General Rugby Discussion II

PMC83 · 30-09-2019 10:38am

bilston wrote: »

I know talk of rugby expansion is discussed often particularly around world cups, but what can be done to grow the game and develop more competitive teams, especially now that the Global League has been rejected.

With Japan up to 8th in the world and looking very good at the weekend, surely the time is now to strike and get them into the Rugby Championship. Don't muck around for 10 years like what happened with Italy, get them in as soon as is feasible.

What can be done in Europe. It's only natural that Unions will look after their own interests so it's pointless criticising the likes of the IRFU to embrace change that might ultimately cost Irish rugby, they are, after all a business, but what can be done to get Georgia, Romania, Spain and Russia up to the next level.

I think Georgia should be gaurenteed at least 3 games a year against 6Ns sides and one of those should be in Tblissi (say in November), and maybe a Georgian domestic side should be guaranteed entry into the Challenge Cup to help expose more Georgian players to a higher level of rugby.

I can't see them joining the 6Ns anytime soon, with the CVc takeover underway there is more chance of the USA joining than Georgia, or any other European side.

That said is there anything to say that the 6Ns should be a European tournament?

I reckon Georgian Rugby should enter a team into the PRO14. Have it primarily composed from national team players, but with a few extra star signings, similar to what Argentina have done with the Jaguares in Super Rugby.

At the least then the Georgians would be playing a lot more competitive games together, they will only come so far thumping the other teams in rugby Europe every year.

The Lost Sheep · 30-09-2019 11:25am

bilston wrote: »

I know talk of rugby expansion is discussed often particularly around world cups, but what can be done to grow the game and develop more competitive teams, especially now that the Global League has been rejected.

With Japan up to 8th in the world and looking very good at the weekend, surely the time is now to strike and get them into the Rugby Championship. Don't muck around for 10 years like what happened with Italy, get them in as soon as is feasible.

What can be done in Europe. It's only natural that Unions will look after their own interests so it's pointless criticising the likes of the IRFU to embrace change that might ultimately cost Irish rugby, they are, after all a business, but what can be done to get Georgia, Romania, Spain and Russia up to the next level.

I think Georgia should be gaurenteed at least 3 games a year against 6Ns sides and one of those should be in Tblissi (say in November), and maybe a Georgian domestic side should be guaranteed entry into the Challenge Cup to help expose more Georgian players to a higher level of rugby.

I can't see them joining the 6Ns anytime soon, with the CVc takeover underway there is more chance of the USA joining than Georgia, or any other European side.

That said is there anything to say that the 6Ns should be a European tournament?

Problem with 6 Nations is its key to the income of competing unions so wont want to lose out on income so keep it closed shop.
Georgia have had sides competing in the challenge cup qualifiers Just not been able to qualify ahead of Russian sides

I agree about Japan and something then should be done with Fiji, Tonga, Samoa as well but Aus, NZ wont add them to rugby championship...

PMC83 wrote: »

I reckon Georgian Rugby should enter a team into the PRO14. Have it primarily composed from national team players, but with a few extra star signings, similar to what Argentina have done with the Jaguares in Super Rugby.

At the least then the Georgians would be playing a lot more competitive games together, they will only come so far thumping the other teams in rugby Europe every year.

Can pro14 expand any more though?
14 is already a lot. 15/16 means you have to lose some games so what format would you pick?

PMC83 · 30-09-2019 11:38am

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Can pro14 expand any more though?
14 is already a lot. 15/16 means you have to lose some games so what format would you pick?

Honestly I'm not too sure about that, but I would wonder how long the SA experiment will last....
Cheetas may come good, but Southern Kings I would fear for, they've been in and out of Super Rugby, now the PRO14. Fan base isn't massive, and only around since 2009. I'd wonder how much longer they will last..

Podge_irl · 30-09-2019 4:35pm

Adding Japan to the RC would, to be fair, turn incredibly large travel distances into humongous travel distances. They are not particularly close to Aus/NZ and are obviously phenomenally far away from SA and Arg.

It is a tough one - ideally the Pacific Nations Cup would have better teams in it.

Squidgy Black · 01-10-2019 6:43pm

Ardie Savea will be wearing protective goggles against Canada, apparently his sight in his left eye is starting to deteriorate, spotted it around a year ago.

Obviously a horrible thing for any player to have to go through, but like McKinley before him hopefully should be a role model for kids with vision problems to not be turned off the game due to having to wear the goggles.

jacothelad · 01-10-2019 8:09pm

PMC83 wrote: »

I reckon Georgian Rugby should enter a team into the PRO14. Have it primarily composed from national team players, but with a few extra star signings, similar to what Argentina have done with the Jaguares in Super Rugby.

At the least then the Georgians would be playing a lot more competitive games together, they will only come so far thumping the other teams in rugby Europe every year.

A Georgian entrant would have to be financially attractive to the league and they would need a huge income to compete. It would be expensive and it's quite a trek for a rugby squad to go there and their side would be at huge disadvantages in every away game.

01-10-2019 9:28pm

The South Africans were only brought in because of the TV revenue. I would love to see a Georgian side but the money won't stack up

Exclamation Marc · 01-10-2019 9:35pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The South Africans were only brought in because of the TV revenue. I would love to see a Georgian side but the money won't stack up

The South African teams also have long term aspirations of joining the Heineken Cup. Whatever about the logistics and the reality of a non-European team joining a European competition, their continued awfulness will not get them even into a discussion.

PMC83 · 02-10-2019 8:40am

jacothelad wrote: »

A Georgian entrant would have to be financially attractive to the league and they would need a huge income to compete. It would be expensive and it's quite a trek for a rugby squad to go there and their side would be at huge disadvantages in every away game.

Agreed, but if Georgia could afford it I think it would be good for them and the league. Theres been quiet talk of an american franchise but money aside it would just be adding another whipping boy to the PRO14.

Rugby has a definite ceiling in terms of popularity. A lot of people (like CVC) look at football and its money making ability and think 'why not rugby'. At the end of the day its a pretty niche sport, with 4/5 fully professional leagues spattered around the world.

The Lost Sheep · 02-10-2019 10:12am

PMC83 wrote: »

Agreed, but if Georgia could afford it I think it would be good for them and the league. Theres been quiet talk of an american franchise but money aside it would just be adding another whipping boy to the PRO14.

Rugby has a definite ceiling in terms of popularity. A lot of people (like CVC) look at football and its money making ability and think 'why not rugby'. At the end of the day its a pretty niche sport, with 4/5 fully professional leagues spattered around the world.

And a Georgian side wouldnt be a whipping boy?
It takes time to build pro leagues that can be sustainable.

PMC83 · 02-10-2019 10:31am

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

And a Georgian side wouldnt be a whipping boy?
It takes time to build pro leagues that can be sustainable.

Give a Georgian side a year playing together so they can build some cohesion, add one or two marquee signings and they could potentially do ok, at least be a mid table team.

Southern kings, Dragons, Ospreys, Zebre..not exactly teams lighting up the league..

The Lost Sheep · 02-10-2019 10:35am

PMC83 wrote: »

Give a Georgian side a year playing together so they can build some cohesion, add one or two marquee signings and they could potentially do ok, at least be a mid table team.

Southern kings, Dragons, Ospreys, Zebre..not exactly teams lighting up the league..

That is extremely optimistic and there isnt really anything to suggest they would be better than these sides and Ospreys are a strange one to include in that list. Yes they were 4th/5th in their pool the last 2 years and had to go to playoff for champions cup rugby but have been 3rd/4th/5th the other years.

02-10-2019 10:46am

Any addition, will realistically, take 10 years to see an overall improvement for the country. It's about capturing the next generation of sporting youth into professional coaching setups.

PMC83 · 02-10-2019 10:57am

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

That is extremely optimistic and there isn't really anything to suggest they would be better than these sides and Ospreys are a strange one to include in that list. Yes they were 4th/5th in their pool the last 2 years and had to go to playoff for champions cup rugby but have been 3rd/4th/5th the other years.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one so!

What do you think in terms of pushing Georgia forward would be best option?

Jump_In_Jack · 02-10-2019 11:07am

PMC83 wrote: »

Agreed, but if Georgia could afford it I think it would be good for them and the league. Theres been quiet talk of an american franchise but money aside it would just be adding another whipping boy to the PRO14.

Rugby has a definite ceiling in terms of popularity. A lot of people (like CVC) look at football and its money making ability and think 'why not rugby'. At the end of the day its a pretty niche sport, with 4/5 fully professional leagues spattered around the world.

Just for reference,
These are the fully professional leagues according to Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rugby_union#Professional_rugby

I didn't know about some of them.

thomond2006 · 02-10-2019 11:19am

PMC83 wrote: »

Give a Georgian side a year playing together so they can build some cohesion, add one or two marquee signings and they could potentially do ok, at least be a mid table team.

Southern kings, Dragons, Ospreys, Zebre..not exactly teams lighting up the league..

What marquee signings are going to move themselves and family to Georgia? Apparently Tbilisi is safe but the rest of the country may not be.

The travel costs would be a huge barrier. How many flights are there from the UK/Ireland to Georgia? I don't think addition to the Six Nations is a runner but that's more likely than a side joining the Pro14.

sydthebeat · 02-10-2019 11:20am

thomond2006 wrote: »

What marquee signings are going to move themselves and family to Georgia?

Ben Te'o ? :P

The Lost Sheep · 02-10-2019 11:22am

PMC83 wrote: »

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one so! What do you think in terms of pushing Georgia forward would be best option?

What basis do you have to think they would be better than those in the competition already?
Georgia need more access to internationals against 6 nations sides and rugby championship sides in November and June. Tests in Georgia as well as away tests.

PMC83 · 02-10-2019 11:34am

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

What basis do you have to think they would be better than those in the competition already?
Georgia need more access to internationals against 6 nations sides and rugby championship sides in November and June. Tests in Georgia as well as away tests.

None what so ever aside from the Southern kings who Georgia beat recently enough. I fully get that it would be something of an experiment.

I'd fancy their chances ahead against the Dragons and Zebre as well. Ospreys maybe/ maybe not. Obviously I can't back this up, just speculation.

PMC83 · 02-10-2019 11:42am

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Just for reference,
These are the fully professional leagues according to Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rugby_union#Professional_rugby

I didn't know about some of them.

Cheers, a few surprises in there for me too. Always figured the Didi10 was amateur!

Squidgy Black · 09-10-2019 9:34pm

Ma'a Nonu signed for San Diego Legion in the MLR.

Stefon Armitage had his contract revoked and has signed for Biarritz apparently.

Squidgy Black · 20-10-2019 12:06pm

Quade Cooper with one of the saltiest tweets of the year

https://twitter.com/QuadeCooper/status/1185810582466781185?s=19

shootermacg · 20-10-2019 7:25pm

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Quade Cooper with one of the saltiest tweets of the year

https://twitter.com/QuadeCooper/status/1185810582466781185?s=19

Players and their managers eh. It rarely ends well when they get dropped.

Synode · 20-10-2019 7:49pm

shootermacg wrote: »

Players and their managers eh. It rarely ends well when they get dropped.

The WhatsApp going around of Cheika's half time talk is hilarious. He's nuts

b.gud · 20-10-2019 8:12pm

Synode wrote: »

The WhatsApp going around of Cheika's half time talk is hilarious. He's nuts

Apparently it's an old recording of an AFL half time talk

jr86 · 20-10-2019 11:02pm

Very big win for newly promoted London Irish in first game of league away to wasps

Jackson got the start, which luckily for Irish avoided any real publicity due to the world cup. Apparently a good controlled performance but shaky early on off the tee.

Saints shocked Sarries yesterday in a real turn up for the books

AbusesToilets · 21-10-2019 12:50am

jr86 wrote: »

Very big win for newly promoted London Irish in first game of league away to wasps

Jackson got the start, which luckily for Irish avoided any real publicity due to the world cup. Apparently a good controlled performance but shaky early on off the tee.

Saints shocked Sarries yesterday in a real turn up for the books

Happy for Jackson, hope he can rebuild and continue to develop.

Captain_Crash · 21-10-2019 6:28am

jr86 wrote: »

Very big win for newly promoted London Irish in first game of league away to wasps

Jackson got the start, which luckily for Irish avoided any real publicity due to the world cup. Apparently a good controlled performance but shaky early on off the tee.

Saints shocked Sarries yesterday in a real turn up for the books

Watched it, was a fantastic game but JP Doyle done everything we could to march Wasps up the pitch and give them the win.... I've not seen such a one sided refereeing performance in years.

Although in saying that, he didn't give Wasps what was surely a P Try mid way trough the second half! deliberate slap down of a cross field kick on the try line stopping a certain try

21-10-2019 12:24pm

What do we make of the Kimmage- Heaslip story? Kimmage implying heavily that Heaslip was doping.

Mod edit:Unfounded and possible libellous speculation removed.

AbusesToilets · 21-10-2019 12:42pm

Deleted User wrote: »

What do we make of the Kimmage- Heaslip story? Kimmage implying heavily that Heaslip was doping.

Mod edit:Unfounded and possible libellous speculation removed.

I'd be surprised if a significant number of pro players aren't doping. It's incredibly easy to do and get away with. Look at the NFL, rampant there, and why not? If your livelyhood is built around getting selected, you'd be silly not to seek an edge.

General Rugby Discussion II

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