Fodder Crisis

Mooooo · 16-02-2019 1:37pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Yes it will happen on heavier covers and on lighter covers where there in no N. I have no issue as a beef man on heavier covers as this rises the dry matter and lowers the P in the grass. Dairying needs the P in the grass to keep solids in the milk. Those burnt tip on the grass are often above 70%DM and will raise the DM in the grass to the very high 20's and even low 30's. Cattle digest best at 40%DM excess water needs to be got rid of and takes energy just like wet turf and timber in a fire. As a finisher too much P will only grow not flesh cattle.

Nearly all research in Ireland is dairy based and Teagasc and other transfer it without looking further at it to transfer to beef. Them burnt tip are the enemy of the dairy man who is feeding 3+kgs of nuts and silage as he needs the P for solids and the ration will counteract the lower DM. This is why cattle growth is so poor in the autumn due to low DM in grass and the dairy man feeds higher rates og nuts to counteract same.

The most important thing about spring grass is you have enough of it. As a beef man I would not rush out cleaning off low covers it takes grass to grow grass. Like i said earlier in a normal year I be out now but I am away for a few weeks in April and need to make sure I have enough grass.

The stuff you graze now will be back in for april

I says · 16-02-2019 2:11pm

Looking for smelling salts for the boss man let cattle out today grazing silage ground. I’ll rehouse if weather turns if not they’re out for the season now.

Keepgrowing · 16-02-2019 3:21pm

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

And grass growing well for the tightest period of the year at the start of the second rotation.

It’s the second round tests your mettle

Timmaay · 16-02-2019 4:16pm

Bass you told me a week ago your beef margins are too tight to justify having any sort of silage reserve, yet right at the second you have a totally open goal to get in an extra rotation, reduce your silage, labour input, straw use etc and your not taking it for the fear that you won't believe able to graze in April. What if April is wet? Your stock will be going into big covers with very poor utilisation. I know its harder for a part time farmer to operate any sort of on off systems like dairyfarmers get away with, but at the minute ground conditions are good enough in alot of places to let animals out full time without any problems

TooOldBoots · 16-02-2019 4:39pm

Sold 100 bales of 1st cut silage last year, best of feeding, €35/bale. The young upstart rang yesterday reneging on the deal, gave me a load of guff about how silage wasn't making anything near what we agreed and that and that there's loads of grass everywhere now.
I didn't bother arguing just told him grand job. I thought it was bad form, a deal is a deal and to me a handshake is a mans contract.
I had to ring another customer I sold bales to last year and tell him what happened, wasn't on the phone 2 minutes when he told me he'd take the bales no question, said his cows were pumping milk last spring on the silage I sold him.
We might get an early spring but thats no reason to burn lads, its not as if I am making a fortune out of the bales

Timmaay · 16-02-2019 5:16pm

Take a deposit in future unless you absolutely trust them.

Reggie. · 16-02-2019 5:29pm

TooOldBoots wrote: »

Sold 100 bales of 1st cut silage last year, best of feeding, €35/bale. The young upstart rang yesterday reneging on the deal, gave me a load of guff about how silage wasn't making anything near what we agreed and that and that there's loads of grass everywhere now.
I didn't bother arguing just told him grand job. I thought it was bad form, a deal is a deal and to me a handshake is a mans contract.
I had to ring another customer I sold bales to last year and tell him what happened, wasn't on the phone 2 minutes when he told me he'd take the bales no question, said his cows were pumping milk last spring on the silage I sold him.
We might get an early spring but thats no reason to burn lads, its not as if I am making a fortune out of the bales

You'll have some craic next spring if he rings you looking for them bales

Dakota Dan · 16-02-2019 5:36pm

TooOldBoots wrote: »

Sold 100 bales of 1st cut silage last year, best of feeding, €35/bale. The young upstart rang yesterday reneging on the deal, gave me a load of guff about how silage wasn't making anything near what we agreed and that and that there's loads of grass everywhere now.
I didn't bother arguing just told him grand job. I thought it was bad form, a deal is a deal and to me a handshake is a mans contract.
I had to ring another customer I sold bales to last year and tell him what happened, wasn't on the phone 2 minutes when he told me he'd take the bales no question, said his cows were pumping milk last spring on the silage I sold him.
We might get an early spring but thats no reason to burn lads, its not as if I am making a fortune out of the bales

So sorry to hear you got done old boots.

TooOldBoots · 16-02-2019 5:38pm

Reggie. wrote: »

You'll have some craic next spring if he rings you looking for them bales

Be even more craic of we get the beast from the east in a few weeks time.
The artic truck booked for Tomorrow, says it was the only day he could get anyone free as they are flat out trucking fertilizer. So there will be zero bales left in the yard by the evening for the young upstart

So sorry to hear you got done old boots

I'll survive, you come across all types I guess

Bass Reeves · 16-02-2019 6:54pm

Mooooo wrote: »

The stuff you graze now will be back in for april

Keepgrowing wrote: »

It’s the second round tests your mettle

Timmaay wrote: »

Bass you told me a week ago your beef margins are too tight to justify having any sort of silage reserve, yet right at the second you have a totally open goal to get in an extra rotation, reduce your silage, labour input, straw use etc and your not taking it for the fear that you won't believe able to graze in April. What if April is wet? Your stock will be going into big covers with very poor utilisation. I know its harder for a part time farmer to operate any sort of on off systems like dairy farmers get away with, but at the minute ground conditions are good enough in alot of places to let animals out full time without any problems

I was posting more about this thing of grass melting due to frost or cold weather. As I posted there is another lad looking after the place for a few weeks during April so as KG posted i am watching the second rotation more than normal. Put 5 off today into a small paddock near the shed with an extra heavy cover, I expect to turn out another 30% of the stock in 10 days time. Depending on growth from now on will decide if I let more off. I stll have to house the lads on the rape they will finish it tomorrow. Now too often you are housing some after turning more out:rolleyes:

Expect to have more silage left over than I taught. My farm is very dry so utilisation is not an issue unless it buckets it in March and April. Drystock farms do not supplement after turnout and usually I have no issue turning out at this stage but for the April issue. My bullocks with compensatory growth will eat through covers very fast and they will clean out paddocks when in big bunches. I still expect to have average turnout date back by 7-10 days as it is when I let the remainder off will decide this.

lab man · 16-02-2019 7:07pm

TooOldBoots wrote:

Sold 100 bales of 1st cut silage last year, best of feeding, â‚¬35/bale. The young upstart rang yesterday reneging on the deal, gave me a load of guff about how silage wasn't making anything near what we agreed and that and that there's loads of grass everywhere now. I didn't bother arguing just told him grand job. I thought it was bad form, a deal is a deal and to me a handshake is a mans contract. I had to ring another customer I sold bales to last year and tell him what happened, wasn't on the phone 2 minutes when he told me he'd take the bales no question, said his cows were pumping milk last spring on the silage I sold him. We might get an early spring but thats no reason to burn lads, its not as if I am making a fortune out of the bales

Same has happened here the next bad year they can go whistle

wrangler · 16-02-2019 7:32pm

lab man wrote: »

Same has happened here the next bad year they can go whistle

If I sell something it's not sold till I get money, I tell every enquiry from done deal that nothing is held until the cheque is cleared.
As you see here it's madness doing it any other way

theaceofspies · 16-02-2019 7:45pm

Winter always comes - it doesn't have to be in the months you (or farm experts) expect. We haven't had a winter since last March.

gerryirl · 16-02-2019 7:53pm

TooOldBoots wrote: »

Sold 100 bales of 1st cut silage last year, best of feeding, €35/bale. The young upstart rang yesterday reneging on the deal, gave me a load of guff about how silage wasn't making anything near what we agreed and that and that there's loads of grass everywhere now.
I didn't bother arguing just told him grand job. I thought it was bad form, a deal is a deal and to me a handshake is a mans contract.
I had to ring another customer I sold bales to last year and tell him what happened, wasn't on the phone 2 minutes when he told me he'd take the bales no question, said his cows were pumping milk last spring on the silage I sold him.
We might get an early spring but thats no reason to burn lads, its not as if I am making a fortune out of the bales

he's the sort of fella youd want ringing you back in a month looking for them when they are all gone...

liosnagceann75 · 16-02-2019 9:34pm

Asked a neighbour for silage bales a few years ago and was turned down. Fast forward to New Years Day some time later when he stopped me on the road looking for assistance. 2 bullocks had fallen into a slatted tank and i used my loader to lift them out. He said if I ever needed anything to give him a shout. Asked him last Spring for silage and was turned down again. Needless to say i wont be lifting anymore animals out of tanks for him.
I also had agreed to buy 51 silage bales lately be because i believed i was going to be short. When the time came for the contractor to draw them i had plenty of my own silage left and didn't need them. I kept my word and took them. Im new enough to farming and there are some **** out there who have no word

older by the day · 16-02-2019 10:21pm

That's a lesson for any young farmer. Be self reliant. I am always helping neighbours and relatives, but I do because, thank God I have the ability and health to do it. But don't be dependant on anyone 99.9% percent of people are good, you will recognise the w**kers after a while

Pidae.m · 16-02-2019 10:23pm

older by the day wrote: »

That's a lesson for any young farmer. Be self reliant. I am always helping neighbours and relatives, but I do because, thank God I have the ability and health to do it. But don't be dependant on anyone 99.9% percent of people are good, you will recognise the w**kers after a while

No man's an island...... except Aran :}

Never wrestle with pigs · 16-02-2019 10:27pm

TooOldBoots wrote: »

Sold 100 bales of 1st cut silage last year, best of feeding, €35/bale. The young upstart rang yesterday reneging on the deal, gave me a load of guff about how silage wasn't making anything near what we agreed and that and that there's loads of grass everywhere now.
I didn't bother arguing just told him grand job. I thought it was bad form, a deal is a deal and to me a handshake is a mans contract.
I had to ring another customer I sold bales to last year and tell him what happened, wasn't on the phone 2 minutes when he told me he'd take the bales no question, said his cows were pumping milk last spring on the silage I sold him.
We might get an early spring but thats no reason to burn lads, its not as if I am making a fortune out of the bales

Whatever you do, don't even sell him a small square bale of hay again. People like that need a lesson every now and again. Hopefully he'll be short again.

TooOldBoots · 16-02-2019 10:34pm

liosnagceann75 wrote: »

Asked a neighbour for silage bales a few years ago and was turned down. Fast forward to New Years Day some time later when he stopped me on the road looking for assistance. 2 bullocks had fallen into a slatted tank and i used my loader to lift them out. He said if I ever needed anything to give him a shout. Asked him last Spring for silage and was turned down again. Needless to say i wont be lifting anymore animals out of tanks for him.
I also had agreed to buy 51 silage bales lately be because i believed i was going to be short. When the time came for the contractor to draw them i had plenty of my own silage left and didn't need them. I kept my word and took them. Im new enough to farming and there are some **** out there who have no word

Fair play to you for keeping to your deal. Its hard enough to get the balance of fodder right without going down the road of messing with lads

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

Whatever you do, don't even sell him a small square bale of hay again. People like that need a lesson every now and again. Hopefully he'll be short again.

No not a chance he'll get any. What was really annoying was he said he'd bring them by Christmas then not a word till now.
I only decided to sell him some bales as he's not long at it plus I didn't want to be selling to just one man.

As it turns out 1 good buyer is better than a dozen time wasters

older by the day · 16-02-2019 10:40pm

Pidae.m wrote: »

older by the day wrote: »

That's a lesson for any young farmer. Be self reliant. I am always helping neighbours and relatives, but I do because, thank God I have the ability and health to do it. But don't be dependant on anyone 99.9% percent of people are good, you will recognise the w**kers after a while

No man's an island...... except Aran :}

When it comes to silage, get rid of animals or buy during the summer. Because this time of the year you should try and be an island

wrangler · 16-02-2019 11:10pm

TooOldBoots wrote: »

Fair play to you for keeping to your deal. Its hard enough to get the balance of fodder right without going down the road of messing with lads

No not a chance he'll get any. What was really annoying was he said he'd bring them by Christmas then not a word till now.
I only decided to sell him some bales as he's not long at it plus I didn't want to be selling to just one man.

As it turns out 1 good buyer is better than a dozen time wasters

I advertised a cattle trailer during the year on DONE DEAL, priced at €4000, I got a lot of phone calls the first night, but one in particular was a neighbour that did his best to bully me to drop the price telling me even that I shouldn't be selling a trailer without brakes but he'd 'take it off my hands' anyway I told him that I wasn't dropping the price the first evening.
Next morning at 8am I got a phone call from a tipperary guy saying is that my dog looking out of her pen near the gate, I'd told what junction I lived near and he guessed this was my house, he bought the trailer and gave me a cheque, My neighbour phoned half an hour later to say he was coming to look at it........ telling him it was gone was very sweet

kk.man · 16-02-2019 11:43pm

wrangler wrote: »

I advertised a cattle trailer during the year on DONE DEAL, priced at €4000, I got a lot of phone calls the first night, but one in particular was a neighbour that did his best to bully me to drop the price telling me even that I shouldn't be selling a trailer without brakes but he'd 'take it off my hands' anyway I told him that I wasn't dropping the price the first evening.
Next morning at 8am I got a phone call from a tipperary guy saying is that my dog looking out of her pen near the gate, I'd told what junction I lived near and he guessed this was my house, he bought the trailer and gave me a cheque, My neighbour phoned half an hour later to say he was coming to look at it........ telling him it was gone was very sweet

Something similar here. I had a trailer for sale too. A guy called me from Louth. He doing his best to knock down the trailer without seeing it. I googled his tel number and turns out to be a butcher. This went on for a few days saying he need to know the bottom price before he travel that distance. I did not give an inch on the price but said it wasn't set in stone.
A young guy from the west arrived and bought it. Gave him a decent bit of luck. Guy from Louth rings back and told him it was gone but I asked him if that had been cattle or sheep would he try to negotiate over the phone!

memorystick · 17-02-2019 12:38am

TooOldBoots wrote: »

Sold 100 bales of 1st cut silage last year, best of feeding, €35/bale. The young upstart rang yesterday reneging on the deal, gave me a load of guff about how silage wasn't making anything near what we agreed and that and that there's loads of grass everywhere now.
I didn't bother arguing just told him grand job. I thought it was bad form, a deal is a deal and to me a handshake is a mans contract.
I had to ring another customer I sold bales to last year and tell him what happened, wasn't on the phone 2 minutes when he told me he'd take the bales no question, said his cows were pumping milk last spring on the silage I sold him.
We might get an early spring but thats no reason to burn lads, its not as if I am making a fortune out of the bales

I'm the very same. Have 100 to sell and yer man kicked. He's getting a toe in the hole the next time I see him. Have to move them as I want to put in yard.

lab man · 17-02-2019 2:00am

wrangler wrote:

If I sell something it's not sold till I get money, I tell every enquiry from done deal that nothing is held until the cheque is cleared. As you see here it's madness doing it any other way

How can u ask for money when bales are on the row in a field in july fella says I'll take 50 , 100 .. 70 I ask for money when bales are opened when loaded any bale with mould will not be loaded in winter. cause I've been that road, ah there was a few bits of mould on some baled which of 50 might be 2 bales total , selling bales here since late 70s my fathers time had guys come back in year 13 that were refused bales cause over not paying the total 10 yrs before the pen never lies

lab man · 17-02-2019 2:04am

Never wrestle with pigs wrote:

Whatever you do, don't even sell him a small square bale of hay again. People like that need a lesson every now and again. Hopefully he'll be short again.

Never say that u wish him to be short

Welding Rod · 17-02-2019 2:09am

lab man wrote: »

How can u ask for money when bales are on the row in a field in july fella says I'll take 50 , 100 .. 70 I ask for money when bales are opened when loaded any bale with mould will not be loaded in winter. cause I've been that road, ah there was a few bits of mould on some baled which of 50 might be 2 bales total , selling bales here since late 70s my fathers time had guys come back in year 13 that were refused bales cause over not paying the total 10 yrs before the pen never lies

Say that again.....

Bass Reeves · 17-02-2019 2:49am

lab man wrote: »

How can u ask for money when bales are on the row in a field in july fella says I'll take 50 , 100 .. 70 I ask for money when bales are opened when loaded any bale with mould will not be loaded in winter. cause I've been that road, ah there was a few bits of mould on some baled which of 50 might be 2 bales total , selling bales here since late 70s my fathers time had guys come back in year 13 that were refused bales cause over not paying the total 10 yrs before the pen never lies

Welding Rod wrote: »

Say that again.....

Its the same as any other business. If he wants them he buys them. Mould is always an issue with bales but only pre calving unless it s very serious. If a lad is buy as they are baled he takes them away there and then. If he expects you to store he takes the risk. Buyer has two choices buying out of the field he loads up and looks after or they are stored on your farm at his risk. He marks the bales and you stack them separate

lab man · 17-02-2019 9:49am

Bass Reeves wrote:

Its the same as any other business. If he wants them he buys them. Mould is always an issue with bales but only pre calving unless it s very serious. If a lad is buy as they are baled he takes them away there and then. If he expects you to store he takes the risk. Buyer has two choices buying out of the field he loads up and looks after or they are stored on your farm at his risk. He marks the bales and you stack them separate

Totally agreed, but back here in Clare tis 80% sucklers so money is fair scarce may to August

alps · 17-02-2019 10:23am

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Mould is always an issue with bales but only pre calving

Just as a side note....be careful with mould to milking cows. Mold can have antibiotic characteristics and can cause you to fail the inhibitor milk quality test...happened in a few cases last summer where some rations "sweated" and caused mould on the walls of feed bins.

Bass Reeves · 17-02-2019 11:04am

lab man wrote: »

Totally agreed, but back here in Clare tis 80% sucklers so money is fair scarce may to August

There used to be a sign in old electrical and furniture shops. A deposit secures any item. If you have dealt with lads a good bit it may not be necessary but for new customers or where a lad is taking a few grand of silage then it is a business requirement.

Fodder Crisis

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