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Brexit discussion thread VII (Please read OP before posting)

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    #962
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,203 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Bit cynical wrote: »
    Ireland still wants a deal.

    As reiterated by Varadkar and Coveney (and anyone else from government) we have a deal. That's it. They either sign it or they face a disorderly exit. The political declaration is open for business, as explained many times. Their move.


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    #963
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,087 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Bit cynical wrote: »
    Ireland still wants a deal.

    Yes, but Ireland wants the EU to survive this more.

    Ireland will suffer due to a no-deal Brexit, and the EU will be mildly impacted by it. Therefore a deal of some kind would be good for all concerned. That doesn't mean that you agree to a deal that would harm you even more than no deal would.


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    #964
    10000maniacs
    Registered Users Posts: 4,815 ✭✭✭10000maniacs


    Folkstonian wrote: »

    Tusk has just compared those who lead the Brexit campaign to people we believe are destined for ‘a special place in hell’ - rapists, murderers, abusers, etc

    .


    There are probably many "special places" in Hell, the Brexiters will wander over in the brimstone and fire special place.


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    #965
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,151 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Deleted User wrote: »
    He's not rallying his side. He is telling the other side that games are over, show your plan or bugger off. Don't rip up our agreement and expect us to cave

    I'm 100% behind Tusk on this one. He's had it up to here with the hard Brexiteers. There's only a few weeks to go to the exit and there's not the slightest hint of compromise or budging. He may as well call the fraudsters out now, he has nothing to lose.


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    #966
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I would absolute love if he came out and said he regretted the court's decision that Brexit was reversible. How would everyone who claims the EU is making it difficult to leave on purpose respond to that?


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    #967
    fl4reixb6wyvkm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2 ✭fl4reixb6wyvkm


    Can you recommend a report or link to a pdf that dives into deep detail on the split between voters of both leave and remain and an analysis of their motivations?


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    #968
    dfx-
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,665 Mod ✭✭✭✭dfx-


    Tusk's comment is very humorous in that you can see how it's going to dominate the narrative for a couple of days. It's much easier to 'debate' it than navigate the nebulous alternative arrangements and May's speech yesterday. I'm sure there's a Question Time klaxon gone off - they'll talk about anything but the Northern Ireland complications.

    It's probably the only time the Brexiteers are going to listen to anything he says and then twist it and misquote it anyway.


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    #969
    demfad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,182 ✭✭✭demfad


    Iker Slimy Partridge wrote: »
    Can you recommend a report or link to a pdf that dives into deep detail on the split between voters of both leave and remain and an analysis of their motivations?

    For the motivations of current everyday no-deal voters a delve into the massive disinformation campaign ongoing right now is needed.

    It is echoing back and forth between certain politicians and the internet.

    Not being tongue in cheek. That's the truth.


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    #970
    AtomicHorror
    Registered Users Posts: 5,888 ✭✭✭AtomicHorror


    Folkstonian wrote: »
    Tusk has just compared those who lead the Brexit campaign to people we believe are destined for ‘a special place in hell’ - rapists, murderers, abusers, etc

    It's a turn of phrase and frequently used as hyperbole as much for mundane offences as serious ones. I've heard people say it of those who break wind in an elevator. There's an eagerness to be offended by this which is painfully transparent.

    That being said, the recklessness of those who promoted Brexit will cause great hardship to large numbers of people across Ireland, the UK and Europe. Perhaps even globally. It's not cold-blooded murder, but it is certainly negligent harm on an grand scale. More comparable to presiding over a huge industrial accident, or incompetent handling of the response to a natural disaster.
    For Forks Sake wrote: »
    Sammy Wilson with a typically measured response...

    https://twitter.com/eastantrimmp/status/1093126875524878336?s=19

    The replies are mostly roasting Sammy for his spin. That's something, I guess.


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    #971
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,041 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    lawred2 wrote: »
    trident wielding!? :D

    It's funny but I don't quite know what Sammy thinks it means...
    That's the problem - Sammy doesn't think!
    Bit cynical wrote: »
    Ireland still wants a deal.
    True. We want the deal that was agreed.
    The UK on the other hand has no idea what it wants :rolleyes:


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    #972
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,041 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    AlmightyCushion wrote: »
    All those tweets from Tusk are just bluster. FAKE NEWS. Like the brexiters predict, the EU are gonna throw us under the bus and cave on the back stop any minute now.

    *Looks at watch*

    Yeah, any minute now. :pac:
    Please sit down.
    You're in for a long wait. :D


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    #973
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,203 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I hate the idea of it but yeah. I really hope it was bluster, from Leo, about there being no planning around a "No Deal" because it is now time to begin to implement such a plan

    Ireland have been contingency planning for over a year. The EU will not be caught on the hop and will assist where needed. We'll be as ready as we can be.


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    #974
    Bit cynical
    Registered Users Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭Bit cynical


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    As reiterated by Varadkar and Coveney (and anyone else from government) we have a deal. That's it. They either sign it or they face a disorderly exit. The political declaration is open for business, as explained many times. Their move.
    Well that is the political rhetoric. We don't have a deal, unfortunately, in the sense of something that we can hold the UK to (and vice versa). There are no mutual obligations in force.


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    #975
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,167 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Why an extension if requested won't be a dead cert to be granted.
    https://www.cer.eu/insights/can-uk-extend-brexit-deadline
    There is growing frustration with the British political class on the continent. EU officials and European politicians have long seen Brexit as an unwelcome distraction from other pressing challenges; instead of working out how to hold back the populist tide in the upcoming European Parliament elections, they have been forced to spend time reacting to the latest twists and turns in the Brexit saga. In fact, some flinch at the thought of the UK hanging around in the EU for even a little bit longer than planned. After two years of Brexit wrangling, the UK’s positive contributions to the European project, such as its support for the single market and enlargement, are fading into history.


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    #976
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,360 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Bit cynical wrote: »
    Well that is the political rhetoric. We don't have a deal, unfortunately, in the sense of something that we can hold the UK to (and vice versa). There are no mutual obligations in force.

    Actually there is a deal that the UK and the EU agreed on and called it a Working Agreement. This is the deal on which the UK is currently reneging.


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    #977
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,742 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Bit cynical wrote: »
    Well that is the political rhetoric. We don't have a deal, unfortunately, in the sense of something that we can hold the UK to (and vice versa). There are no mutual obligations in force.


    There absolutely are mutual obligations in force, the EU and UK signed a basic agreement or "deal" on the backstop in December 2017.


    Your attempts to rewrite history are failing massively.


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    #978
    Christy42
    Registered Users Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Bit cynical wrote: »
    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    As reiterated by Varadkar and Coveney (and anyone else from government) we have a deal. That's it. They either sign it or they face a disorderly exit. The political declaration is open for business, as explained many times. Their move.
    Well that is the political rhetoric. We don't have a deal, unfortunately, in the sense of something that we can hold the UK to (and vice versa). There are no mutual obligations in force.
    Again. We can't exactly force the UK to sign an agreement. We have no idea what would be acceptable to them and their protests around the current one is with the soft border. Since we want the soft border as part of any agreement we can't concede any ground and still get anything we want.


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    #979
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    VinLieger wrote: »
    There absolutely are mutual obligations in force, the EU and UK signed a basic agreement or "deal" on the backstop in December 2017.


    Well, no, the UK are in no way obliged to sign that deal.


    But they can whistle for any other deal - it's that or nothing, and they can't leave with nothing.


    Or they could, in theory, not leave at all, but Tusk's remarks seem to indicate that the EU side have given up hope on that.


    But then, of course, he might just be saying "It's too late, the UK can't decide to stay" simply because the UK will take offense and do the opposite of what he says. :D


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    #980
    Imreoir2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭Imreoir2


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    That's the problem - Sammy doesn't think!


    True. We want the deal that was agreed.
    The UK on the other hand has no idea what it wants :rolleyes:

    I suspect he recently went to see Aquaman.

    Clearly we are on a straight road to no-deal at this point, the UK can avert this if they want but it s looking less and less likely. Perhaps comments like Tusks today will provoke a little backbone amongst the sensible members of the HoC, perhaps not, but it's no-deal unless they get up and do something.


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    #981
    breatheme
    Registered Users Posts: 375 ✭✭breatheme


    The UK can either rescind Article 50, accept the deal on the table or crash out.


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    #982
    PropJoe10
    Registered Users Posts: 5,256 ✭✭✭PropJoe10


    You can see what Tusk is trying to do here, but it looks like it's only going to entrench the hardline Brexiteers even more. Looks like a no deal situation is inevitable at this stage. It's getting messier and messier by the day!


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    #983
    Irishmale0399
    Registered Users Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭Irishmale0399


    breatheme wrote: »
    The UK can either rescind Article 50, accept the deal on the table or crash out.


    The question is when will the EU say enough is enough. Too little too late from the UK


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    #984
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    They can not get more entrenched, it can make the others wake up to the fact that they are walking on a knife edge at the moment


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    #985
    Bit cynical
    Registered Users Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭Bit cynical


    breatheme wrote: »
    The UK can either rescind Article 50, accept the deal on the table or crash out.
    The first two of these options would be good from Ireland's perspective.


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    #986
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Irishmale0399 wrote: »
    The question is when will the EU say enough is enough. Too little too late from the UK

    I think that they just did say that.


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    #987
    Irishmale0399
    Registered Users Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭Irishmale0399


    Bit cynical wrote: »
    The first two of these options would be good from Ireland's perspective.


    I am not sure there is a way back for relations between Ireland and the UK. The UK lads seem very bitter....never forget stuff. At this point I personally think they have to crash out and be in a position that they need us for a while instead of having the feeling that they won and rubbing our noses in it.


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    #988
    Folkstonian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 421 ✭✭Folkstonian


    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/02/tusk-selmayr-and-the-eus-twitter-diplomacy/

    An interesting article from Fraser Nelson of the Spectator today in light of the twitter (un)diplomacy we are witnessing more and more from Trump and the EU.

    I hope people read it even if they have a distrust for the Spectator as a publication as it definitely makes some compelling points about the use of twitter not just to spread key messages, but also to engage in ‘trolling’

    I think it’s unwise and unhelpful. The ‘one-upmanship’ strategy of the EU on social media leaves a bitter taste in the mouth for me with stunts like the sneaky ‘no cherry picking’ Snapchat ambush on Theresa May.

    But that’s just a personal opinion obviously, it just seems unnecessarily sneaky

    Do people mind that the likes of Selmayr and Sabine Weyand, as unelected civil servants, are manoeuvring themselves into being social media champions of the European Union almost, or is it simply the new normal for international diplomacy?


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    #989
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,742 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Whats hilarious about the whole thing is how much they seem to think this is all being done in a vacuum.


    The rest of the world is watching them royally screw this up as well as how much they have been acting in bad faith. Every other country they plan on getting trade deals with is thinking two things right now, 1 they can't be trusted to follow through on anything they say and 2 they couldn't negotiate their way out of a paper bag.



    Just look at the rumblings already coming from the states saying how their watching the **** they are pulling and their actions will have consequences in any future deals.


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    #990
    ilovesmybrick
    Registered Users Posts: 1,128 ✭✭✭ilovesmybrick


    From The Guardian live blog
    Q: Do you agree with what Donald Tusk said?

    Juncker says he believes in heaven. He has never seen hell, apart from when he is doing his job here.

    Sounds like an agreement to me, though phrased slightly more diplomatically.


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    #991
    Imreoir2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭Imreoir2


    Folkstonian wrote: »
    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/02/tusk-selmayr-and-the-eus-twitter-diplomacy/

    An interesting article from Fraser Nelson of the Spectator today in light of the twitter (un)diplomacy we are witnessing more and more from Trump and the EU.

    I hope people read it even if they have a distrust for the Spectator as a publication as it definitely makes some compelling points about the use of twitter not just to spread key messages, but also to engage in ‘trolling’

    I think it’s unwise and unhelpful. The ‘one-upmanship’ strategy of the EU on social media leaves a bitter taste in the mouth for me with stunts like the sneaky ‘no cherry picking’ Snapchat ambush on Theresa May.

    But that’s just a personal opinion obviously, it just seems unnecessarily sneaky

    Do people mind that the likes of Selmayr and Sabine Weyand, as unelected civil servants, are manoeuvring themselves into being social media champions of the European Union almost, or is it simply the new normal for international diplomacy?

    I for one had not heard much about Selmayr until yesterday, as for Sabine Weyand, anything I see on her is that her speaking publiclly on Brexit is very unusual. I don't think it is in any way accurate to suggest that either of them are engaged in a social media championship.


This discussion has been closed.
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