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Two more victims of "unknown substance" in U.K.

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    #242
    kooper
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭kooper


    Grayson wrote: »
    bollocks. Crimeans woke up one morning to find that there were little green men everywhere. There wasn't a popular uprising against the Ukrainian government in Crimea. There weren't trainloads of nazi's heading there. The Russian government denied for weeks that it was their forces but then months later they said "oh yeah, those were our guys". They held a sham referendum where even the journalists from moscow voted and then declared that it was legitimate because a load of far right "observers" from across europe declared it was legit. Those far right observers did include actual neo nazi's.

    Meanwhile in Donetsk and Lugansk paramilitary forces, sponsored by Russia started taking over the place. The Russians supplemented them with russian troops and let's not forget the russian missile launcher that shot down a passenger jet.

    So please, don't peddle your bollox here. The facts of what happened in Ukraine are well established and have been proven over and over again.
    I'd say most of the thinking people understand it. It is more that 4 years since conflict in Ukraine started. So many events that wasn't known at the beginning now are widely known. It is already known who were the guys that seized Crimea parliament and made deputies to vote for the required decision. The work on identifying russian troops who killed Ukrainians in Donetsk region is going on. If anyone interested here is the link for database with russian militaries who fought in Ukraine: https://informnapalm.org/db/russian-aggression/#lang=en&page=m_unit . So if someone after all those years keep saying obvious bollox, I assume he is either very stubborn person (doesn't want or cannot accept the facts) or he is just paid for the job :).


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    #243
    xckjoo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,344 ✭✭✭xckjoo


    Annd9 wrote: »
    So you and other posters on here would be totally fine with a violent uprising in Ireland overthrowing the democratically elected government?
    After all we have been bled dry by EU puppets , we can't see a consultant unless you have a few quid , we can't afford to buy a house or pay rent (even with a decent job ) but if you dare to protest about this you are Scum because you break a couple of minor laws .
    Can you imagine the outrage if a few thousand people turned up on O'connell street dressed like medieval knights ready to fight the Garda to the death ?

    Crimea is not as simple as it's made out to be . Yes Russia should not of invaded but if you have ever talked to anyone with Russian decent from that area you would know they seriously feared for their lives .
    As for Ukraine not having a problem with the far right , I think you need to take a trip to Kiev , it might open your eyes .


    Funny, I worked with a woman from that area at the time and her opinion was completely contradictory to what you're saying. She was worried for the lives of her parents and other relatives still in the area, but it was because of what Russia might do. She completely identifies as Russian too. I only found out her home was in the Ukraine when the Crimea stuff kicked off.


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    #244
    10000maniacs
    Registered Users Posts: 4,806 ✭✭✭10000maniacs


    I am flying out for a 1 hour sightseeing visit to Salisbury myself. Flying back after I have walked around the town for an hour.
    Seriously though. Putin is looking for a war.


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    #245
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    mcmoustache wrote: »
    It took you 6 months to figure that out? You repeated every contradictory conspiracy that was spread by the Russians and refused to entertain what was obvious from the beginning. Have you considered that you are consuming media that's designed to confuse rather than inform?

    False I have always said it could be Russians read all the threads on the subject. Just because you have forgotten I have not.

    We still don't know if this was Russian intelligence you guys are assuming your right.


    If you don't believe that here my post from May 2018. I was not closed-minded ruling out Russians did this, I just wanted better evidence.
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=107005571

    I said
    I open it could be Russia but I don't see any evidence they were involved. It could easily be an internal dispute between Russians, organised crime, MI6 operation, family dispute, rogue agents who can say?


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    #246
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,127 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Annd9 wrote: »
    So you and other posters on here would be totally fine with a violent uprising in Ireland overthrowing the democratically elected government?
    After all we have been bled dry by EU puppets , we can't see a consultant unless you have a few quid , we can't afford to buy a house or pay rent (even with a decent job ) but if you dare to protest about this you are Scum because you break a couple of minor laws .
    Can you imagine the outrage if a few thousand people turned up on O'connell street dressed like medieval knights ready to fight the Garda to the death ?

    Crimea is not as simple as it's made out to be . Yes Russia should not of invaded but if you have ever talked to anyone with Russian decent from that area you would know they seriously feared for their lives .
    As for Ukraine not having a problem with the far right , I think you need to take a trip to Kiev , it might open your eyes .

    The president resigned and legged it after protests about his corruption. Corruption that has been proven time and time again.


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    #247
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users Posts: 7,237 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »

    I said
    I open it could be Russia but I don't see any evidence they were involved. It could easily be an internal dispute between Russians, organised crime, MI6 operation, family dispute, rogue agents who can say?

    To be fair, you've been a somewhat all over the place suggesting just about everything. A firehose, if you will, of búllshít. The most common theory that you proposed was a false flag, in effect, claiming that the Brits did this themselves. This was one of the many pieces of Russian propaganda that you were spreading.

    In the first few weeks of the poisoning, the Russian state, its media and it's politicians promoted multiple false and contradictory conspiracy theories as part of their typical disinformation program and you were on here spreading the same shíte.


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    Timing is strange because Russia was being accused of allowing chemical attacks inside Syria. It benefits the UK and America to have this spy murdered in time for the election and world cup. Russia now killing a spy with a nerve agent what amazing coincidence. This has all the markings of a false flag event.
    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    Thanks for posting those links, yes the newspapers did talk about it I was wrong.

    Still, though that news is still unconfirmed reports so it could be untrue? And why is the British police saying Skipral was poisoned by his car vents, car door or by his front door. Do you not think if they are finding nerve agents in the pub and restaurant this is where they got poisoned? And why is nobody else sick? The whole thing feels like false flag goalposts constantly moving in different directions.
    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    True. There is nothing achieved killing a pardoned spy. Just before the Russian election and Russia hosting the world cup an event watched by millions if not billions. Putin would have to be insane to risk the world cup for one man. A man handed over by them to UK officials 8 years ago. This whole thing is fishy and feels like another false flag event ( the obvious motive is to blame Russia) but we don't know who was behind the attack and why exactly it was carried out?
    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    Could be the Ukrainians? Could be Anti Putin people inside Russia planned the killed and had someone carry it out for them. Would not rule out a false flag event on UK soil? The timing is very interesting when Russia and Syria are blamed for killing Syrian civilians with chemical weapons in Ghouta ( false of course) and the West is currently looking for ways to intervene on behave of the jihadists? Killing a Russia spy on UK soil will convince most people ( people like you) it was Russia chemical attack and makes life easier for the UK government to deploy aircraft to Syria to bomb Assad forces when the time comes.
    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    I follow what the experts are saying. None of the experts claims only Russia could have made this nerve agent. This not the UK government position though they keep on saying could only have come from Russia. There is a military chemical facility just 10 minutes away from where Skipral and his daughter were found. This could be an MI6 operation. Their lot of reasons government intelligence agencies carry out false flags and remember this incident the people targetted was Skipral and his daughter. The policeman just got caught up in it?
    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    I can see what happened here and it's clearly a false flag.

    This is what the Doctor said on March 14th he disappeared from the scene now after making that statement.

    The London Times reported on March 14th "Steven Davies - Consultant in emergency medicine, Salisbury NHS Foundation Trust

    "May I clarify that no patients have experienced symptoms of nerve agent poisoning in Salisbury and there have only been ever been three patients with significant poisoning."

    Few days ago https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/salisbury-people-expose-nerve-agent-attack-theresa-may-a8275061.html

    More than 130 people could have been exposed to the military-grade nerve agent used in the attack on former Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter, Theresa May has said.

    In a statement to Parliament, the Prime Minister said 18 nations had announced they were expelling a total of more than 100 Russian intelligence officers in response to the attack in Salisbury. Since her st,statement the number of countries has risen to more than 20.

    The UK government pushing a false narrative and you people just don't see it, unfortunately.
    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    Russia Destroys Chemical Weapons, and Faults U.S. for Not Doing So

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/27/world/europe/russia-putin-chemical-weapons.html

    Hamid Ali Rao, the deputy director of the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons, a Hague-based body that polices adherence to the 1993 convention, declared the event “a truly momentous occasion.”

    He said that it “signals the full elimination of all chemical weapon stockpiles declared by the Russian Federation.”

    Russian statement hit home hard for people who got a brain. How did UK test for this nerve agent? What standard did they apply the test to and how did get there hands on the formula to make it. It looks more likely everyday this was another a false flag event with other fake Weapons of Mass Destruction declaration. Watch this space looks like the bad actors are back and looking to cause mayhem in the world.


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    #248
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,791 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Annd9 wrote: »
    So you and other posters on here would be totally fine with a violent uprising in Ireland overthrowing the democratically elected government?

    Democracies are not all the equal unfortunately. Ukraine was essentially a vassal state run by corrupt kleptocrats loyal only to Moscow. The previous "elections" were questionable, and less than 5% of Ukrainians believed they were free of vote rigging.

    That said, apart from a minority, the protests were relatively peaceful. Several hundred thousand people marched over several days with their families and kids. Later, when protests intensified, Yanukovych ordered his (special guard) to open fire on protesters and over 100 were killed. That's when the situation really changed


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    #249
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    mcmoustache wrote: »
    To be fair, you've been a somewhat all over the place suggesting just about everything. A firehose, if you will, of búllshít. The most common theory that you proposed was a false flag, in effect, claiming that the Brits did this themselves. This was one of the many pieces of Russian propaganda that you were spreading.

    In the first few weeks of the poisoning, the Russian state, its media and it's politicians promoted multiple false and contradictory conspiracy theories as part of their typical disinformation program and you were on here spreading the same shíte.

    There still no evidence these guys are Russian intelligence agents. What your proof they are? What if they are only Russian tourists? Can we really be certain they're not? Yes, I find their tourist story not credible, but that does not mean they were sent to Salisbury by Putin, to carry out out a hit.

    You ignoring the evidence so far. The Skiprals left their home at just after 9 am, there no CTV footage released of them returning home. This is problematic because they were spotted leaving home and moving around to different locations in Salisbury town. If they did not return home they were not poisoned by Novitchok on the doorknob, the Russians did not arrive in Salisbury till late after 11 am The Skiprals turned off their phones at the same time British police confirmed this finding. It likely they were trying to avoid surveillance that day, and they possibly were heading out to meet someone? The Novitchok bottle found in Charlie Rowley home was plastic wrapped and sealed? Impossible this was the same batch used to poison Skipral and his daughter. There many discrepancies that you are overlooking.


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    #250
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Democracies are not all the equal unfortunately. Ukraine was essentially a vassal state run by corrupt kleptocrats loyal only to Moscow. The previous "elections" were questionable, and less than 5% of Ukrainians believed they were free of vote rigging.

    That said, apart from a minority, the protests were relatively peaceful. Several hundred thousand people marched over several days with their families and kids. Later, when protests intensified, Yanukovych ordered his (special guard) to open fire on protesters and over 100 were killed. That's when the situation really changed

    I thought it came out in a Ukrainian court the shooting was done by Georgians.

    Aired on Italian TV.

    The "evidence" was contained in a film aired a few days earlier on Italian TV, which featured three Georgians who said they were part of a group of foreign snipers paid to gun down protesters and police in Kyiv and thus provoke Yanukovych's overthrow, according to BBC.

    This is the Italian documentary about this with subtitles.



    Estonian Minister confirms in this documentary the same bullets from the same guns hit police and protestors, confirmed by Ukrainian doctors.


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    #251
    Annd9
    Registered Users Posts: 214 ✭✭Annd9


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Democracies are not all the equal unfortunately. Ukraine was essentially a vassal state run by corrupt kleptocrats loyal only to Moscow. The previous "elections" were questionable, and less than 5% of Ukrainians believed they were free of vote rigging.

    That said, apart from a minority, the protests were relatively peaceful. Several hundred thousand people marched over several days with their families and kids. Later, when protests intensified, Yanukovych ordered his (special guard) to open fire on protesters and over 100 were killed. That's when the situation really changed



    The protesters and police were shot a few days after the civil war erupted on the maidan. I am not defending Yanukovych in any way however there is always two sides to a story .
    So have a listen to this .

    https://youtu.be/ZEgJ0oo3OA8


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    #252
    Elmer Blooker
    Registered Users Posts: 6,044 ✭✭✭Elmer Blooker


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Democracies are not all the equal unfortunately. Ukraine was essentially a vassal state run by corrupt kleptocrats loyal only to Moscow. The previous "elections" were questionable, and less than 5% of Ukrainians believed they were free of vote rigging.

    That said, apart from a minority, the protests were relatively peaceful. Several hundred thousand people marched over several days with their families and kids. Later, when protests intensified, Yanukovych ordered his (special guard) to open fire on protesters and over 100 were killed. That's when the situation really changed
    And Ukraine today?
    Of course the usual suspects here will use the now standard diversionary tactic by attacking my source but this is the reality of whats going on in EU backed Ukraine.
    A very wise decision by Crimea who voted overwhelmingly not to part of mob ruled Ukraine!
    No Outrage or Media Coverage by Ukraine's Staunchest Allies.
    Not a single US, Canadian or EU News media took the trouble to cover the story.
    https://www.globalresearch.ca/hitler-is-the-torchbearer-of-democracy-according-to-chairman-of-ukraines-parliament/5653184
    Crimeans woke up one morning to find that there were little green men everywhere.
    Describe to me Grayson how Crimea became part of Ukraine? Thanks in advance.


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    #253
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Annd9 wrote: »
    The protesters and police were shot a few days after the civil war erupted on the maidan. I am not defending Yanukovych in any way however there is always two sides to a story .
    So have a listen to this .

    https://youtu.be/ZEgJ0oo3OA8

    The evidence clearly shows the protestors and police were killed by the same sniper team. Some people will deny that, but then they are denying forensic evidence collected by Ukraine doctors.

    That those snipers came from Georgia is not that surprising. Mikheil Saakashvili their president at the time is considered a neocon hero by people in the US.


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    #254
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Let's not forget this conversation. US officials openly talking who should be in power in Ukraine and the US deciding the outcome. I love when this stuff gets leaked it exposes their dirty dealings.



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    #255
    xckjoo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,344 ✭✭✭xckjoo


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    There still no evidence these guys are Russian intelligence agents. What your proof they are? What if they are only Russian tourists? Can we really be certain they're not? Yes, I find their tourist story not credible, but that does not mean they were sent to Salisbury by Putin, to carry out out a hit.

    You ignoring the evidence so far. The Skiprals left their home at just after 9 am, there no CTV footage released of them returning home. This is problematic because they were spotted leaving home and moving around to different locations in Salisbury town. If they did not return home they were not poisoned by Novitchok on the doorknob, the Russians did not arrive in Salisbury till late after 11 am The Skiprals turned off their phones at the same time British police confirmed this finding. It likely they were trying to avoid surveillance that day, and they possibly were heading out to meet someone? The Novitchok bottle found in Charlie Rowley home was plastic wrapped and sealed? Impossible this was the same batch used to poison Skipral and his daughter. There many discrepancies that you are overlooking.


    No of course not. And you'd totally expect concrete proof that a foreign agent committed an assassination on your soil. I think they're required to submit a written application before doing so aren't they? So it can't be that. Governments love bureaucracy so they'd be all about the paperwork if they did work for the government.

    They were clearly independent business men on independent business. Or was it on holidays? Independent holidays. Probably saving for years for it. Was going to be the holiday of a lifetime until their feet got wet. I just hope they didn't come in contact with any of that Russian-made nerve agent that was in their hotel room. You just can't trust hotels these days. Always leaving traces of illegal, foreign nerve agents in the sheets


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    #256
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users Posts: 7,237 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    There still no evidence these guys are Russian intelligence agents. What your proof they are? What if they are only Russian tourists? Can we really be certain they're not? Yes, I find their tourist story not credible, but that does not mean they were sent to Salisbury by Putin, to carry out out a hit.

    You ignoring the evidence so far. The Skiprals left their home at just after 9 am, there no CTV footage released of them returning home. This is problematic because they were spotted leaving home and moving around to different locations in Salisbury town. If they did not return home they were not poisoned by Novitchok on the doorknob, the Russians did not arrive in Salisbury till late after 11 am The Skiprals turned off their phones at the same time British police confirmed this finding. It likely they were trying to avoid surveillance that day, and they possibly were heading out to meet someone? The Novitchok bottle found in Charlie Rowley home was plastic wrapped and sealed? Impossible this was the same batch used to poison Skipral and his daughter. There many discrepancies that you are overlooking.

    This is little more than a gish-gallop of Russian proportions. So much so that I'm not even sure what you're trying to say. I think you're firehosing again.

    We know that this act was committed by the two people who appeared on Russia Today. If you want to dispute that, please use facts and not the kind of nonsense that that's more suited to the conspiracy theory forum or the Russian media where many of these conspiracy theories originate.

    Like I said, it's known who the perpetrators are. You keep saying that things don't make sense based on incomplete information and the bad misinformation that you're filling your head with. Do you know what doesn't make sense? A pair of Russian men in their thirties travelling to Salisbury twice while staying in a hotel room in London where traces of novichok were found and those men not being involved in the poisoning. Do you know what makes even less sense? These same men picking up the phone to call the chief editor of RT's mobile, claiming to own a fitness business and not advertising the damn thing.


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    #257
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    xckjoo wrote: »
    No of course not. And you'd totally expect concrete proof that a foreign agent committed an assassination on your soil. I think they're required to submit a written application before doing so aren't they? So it can't be that. Governments love bureaucracy so they'd be all about the paperwork if they did work for the government.

    They were clearly independent business men on independent business. Or was it on holidays? Independent holidays. Probably saving for years for it. Was going to be the holiday of a lifetime until their feet got wet. I just hope they didn't come in contact with any of that Russian-made nerve agent that was in their hotel room. You just can't trust hotels these days. Always leaving traces of illegal, foreign nerve agents in the sheets

    Do you know these men shared the same room while staying in London? You could say they were sharing a room so they can carry out their operation privately and not be apart. Or this could also be an indication they were two gay men. This would be a problematic declaration for them to make since they live in Russia.

    Their passport does show they travel a lot. They visited Milan, Geneva, Paris, Amsterdam, and Rome since 2016

    This can be easily solved by showing CTV footage of Skipral car returning home when it alleged these guys sprayed Novicthok on the door of the Skipral home. You can't say that video doesn't exist because they were captured on video leaving.


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    #258
    kooper
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭kooper


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    There still no evidence these guys are Russian intelligence agents. What your proof they are? What if they are only Russian tourists? Can we really be certain they're not? Yes, I find their tourist story not credible, but that does not mean they were sent to Salisbury by Putin, to carry out out a hit.

    You ignoring the evidence so far. The Skiprals left their home at just after 9 am, there no CTV footage released of them returning home. This is problematic because they were spotted leaving home and moving around to different locations in Salisbury town. If they did not return home they were not poisoned by Novitchok on the doorknob, the Russians did not arrive in Salisbury till late after 11 am The Skiprals turned off their phones at the same time British police confirmed this finding. It likely they were trying to avoid surveillance that day, and they possibly were heading out to meet someone? The Novitchok bottle found in Charlie Rowley home was plastic wrapped and sealed? Impossible this was the same batch used to poison Skipral and his daughter. There many discrepancies that you are overlooking.
    I wouldn't even argue with this guy, here he says that there is no evidence, that this guys are spies, though UK police presented the map of their movement, that traces of Novichok were found in their room, next he gives a link to some documentary saying that this documentary is based on facts. And the facts are that couple guys that say that they did the shooting,I wonder if they were arrested? Any police investigation, there? Or just blah, blah from russian propagandists??? . Looks like the story with Ukrainian pilot Voloshin, that claimed that he shoot down boeing or Spanish air controller, what ever was his name, that claimed he saw that Ukrainian jet did it(and later proved to be pure product of russian propaganda). It pure manipulation, though the goal of russian propaganda not to convince you but to give you a reason to doubt something, all by the book :).


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    #259
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,127 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Elmer Blooker wrote: »
    Describe to me Grayson how Crimea became part of Ukraine? Thanks in advance.

    Does it matter? It was part of Ukraine. Russia invaded a sovereign country that they had a treaty with


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    #260
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    kooper wrote: »
    I wouldn't even argue with this guy, here he says that there is no evidence, that this guys are spies, though UK police presented the map of their movement, that traces of Novichok were found in their room, next he gives a link to some documentary saying that this documentary is based on facts. And the facts are that couple guys that say that they did the shooting,I wonder if they were arrested? Any police investigation, there? Or just blah, blah from russian propagandists??? . Looks like the story with Ukrainian pilot Voloshin, that claimed that he shoot down boeing or Spanish air controller, what ever was his name, that claimed he saw that Ukrainian jet did it(and later proved to be pure product of russian propaganda). It pure manipulation, though the goal of russian propaganda not to convince you but to give you a reason to doubt something, all by the book :).

    You think CTV images is evidence they are spies, Jesus.

    The only thing for certain right now they were Russians who travelled to Salisbury.

    That hotel thing doesn't make any sense. If Novitchok was released in the room people will be feeling sick. You think nobody dressed the beds and cleaned up after they left or other guests stayed in that room? Novichok according to the scientists was a military grade nerve agent and 10 times more potent than VX gas.


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    #261
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users Posts: 7,237 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    The only thing for certain right now they were Russians who travelled to Salisbury.

    Is Salisbury popular as a day trip location for non-baltic Russians?

    In any case, the cathedral story that they gave doesn't make sense:

    They say the snow had melted in London and it was warmer. “We really wanted to see Old Sarum and the cathedral,” said Petrov. They imply that this time they did reach the cathedral and possibly Old Sarum. “The cathedral is very beautiful,” said Boshirov. The pair said they took pictures at the cathedral – and would have been spotted by CCTV cameras there. No images have been released by the counter-terrorism police of them at or near the cathedral. Sources at the cathedral said they have no knowledge of them visiting. They could not have visited Old Sarum – it was closed.
    According to the UK authorities, after arriving in Salisbury at 11.48am on 4 March, the men did not go straight to the city centre or the cathedral. They should have turned right into the city if they were on the tourist trail. Instead they turned left and walked directly to the residential area north-west of the city where Skripal lived. They were caught at 11.58am by a CCTV camera at a Shell petrol station on Wilton Road. On the opposite side of the road is a tree-lined path that leads up to the Skripal house on Christie Miller Road. If they went straight to the house and carried out the attack, they would have been at the Skripal front door shortly after noon.

    Why would a pair of tourists on a day trip to Salisbury end up in a residential area near the Skripals which is 3 Km from the Cathedral when they were only in Salisbury for 2 hours? You keep saying that things don't make sense but it's obvious that the explanations from these two are what don't make sense.


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    #262
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    mcmoustache wrote: »
    Is Salisbury popular as a day trip location for non-baltic Russians?

    In any case, the cathedral story that they gave doesn't make sense:


    Why would a pair of tourists on a day trip to Salisbury end up in a residential area near the Skripals which is 3 Km from the Cathedral when they were only in Salisbury for 2 hours? You keep saying that things don't make sense but it's obvious that the explanations from these two are what don't make sense.

    I don't know but a lot of people from foreign countries visit Salisbury. Stonehenge is not far from there and these Russian men have claimed they were heading there, but heavy snow stopped them from getting there.

    That second report is false they were captured on video walking near the petrol station on the main road that was nearby to Skipral home. There no evidence of them entering the estate to Skipral home.

    Why don't the British police just release CTV footage of the Skiprals car returning home between 12.00 noon and 1 o clock? It would prove the British claim is correct the Skiprals were poisoned at home. They were able to track their movements when they left home at 9 am and when they were seen in the town.

    But there no evidence yet produced showing them returning home after they left at 9 am in the morning. Are they saying there no CTV footage scanning roads near where they live? That's false and we all know it.


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    #263
    indioblack
    Registered Users Posts: 1,936 ✭✭✭indioblack


    mcmoustache wrote: »
    Is Salisbury popular as a day trip location for non-baltic Russians?

    In any case, the cathedral story that they gave doesn't make sense:





    Why would a pair of tourists on a day trip to Salisbury end up in a residential area near the Skripals which is 3 Km from the Cathedral when they were only in Salisbury for 2 hours? You keep saying that things don't make sense but it's obvious that the explanations from these two are what don't make sense.
    Salisbury is a nice place to visit. I've seen the cathedral spire, [which I now know the height of!], and the clock. Did they go to Old Sarum? They should have - it's interesting.
    I live 40 miles from Salisbury so I can drive there, the train will take you there - bus, too.
    If I lived in Edinburgh would I travel down to visit Salisbury? I might, [probably not].
    If I lived in Russia would I come all this way to see a cathedral spire?


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    #264
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,175 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    indioblack wrote: »
    Salisbury is a nice place to visit. I've seen the cathedral spire, [which I now know the height of!], and the clock. Did they go to Old Sarum? They should have - it's interesting.
    I live 40 miles from Salisbury so I can drive there, the train will take you there - bus, too.
    If I lived in Edinburgh would I travel down to visit Salisbury? I might, [probably not].
    If I lived in Russia would I come all this way to see a cathedral spire?


    they claim they went there but it was closed on the day they said they were there.


  • Options
    #265
    xckjoo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,344 ✭✭✭xckjoo


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    Do you know these men shared the same room while staying in London? You could say they were sharing a room so they can carry out their operation privately and not be apart. Or this could also be an indication they were two gay men. This would be a problematic declaration for them to make since they live in Russia.

    Their passport does show they travel a lot. They visited Milan, Geneva, Paris, Amsterdam, and Rome since 2016


    Why attack me? I was defending them. Occams Razor and all that.



    How do you know they were in Milan, Geneva, Paris, Amsterdam and Rome? Did you see their passport? Don't tell me you just accept it as true because that's what the media said?


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    #266
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    xckjoo wrote: »
    Why attack me? I was defending them. Occams Razor and all that.



    How do you know they were in Milan, Geneva, Paris, Amsterdam and Rome? Did you see their passport? Don't tell me you just accept it as true because that's what the media said?

    Scotland Yard said that the two men had “travelled extensively” on their passports. Fontanka reported the two had visited Milan, Geneva, Amsterdam and Paris several times since September 2016.
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/salisbury-poisoning-suspects-are-civilians-not-criminals-says-putin-1.3626708

    I read another news report they also visited Rome.


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    #267
    xckjoo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,344 ✭✭✭xckjoo


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    I don't know but a lot of people from foreign countries visit Salisbury. Stonehenge is not far from there and these Russian men have claimed they were heading there, but heavy snow stopped them from getting there.

    That second report is false they were captured on video walking near the petrol station on the main road that was nearby to Skipral home. There no evidence of them entering the estate to Skipral home.

    Why don't the British police just release CTV footage of the Skiprals car returning home between 12.00 noon and 1 o clock? It would prove the British claim is correct the Skiprals were poisoned at home. They were able to track their movements when they left home at 9 am and when they were seen in the town.

    But there no evidence yet produced showing them returning home after they left at 9 am in the morning. Are they saying there no CTV footage scanning roads near where they live? That's false and we all know it.


    Why do you think the British police are under any obligation to prove anything to you? Their obligation is to the safety of the British public.


  • Options
    #268
    xckjoo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,344 ✭✭✭xckjoo


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    Scotland Yard said that the two men had “travelled extensively” on their passports. Fontanka reported the two had visited Milan, Geneva, Amsterdam and Paris several times since September 2016.
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/salisbury-poisoning-suspects-are-civilians-not-criminals-says-putin-1.3626708

    I read another news report they also visited Rome.


    But you haven't seen the passports so how do you know that it's true?


  • Options
    #269
    kooper
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭kooper


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    You think CTV images is evidence they are spies, Jesus.

    The only thing for certain right now they were Russians who travelled to Salisbury.

    That hotel thing doesn't make any sense. If Novitchok was released in the room people will be feeling sick. You think nobody dressed the beds and cleaned up after they left or other guests stayed in that room? Novichok according to the scientists was a military grade nerve agent and 10 times more potent than VX gas.
    what evidence will prove to you that they are spies? Do you want them to have some ID, that would say @I AM A SPY@ ??? Or may be other day Putin will make speech that it was successful operation held on foreign ground, just like in Crimea? I'd bet that even if UK police will show video where those 2 guys spray something on that handle of the house, you would still arguing that we don't know what are they spraying and it might be just perfumes, to make home owners happy. So what evidence will prove to you that those guys are spies?


  • Options
    #270
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users Posts: 7,237 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    Scotland Yard said that the two men had “travelled extensively” on their passports. Fontanka reported the two had visited Milan, Geneva, Amsterdam and Paris several times since September 2016.
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/salisbury-poisoning-suspects-are-civilians-not-criminals-says-putin-1.3626708

    I read another news report they also visited Rome.

    Fontanka also said that their passports from 2016 had similar numbers:
    One passport number ended at 1294, the other at 1297, indicating that the documents were probably issued at the same time.

    Maybe they applied at the same time? I don't know enough about fontanka to say whether it can be trusted, however.

    They also said that they booked two flights back to Russia. One on Monday and one on Sunday. That's a bit strange for a tourist too but I don't know if this has been confirmed elsewhere.


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  • Options
    #271
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    xckjoo wrote: »
    Why do you think the British police are under any obligation to prove anything to you? Their obligation is to the safety of the British public.



    The British police version right now is Skipral and his daughter was poisoned between 12 noon and 1 pm at home.

    The evidence right now though shows they left home at 9 am and never returned home.

    The British police then released CTV of the men walking on a road near their home? If the claim is these men headed to the Skipral home, sprayed this stuff on the door and left.

    How do you prove the Skipral and his daughter were indeed poisoned at home you release CTV of their car traveling home between 12am and 1pm that a very convincing case the Skiprals were poisoned at home.

    The British police and media are overlooking that the Skiprals were spotted between 1 pm and 4 pm at pubs and restaurants perfectly fine and eating their supper. How long does it take for this nerve agent to kick in? Three hours is a long time for it to work, it just doesn't add up.


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