Two more victims of "unknown substance" in U.K.

wexie · 04-10-2018 5:19pm

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

I should have known. This orchestrated attack on Russia today coincides with a NATO Defence Ministers meeting with 'cyber threats' on the agenda.]

And of course you are absolutely sure they're not having this meeting because of an increase in cyber threats?!

:Rolleyes:

mcmoustache · 04-10-2018 5:28pm

wexie wrote: »

I thought the official line was that 'nobody by that name ever received the award'?

That was just Putin's spokesman so I guess it's the official line. The problem is that Russia lies all the time and very badly at that. Chepiga's picture and reasons for receiving the award are public information. On his military academy's website, you can see all of the people who ware given that award and the reasons. Down at the bottom are Chepiga and some guy called Popov. Run it through google translate for more information.

Interestingly, the same website (dvoku.mil.ru) also has a picture of the wall with Chepiga on it.

So on the one hand, the Russian government denies that they have records of him getting that award, while at the same time, the Russian military tells the world that he was indeed given the award. Russian lies in action, folks.

Dohnjoe · 04-10-2018 5:28pm

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

I should have known.

Care to explain with evidence how these 4 men were in that situation with that equipment?

Dohnjoe · 04-10-2018 5:34pm

mcmoustache wrote: »

So on the one hand, the Russian government denies that they have records of him getting that award, while at the same time, the Russian military tells the world that he was indeed given the award. Russian lies in action, folks.

Russian investigative reporters must be spinning in their graves

mcmoustache · 04-10-2018 5:45pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Russian investigative reporters must be spinning in their graves

:eek:

That's dark.

wexie · 04-10-2018 5:46pm

mcmoustache wrote: »

So on the one hand, the Russian government denies that they have records of him getting that award, while at the same time, the Russian military tells the world that he was indeed given the award. Russian lies in action, folks.

What was the term used for that again? Implausible deniability?

By the way the downing of MH-17 was in 2014 as well.... Just throwing it out there if we're talking conspiracies like.

wexie · 04-10-2018 5:47pm

mcmoustache wrote: »

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Russian investigative reporters must be spinning in their graves

:eek:

That's dark.

More likely than not true as well though

Elmer Blooker · 04-10-2018 6:15pm

mcmoustache wrote: »

By assertive, he means that Russia is engaging in international fúckery.

I'm not sure why you're so confused. If Russia engages in cyber fúckery against nato members, a response is to be expected. It's simple stuff, not some grand conspiracy.

Do try and come out with something different for a change.

Care to explain with evidence how these 4 men were in that situation with that equipment?

Evidence? Who needs evidence? Our fair, free and morally superior media tells us so it must be true.

And of course you are absolutely sure they're not having this meeting because of an increase in cyber threats?!

I doubt it. Iraq and Libya weren't destroyed over 'cyber' threats.
Hacking/cyber warfare is the new 'weapons of mass destruction'.

I've just been listening to a 'freelance' journalist on RTE radio and he said that these 4 men had in their possession a taxi receipt for a journey from GRU HQ to Moscow airport!! Who makes this juvenile stuff up?

mcmoustache · 04-10-2018 6:44pm

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Do try and come out with something different for a change.

Evidence? Who needs evidence? Our fair, free and morally superior media tells us so it must be true.

I doubt it. Iraq and Libya weren't destroyed over 'cyber' threats.
Hacking/cyber warfare is the new 'weapons of mass destruction'.

Sigh. I already posted evidence from a Russian military website. We have also used evidence from Russia Today. Trying to pretend that this is all some plot by the media might not look stupid in Russia but it does over here.

In fact, loads of evidence has been presented and the best that you could come up with is unfounded claims of a conspiracy of fabrication. As you guys like to say, gib proofs.

I'm not sure what your point is regarding Libya. If you're trying to make a comparison between Libya and Russia, the existence of nukes renders your comparison nonsensical.

Dohnjoe · 04-10-2018 6:48pm

wexie wrote: »

By the way the downing of MH-17 was in 2014 as well.... Just throwing it out there if we're talking conspiracies like.

Speaking of..

A laptop seized from the suspects was found to have been used in Brazil, Switzerland and Malaysia, the Dutch officials said.

The cyber-operation in Malaysia targeted the attorney general's office and Malaysian police as well as the investigation into MH17's shooting down, Ambassador Wilson said.

Earlier this year Dutch-led international investigators concluded that a missile that brought down MH17 belonged to a Russian brigade. Russia has denied any involvement in the plane's destruction, which led to the deaths of many Dutch citizens.

Data from the laptop showed it was also present in the Swiss city of Lausanne where it was linked to the hacking of a laptop belonging to Wada, which has exposed doping by Russian athletes.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45746837

The US aren't happy with these guys either, here's the FBI wanted posted related to anti-doping hacking

Oh hey, there they are. These poor holiday-goers must be the victims of a giant global conspiracy

Dohnjoe · 04-10-2018 6:53pm

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Evidence? Who needs evidence? Our fair, free and morally superior media tells us so it must be true.

Deflection and hypocritical (you repeatedly demonstrate that you swallow Kremlin propaganda without question)

Second time asking - care to explain this situation?

mcmoustache · 04-10-2018 6:54pm

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

I've just been listening to a 'freelance' journalist on RTE radio and he said that these 4 men had in their possession a taxi receipt for a journey from GRU HQ to Moscow airport!! Who makes this juvenile stuff up?

Why do you think it's made up? You're aware of the argument from personal incredulity fallacy, right? If you have evidence that the receipt is fake, out with it please.

Russian OpSec is a bit shíte these days. In fact, only recently there were two GRU operatives who went to Salisbury to kill someone and failed.

mcmoustache · 04-10-2018 7:03pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Speaking of..

I have a funny story for you Don. See Moronets up there?

He registered his Lada and provided an address of Komsomolsky Prospekt 20. This is a military base.

Even better, the same database has a heap of others who gave that address in their registrations. 305 of them in fact. That's 305 potentially exposed GRU operatives. More information on that can be found here.

Thrill · 04-10-2018 7:41pm

The U.S. and the U.K. collaborated to convince the world that Saddam had WMD. I'll never believe them again.

Elmer Blooker · 04-10-2018 7:53pm

mcmoustache wrote: »

Why do you think it's made up? You're aware of the argument from personal incredulity fallacy, right? If you have evidence that the receipt is fake, out with it please.

Where did I say the receipt was fake? These "sources" that RTE use are never asked a single question when the topic is Russia (and Syria)
I have NEVER EVER heard a RTE presenter ask a serious question when Russia/Putin is the topic.
Anyway the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations states:

Article 27. The host country must permit and protect free communication between the diplomats of the mission and their home country. A diplomatic bag must never be opened even on suspicion of abuse. A diplomatic courier must never be arrested or detained.

Were these 4 holders of diplomatic passports arrested, searched or detained? How was this "receipt" discovered?
THAT is the simple question that I would have asked but I'm talking about RTE here.

Gatling · 04-10-2018 7:57pm

Comrade elmer how was the gulag ,

It's been quite without you (depending on which version)

mcmoustache · 04-10-2018 8:03pm

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Where did I say the receipt was fake? These "sources" that RTE use are never asked a single question when the topic is Russia (and Syria)
I have NEVER EVER heard a RTE presenter ask a serious question when Russia/Putin is the topic.
Anyway the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations states:

Were these 4 holders of diplomatic passports arrested, searched or detained? How was this "receipt" discovered?
THAT is the simple question that I would have asked but I'm talking about RTE here.

Ah. So you're saying that it's not fair that they were caught. That's OK.

The fact is that they were caught in the act and that searches uncovered a lot of evidence of further illegal activity.

wexie · 04-10-2018 8:08pm

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Were these 4 holders of diplomatic passports arrested, searched or detained? How was this "receipt" discovered?
THAT is the simple question that I would have asked but I'm talking about RTE here.

been reported in plenty of other media, they were detained, searched and turfed out the country without all of their belongings because the dutch authorities figured it'd be too much of a headache with the diplomatic passports.

funnily enough....I'd have thought that if a host country detained a genuine diplomat and then threw them out of the country without their belongings more of a stink would have been made out of it no?

I wonder why that didn't happen in this case? Any ideas? :rolleyes:

From here : https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45747472

The group were being continually monitored by the intelligence services, and were eventually intercepted by the authorities on 13 April.

When this happened they tried to destroy one of the mobile phones they were carrying, which officials say shows their heightened awareness of security.

They had also collected their litter from the hotel they were staying at, also allegedly for security reasons.

The four men were detained and expelled to Moscow rather than being arrested. This is probably because they had diplomatic passports and, under the 1961 Vienna Convention, diplomats are theoretically immune from prosecution.

They were escorted to Schiphol airport and put on a plane without any of their items, and the intelligence services were in charge of the operation.

"The decision taken at the time of catching the operatives was to disrupt as quickly as possible so we deported them, it was not a police operation," the director of the Dutch intelligence service said.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 04-10-2018 8:15pm

The West seems to be upping its propaganda war. Spies be spies.

It’s interesting what’s published and not published. Everybody spies on everybody. Only some become a cause celebre.

mcmoustache · 04-10-2018 8:23pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

The West seems to be upping its propaganda war. Spies be spies.

It’s interesting what’s published and not published. Everybody spies on everybody. Only some become a cause celebre.

Do you not believe that Russian spies killed an innocent Brit?

wexie · 04-10-2018 8:27pm

Just checking some of the Dutch newspapers, apparently these 4 poor innocent tourists :rolleyes: were also carrying 20000 euros in cash....as ya do like

https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2018/10/04/mivd-verijdelde-russische-cyberaanval-op-opcw-in-den-haag-a2186350

Elmer Blooker · 04-10-2018 8:38pm

wexie wrote: »

Just checking some of the Dutch newspapers, apparently these 4 poor innocent tourists :rolleyes: were also carrying 20000 euros in cash....as ya do like

https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2018/10/04/mivd-verijdelde-russische-cyberaanval-op-opcw-in-den-haag-a2186350

Don't tell me ..... according to "sources".
Am I right?

Gatling · 04-10-2018 8:38pm

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Don't tell me ..... according to "sources".
Am I right?

Would you rather according to the Kremlin.

wexie · 04-10-2018 8:41pm

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Don't tell me ..... according to "sources".
Am I right?

ehm.....according to the people that actually detained and deported them.

But you can call them sources if you want.

wexie · 04-10-2018 8:46pm

For anybody who wants to read it here is the letter that the Dutch MIVD/DISS sent to the Dutch parliament to inform them off this operation

https://www.defensie.nl/onderwerpen/militaire-inlichtingen-en-veiligheid/downloads/kamerstukken/2018/10/04/kamerbrief-verstoring-gru-operatie-engels

(It's in english)

here's the current news page of the MIVD/DISS

https://www.defensie.nl/onderwerpen/militaire-inlichtingen-en-veiligheid/nieuws

mcmoustache · 04-10-2018 8:47pm

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Don't tell me ..... according to "sources".
Am I right?

Yes. The source is MIVD director Onno Eichelsheim. Your efforts here are very transparent.

mcmoustache · 04-10-2018 8:51pm

wexie wrote: »

Just checking some of the Dutch newspapers, apparently these 4 poor innocent tourists :rolleyes: were also carrying 20000 euros in cash....as ya do like

https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2018/10/04/mivd-verijdelde-russische-cyberaanval-op-opcw-in-den-haag-a2186350

They could have bought a new laptop with that.

Elmer Blooker · 04-10-2018 8:52pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

The West seems to be upping its propaganda war. Spies be spies.

This latest episode of propaganda will quickly die down and will be dropped by a compliant media within a day or two and this thread will also go very quiet accordingly. (like the Salisbury 'third suspect')
There will be a break for a time before the next episode of anti Russia propaganda is prepared for the masses.

wexie · 04-10-2018 8:55pm

mcmoustache wrote: »

They could have bought a new laptop with that.

that's what I don't get....getting caught is one thing but you'd think they'd perhaps reimage the laptops between operations no? (Ideally use different ones of course) It's just sloppy, there's really no way there should have been any information from any other operations retrievable from that laptop.

Unless perhaps the intelligence services trawled through many many logs and found the MAC address of that particular laptop in those places, but I doubt that because it would be a major operation and I think a lot of network infrastructure simply doesn't log that information for so long.

So either they didn't think they were going to get caught at all (which seems to be the consensus) or they were just sloppy.

mcmoustache · 04-10-2018 9:11pm

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

This latest episode of propaganda will quickly die down and will be dropped by a compliant media within a day or two and this thread will also go very quiet accordingly. (like the Salisbury 'third suspect')
There will be a break for a time before the next episode of anti Russia propaganda is prepared for the masses.

I don't know, dude. The skripal poisoning has been in the news for longer than this thread. I'm not sure what your point is with the third suspect but it changes nothing about what we have already confirmed - two GRU guys went to salisbury to kill a a Russian spy. They were even on Russia Today admitting it which I don't think could possibly be a western propaganda channel.

You can obsess over the third man all you like but it changes nothing.

Two more victims of "unknown substance" in U.K.

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