Brexit discussion thread VII (Please read OP before posting)

Folkstonian wrote: »

Many Europeans are clearly deeply resentful and distrustful of Britain for having kept the European Union’s values and institutions at arm’s length as much is possible. Maybe you don’t subscribe to those view. It’s not uncommon to hear words like ‘arrogance’ and ‘exceptionalism’ however.

I never quite understood why though. Who do these people think they are? How dare they demand absolute compliance and obedience to their project?

Why should Britain, or any country, be viewed so negatively for having reservations to this kind of continental groupthink?

Ah take the train.

Your indignation is not warranted and is a useless sidetrack to the real issue which is the UK's inability to come to a common position on Brexit and negotiate in good faith.

This is all due to the shambles in Westminster and the shocking performance of May.

Folkstonian wrote: »

Many Europeans are clearly deeply resentful and distrustful of Britain for having kept the European Union’s values and institutions at arm’s length as much is possible. Maybe you don’t subscribe to those view. It’s not uncommon to hear words like ‘arrogance’ and ‘exceptionalism’ however.

I never quite understood why though. Who do these people think they are? How dare they demand absolute compliance and obedience to their project?

Why should Britain, or any country, be viewed so negatively for having reservations to this kind of continental groupthink?

Emotive and indignant, my favourite.

The language today was necessarily robust - it is very important to clearly signal to the UK parliament that the WA will not be renegotiated. The time for Unicorns and cake is over. Their move.

J Mysterio wrote: »

Ah take the train.

Your indignation is not warranted and is a useless sidetrack to the real issue which is the UK's inability to come to a common position on Brexit and negotiate in good faith.

This is all due to the shambles in Westminster and the shocking performance of May.

If he's on one of Grayling's trains he'll be late

Much of this project is founded in exceptionalism. And the one thing about exceptionalism is that it is always found out.

Folkstonian wrote: »

Many Europeans are clearly deeply resentful and distrustful of Britain for having kept the European Union’s values and institutions at arm’s length as much is possible. Maybe you don’t subscribe to those view. It’s not uncommon to hear words like ‘arrogance’ and ‘exceptionalism’ however.

I never quite understood why though. Who do these people think they are? How dare they demand absolute compliance and obedience to their project?

Why should Britain, or any country, be viewed so negatively for having reservations to this kind of continental groupthink?

Ye did not give one toss to the hardship ye’re spurious stupid vote was going to cause on this island.

And ye’re argument is stupid ye have freedom ye have sovereignty as much as ever ye will have.

Folkstonian wrote: »

Not indignant. Bemused.

Why do Europeans hop and seethe because some Brits don’t subscribe to a pan-European identity? Are we really that integral to it?

Since you’ve decided to add something that is (arguably) more substantive to your post, if you see that kind of language as necessarily robust then I respectfully disagree. I think it will turn out to be a very counterproductive outburst for which the Taoiseach might not be overly thankful for behind closed doors, despite the handshakes and grinning for the cameras.

I haven't noticed anyone hopping or seething. Tusk, Varadker and Barnier have all been pretty calm and collected but it must be incredibly frustrating trying negotiate with a completely dysfuctional UK government.

Folkstonian wrote: »

Tusk has just compared those who lead the Brexit campaign to people we believe are destined for ‘a special place in hell’ - rapists, murderers, abusers, etc

This is one of the fundamental problems of Brexit.
An inability to quote any statement or fact correctly.
Tusk referred specifically to "those who promoted Brexit without even a sketch of a plan of how to carry it out safely"
He was not referring to those who promoted Brexit and who had a plan, or sketch of one.

How can we take posters seriously if they're either unable or unwilling to quote accurately?

Folkstonian wrote: »

There was a guy earlier today who was clearly irritated that some british cars don’t have an EU flag emblem on the registration plate!

Tusk has just compared those who lead the Brexit campaign to people we believe are destined for ‘a special place in hell’ - rapists, murderers, abusers, etc

I understand that people here are loyal and grateful to Tusk because he has gone into bat for Ireland in the media countless times over the past couple of years - but these comments are as unhelpful, nasty, and divisive as any comparison of the EU to the USSR.

If talks break down entirely at this point, Tusk will not be blameless.

No the posters was not irritated that some British cars don't have the emblem, they were pointing it out as an example of how the UK have always wanted to stay outside the EU. They were one of the biggest members, but very clearly not actively engaged. They saw it as purely one way. Eu should change to adapt to UK, but they won't change anything on their side.

On Tusk, he never mentioned rapist etc, so that is your own take on it. But I would certainly feel, that if there is a hell, then actively lying to effect change that you know will adversely effect large amounts of people in your country is a pretty serious doing. Not on a personal level such as those you listed, but causing such widespread confusion, fear, worry and stress is not a trivial matter. Think of all those that rely on cancer treatment, or daily medications that have for months been listening as the notion of shortages are treated as a simple side effect of Brexit, which will be overcome with a bit of daring-do. Or the workers in Sunderland now fearing for their jobs after doing everything asked of them. Or the pensioners living in Spain now being told they may not be able to stay, or have medical coverage if they do.

All this because they didn't bother to think through their dream. Brexit. The start and end of the position.

If the talks fail, neither side will be entirely blameless, but one side clearly holds the vast majority of the blame. And that blame goes back years to when the MPs failed to inform the public of the positives of the EU, and used it as a punching bag to avoid their own blame.

Folkstonian wrote: »

There was a guy earlier today who was clearly irritated that some british cars don’t have an EU flag emblem on the registration plate!

Tusk has just compared those who lead the Brexit campaign to people we believe are destined for ‘a special place in hell’ - rapists, murderers, abusers, etc

I understand that people here are loyal and grateful to Tusk because he has gone into bat for Ireland in the media countless times over the past couple of years - but these comments are as unhelpful, nasty, and divisive as any comparison of the EU to the USSR.

If talks break down entirely at this point, Tusk will not be blameless.

Two years and eight months since the Referendum.The people to blame for that are the masters of dysfunction in the House Of Commons,not Donald Tusk