Jupiter Mulligan wrote: »

Oddly enough, I find the election of a bankrupt former developer who is a self-confessed tax thief and raider of his employees' pension fund much more remarkable.

A cyncic might conclude that in sending him to Brussels the voters are indicating that they don't want such vermin in our national parliament, but I'm not so sure.

Irish voters have a well-known predilection give 'the cute hoor' a nod on election day. I don't quite understand nor do I endorse it, but I think Wallace fits neatly into that box.

Maria Walsh is another thing entirely, completely empty, policy free zone. "New face! Fresh voice! Up and coming generation! Children are the future! Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles!"

She really irritated me. It's like we've completely dispensed with the concept of merit in our society and political system.

Fine Gael TD sues Dublin Hotel after falling off swing

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