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Physical Media Not Dead Says New HMV Owner.

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13

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    #62
    9935452
    Registered Users Posts: 2,750 ✭✭✭9935452


    murpho999 wrote: »
    9935452 wrote: »
    What would you consider a good internet connection. ?
    Unless you live in a city or big town you will struggle .
    Im 2 miles outside a big town. My phone line wont support broadband.
    The parents are 3 miles on the other side of the town and have a 3mb connection.
    A friend a few miles out of a city had to get wireless bb cause there was nothing else. Paying 50 euro a month for 3mb at best.
    Another friend living inside a town is getting 9mb.
    I can go on and on.

    You're not giving any locations.

    Fact is the large urban centres where most people live have good broadband.

    I would consider receiving 100mb to be good.

    Majority of people around cities, which is where the majority of people in live, have access to this.

    Limerick is the location . Newcastle west to be more pricise.

    To be fair 35to 45 % of the population live in rural locations

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwj8vLjakqjgAhWGalAKHaE8A1wQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/ireland-s-population-one-of-most-rural-in-european-union-1.2667855&psig=AOvVaw3J_o6BEqX1vVw6o3l_5SZo&ust=1549578182957786


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    #63
    9935452
    Registered Users Posts: 2,750 ✭✭✭9935452


    murpho999 wrote: »
    9935452 wrote: »
    What would you consider a good internet connection. ?
    Unless you live in a city or big town you will struggle .
    Im 2 miles outside a big town. My phone line wont support broadband.
    The parents are 3 miles on the other side of the town and have a 3mb connection.
    A friend a few miles out of a city had to get wireless bb cause there was nothing else. Paying 50 euro a month for 3mb at best.
    Another friend living inside a town is getting 9mb.
    I can go on and on.

    You're not giving any locations.

    Fact is the large urban centres where most people live have good broadband.

    I would consider receiving 100mb to be good.

    Majority of people around cities, which is where the majority of people in live, have access to this.

    Limerick is the location . Newcastle west to be more pricise.

    To be fair 35to 45 % of the population live in rural locations

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwj8vLjakqjgAhWGalAKHaE8A1wQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/ireland-s-population-one-of-most-rural-in-european-union-1.2667855&psig=AOvVaw3J_o6BEqX1vVw6o3l_5SZo&ust=1549578182957786


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    #64
    Fysh
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 11,016 Mod ✭✭✭✭Fysh


    n!ghtmancometh wrote: »
    I have a nook e-reader that I bought about 8 years ago still going strong, that I use for travelling and commuting reading. The books I own on that device are not stored in the cloud, but on the device local memory or SD cards. I still buy physical books (mainly second hand) from the wonderful Chapters and a few other book shops.

    I still love the look of books on a shelf. I can't say the same thing about plastic DVD/Blu Ray boxes or CD cases cluttering up the place. Will always be a market for physical books, but I think once most homes have access to usable broadband services, demand for physical copies of movies and music will drop even more than it has.

    This is bordering on OT for the thread, but - the ebook equivalent of ripping your discs can be achieved by combining a tool called Calibre. Look for "apprentice alf" and calibre on your preferred search engine.

    Drm free epubs are handy, but the book publishing industry is even worse than the film industry for DRM - in particular they can go and [insert rude phrase of choice here] over their insistence on forcing libraries to renew ebook licences at the same rate as they would typically replace physical hardback copies...


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    #65
    Arghus
    Registered Users Posts: 14,357 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    Maybe physical media isn't totally dead, but it's sure not in rude health and I can't see much of a future for stores that base their business around it.

    I was one of those types who loved searching through the aisles for albums to buy and I was pretty devastated when the local HMV closed - twice - and again last year when a new independent record store opened up in town: only to close abruptly six months later. I had a collection of hundreds of albums that had been amassed over the years. And I loved owning those albums - it was great to have a proper collection, which I lugged faithfully around with me every time I moved apartment or house.

    But the last time I moved I didn't bring the whole lot - I left it at my parents and said I'd get back to it at some stage. But as time went on I didn't. It stayed put and I stayed streaming. These days 99% of what I listen to is through streaming, which I wouldn't have imagined even 18 months ago. I considered myself a bit of stickler for audio quality and I enjoyed what a physical copy of an album sounded like played through a good sound system, rather than just an mp3 equivalent. But with audio services like Tidal to choose from now, it's possible to get high-quality streamed audio without having to fork out for albums - as things stand I can't picture myself going back.

    I do miss the feeling of owning music: these days it does feel like it just passes through my life: no matter how many times I listen to something through streaming, I never feel like I own it. Which was something that made me feel a certain deeper connection to the music sometimes... but that's getting into the realm of the nearly metaphysical. I loved shopping for and buying music, but I can forego that with there being services out there now that offer me what I want for a lot less. And I used to buy more than most. I'm skeptical if long-term the current vogue for vinyl is going to grow indefinitely - as it is, it's often a bit of a money racket of charging people sky-high prices for "re-issues" and the like.

    I don't think I've bought a DVD since around 2013. I watch a lot of movies, but I was never that fussy about how they got to me. Once I started downloading and streaming that was it; the days of buying physical copies were more or less over. I understand that there's still a - increasingly specialist - demand for blu-rays etc and maybe that'll keep things ticking over in some sectors, but I think by and large owning physical copies of movies and albums is gone the way of the dodo and any business hoping to hold back the tide is on a hiding to nothing. Most people under the age of thirty wouldn't even consider buying physical copies of things - and that's an awful lot of potential customers that'll be hard to entice back.

    I still buy books - but these days they are about the only form of physical media I still buy. And it must be said that damn all people around me seem to read these days either!


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    #66
    murpho999
    Registered Users Posts: 28,410 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    Deleted User wrote: »
    That map has my address as complete for high speed
    I have 10Mb......
    Gravelly wrote: »
    It's very optimistic about my place too!
    9935452 wrote: »
    Limerick is the location . Newcastle west to be more pricise.

    To be fair 35to 45 % of the population live in rural locations

    The point I'm trying to make is that the future of Physical Media is bleak.

    Broadband that is poor in some areas now will be better in the future and will certainly be good enough to surpass any disk capacity.

    So the niche people who want to carry on buying discs will continue to do so but the group will get smaller and smaller.


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    #67
    9935452
    Registered Users Posts: 2,750 ✭✭✭9935452


    murpho999 wrote: »
    Deleted User wrote: »
    That map has my address as complete for high speed
    I have 10Mb......
    Gravelly wrote: »
    It's very optimistic about my place too!
    9935452 wrote: »
    Limerick is the location . Newcastle west to be more pricise.

    To be fair 35to 45 % of the population live in rural locations

    The point I'm trying to make is that the future of Physical Media is bleak.

    Broadband that is poor in some areas now will be better in the future and will certainly be good enough to surpass any disk capacity.

    So the niche people who want to carry on buying discs will continue to do so but the group will get smaller and smaller.

    I do actually agree that physical media is dying . The demise of extra vision confirms this. .

    Broadband will eventually get faster.

    An interesting fact . The average broadband connection in ireland is 18 mb.


    Another interesting article even though its 2 years old
    https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiZo8CoqangAhW9SxUIHbksDLQQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https://www.thejournal.ie/broadband-speeds-ireland-3082026-Nov2016/&psig=AOvVaw0mEpK4apDTJnbT1AVAu9JB&ust=1549618611983890


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    #68
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    9935452 wrote: »
    I do actually agree that physical media is dying . The demise of extra vision confirms this. .

    Broadband will eventually get faster.

    An interesting fact . The average broadband connection in ireland is 18 mb.


    Another interesting article even though its 2 years old
    https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiZo8CoqangAhW9SxUIHbksDLQQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thejournal.ie%2Fbroadband-speeds-ireland-3082026-Nov2016%2F&psig=AOvVaw0mEpK4apDTJnbT1AVAu9JB&ust=1549618611983890

    Of course physical media will die out but Ireland (and more importantly) and VAST stretches of America have substandard broadband which can not handle 4K (and I mean real 4K whenever I refer to streaming rates).

    That is not going to change in the next 5+ years. This should really be the final iteration of physical but there is still a demand for it in the short-medium term.

    The point that I (and others) are making is that currently there are plenty of people to fill a market for physical media, if they would just cop the feck on with pricing of the disc.
    Players are under €150 but new releases are minimum of €30 and generally far higher. That is what is prematurely killing the format.

    HMV though? No chance in a prime location as JUST a media store.


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    #69
    Relikk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭Relikk


    murpho999 wrote: »
    Why?
    What if the future digital was better quality then any physical media?

    Physical media can get lost or damaged. Digital can always be associated to your account and downloaded again.

    For the exact reason of what was said below you, rights and licensing issues. Something you've bought on a specific platform may not be there in a few years because someone else has bought the rights and decided not to allow the original platform to host it anymore. The same with video games. Balls to that. If I have a physical copy I can watch, listen or play anytime I want, now and in the future when their respective online services are discontinued.


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    #70
    adox
    Registered Users Posts: 19,017 ✭✭✭✭adox


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I have spent far too much on a good screen and sound system to bother with digital, for tentpole shows.
    Also very hard to find good quality older films and I am no purist.
    Just waste of money having good equipment and sending a substandard content through it

    The quality of streaming services compared to physical discs while on paper may seem a mile apart, arent very far apart at all in the real world on a large tv.

    Apple especially are outputting some excellent 4K content for a streaming service.

    Maybe if you are using a projector and larger screen the need for physical discs for PQ woule be more apparent.


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    #71
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 18,942 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    ^

    The vast majority of people don't care about 4K. In fact, they aren't even aware of it, or probably don't know what it means. They are happy with convenience of streaming a show or film over the likes of Netflix, which will normally have what they're looking for anyway. And without a side-by-side comparison, they couldn't tell the difference between a 720p image and a 2160p one.

    I love the clarity that a high definition image brings to my screen, but even I don't really care about 4K, to be honest. It just doesn't float my boat.

    Sure, even amongst the physical media buying public, DVD still outsells Blu-Ray in terms of discs sold to the average consumer, because they don't care or don't know about the advantages of the higher definition disk.

    And that's the problem with all of these specialist markets, like vinyl and 4K movies and whatnot. They'll only appeal to a tiny, tiny, amount of people and that's not enough for a brick and mortar shop to survive, especially in this day and age where high street rents for property are so utterly ridiculous <- a problem no one ever mentions in these types of discussions.

    The simple fact is that the vast majority of people have no care or want for anything, except seeing a show or a movie they want to watch, in a relatively clean image, or listening to a collection of random songs...and streaming provides that. Eventually, everything will go this way, it's sad to say.

    There might be an even tinier niche market than there is now for the likes of Arrow or Scream Factory to cater for folk who want to collect every shitty B movie horror ever made. But even they'll run out of customers, eventually, when they release every genre film in various editions. In fact, the double dipping that goes on is already kinda silly.


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    #72
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    The fracturing of streaming services is going to give physical media a bit of a boost. Legitimate streaming was a silver bullet for piracy but as per usual the media companies got greedy. Streaming is going to become the new TV and radio, grand for casual browsing but useless for the content that you always come back to.


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    #73
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Stores are flooded with DVDs for some reason. Cheap stock to carry maybe. Very few BR around. You can't buy what you can't get.

    When you do find BR they are too expensive. But I hunt for bargains and buy my favourite classic movies when I can.

    Most people can't care about quality. Pity but its true. Most people will listen or watch pretty dire quality. They are not getting the media as it was intended to watched/heard.

    Targeting niche markets is a good model as long as you don't expand beyond what the market can sustain.


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    #74
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Bambi wrote: »
    The fracturing of streaming services is going to give physical media a bit of a boost. Legitimate streaming was a silver bullet for piracy but as per usual the media companies got greedy. Streaming is going to become the new TV and radio, grand for casual browsing but useless for the content that you always come back to.

    Piracy is going to flourish again, to be honest. I know it never went away but there was a viable alternative which people bought into.

    If this means a boost to physical media? Who knows but I am still happy to have my disc for my favourite films (and my most enjoyable spectacle films too).


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    #75
    adox
    Registered Users Posts: 19,017 ✭✭✭✭adox


    adox wrote: »
    The quality of streaming services compared to physical discs while on paper may seem a mile apart, arent very far apart at all in the real world on a large tv.

    Apple especially are outputting some excellent 4K content for a streaming service.

    Maybe if you are using a projector and larger screen the need for physical discs for PQ woule be more apparent.

    Just to follow this up heres a comparison from a very reputable calibrator:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbKCZpQN72c


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    #76
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,941 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Tony EH wrote: »
    ^

    The vast majority of people don't care about 4K. In fact, they aren't even aware of it, or probably don't know what it means. They are happy with convenience of streaming a show or film over the likes of Netflix, which will normally have what they're looking for anyway. And without a side-by-side comparison, they couldn't tell the difference between a 720p image and a 2160p one.

    I'm inclined to agree: sure, those of a certain technical proficiency will probably claim that they'd pick 1080p from 4K, but like you said I doubt the average punter could tell, or indeed care.

    And therein perhaps lies the insurmountable plateau of technology companies have hit: if you the chart home TV experience over the last 30+ years, the technological leaps could be pretty huge: the jump from VHS to DVD alone was (for want of a better word) revolutionary and for a whole host of reasons was a sea-shift in the quality and quantity of presentation to the consumer. Not least of which the picture wasn't total crap anymore.

    These days, DVD, BluRay => 4k just doesn't possess that same enticement and there's only so much fidelity you can bring to a picture before it's quibbling over degrees of detail. Indeed I believe it accounts for why we're seeing so many gimmicks in this space - from 3D TVs, to curved screens, to VR - because the selling points just don't cut it anymore.


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    #77
    Technocentral
    Registered Users Posts: 6,101 ✭✭✭Technocentral


    pixelburp wrote: »
    I'm inclined to agree: sure, those of a certain technical proficiency will probably claim that they'd pick 1080p from 4K, but like you said I doubt the average punter could tell, or indeed care.

    And therein perhaps lies the insurmountable plateau of technology companies have hit: if you the chart home TV experience over the last 30+ years, the technological leaps could be pretty huge: the jump from VHS to DVD alone was (for want of a better word) revolutionary and for a whole host of reasons was a sea-shift in the quality and quantity of presentation to the consumer. Not least of which the picture wasn't total crap anymore.

    These days, DVD, BluRay => 4k just doesn't possess that same enticement and there's only so much fidelity you can bring to a picture before it's quibbling over degrees of detail. Indeed I believe it accounts for why we're seeing so many gimmicks in this space - from 3D TVs, to curved screens, to VR - because the selling points just don't cut it anymore.


    A lot of people will watch highly compressed illegal streams in the wrong aspect ratio and be happy. :rolleyes:


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    #78
    branie2
    Registered Users Posts: 10,292 ✭✭✭✭branie2


    Since there's a new owner of HMV, could this be a hopeful sign that that the company could come back to Ireland?


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    #79
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,941 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    branie2 wrote: »
    Since there's a new owner of HMV, could this be a hopeful sign that that the company could come back to Ireland?
    Probably depends on what the economic landscape looks like post March 31st.


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    #80
    Jerichoholic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,585 ✭✭✭Jerichoholic


    Technocentral wrote: »
    A lot of people will watch highly compressed illegal streams in the wrong aspect ratio and be happy. :rolleyes:

    And some will watch perfectly good streams too.


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    #81
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,941 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Technocentral wrote: »
    A lot of people will watch highly compressed illegal streams in the wrong aspect ratio and be happy. :rolleyes:

    I had a work colleague who point blank refused to spend his money on cinema tickets or DVDs, and was instead 'happy' to watch 'CamRip's (camcorder recordings to those not in the know) of various new releases. He couldn't be persuaded and didn't really get what the problem was.

    Nothing will crease and burn the soul of a film-lover more than being told said colleague watched a CamRip of Gravity on his laptop :(


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    #82
    tigger123
    Registered Users Posts: 4,444 ✭✭✭tigger123


    pixelburp wrote: »
    I had a work colleague who point blank refused to spend his money on cinema tickets or DVDs, and was instead 'happy' to watch 'CamRip's (camcorder recordings to those not in the know) of various new releases. He couldn't be persuaded and didn't really get what the problem was.

    Nothing will crease and burn the soul of a film-lover more than being told said colleague watched a CamRip of Gravity on his laptop :(

    I know someone who watched Gravity on a flight and thought it was ****.

    I also know someone who watched Under The Skin on a flight and thought it was boring.


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    #83
    karaokeman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭karaokeman


    Technocentral wrote: »
    Yeah they are still good but the Dawson St one was great when they had that cafe upstairs, I used to go for lunch then browse the vinyl/blu ray sections, was always pretty full, wonder why they closed.

    Dawson street branch has been open for a while. The one on Wicklow street has been closed for years though.
    branie2 wrote: »
    Since there's a new owner of HMV, could this be a hopeful sign that that the company could come back to Ireland?

    I'd love HMV to make a comeback here. There's some niche genres like anime that Tower Records and Golden Discs don't currently stock that can still be found in UK HMVs. I'd certainly be excited to see Dragon Ball back on shelves of brick and mortar stores in Dublin. I own them all but its still nice to see them available for everyone while browsing a store. Looking online doesn't give me the same feeling. Hopefully they will keep the prices right, especially for Blu-Rays.


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    #84
    Technocentral
    Registered Users Posts: 6,101 ✭✭✭Technocentral


    karaokeman wrote: »
    Technocentral wrote: »
    Yeah they are still good but the Dawson St one was great when they had that cafe upstairs, I used to go for lunch then browse the vinyl/blu ray sections, was always pretty full, wonder why they closed.

    Dawson street branch has been open for a while. The one on Wicklow street has been closed for years though.
    branie2 wrote: »
    Since there's a new owner of HMV, could this be a hopeful sign that that the company could come back to Ireland?

    I'd love HMV to make a comeback here. There's some niche genres like anime that Tower Records and Golden Discs don't currently stock that can still be found in UK HMVs. I'd certainly be excited to see Dragon Ball back on shelves of brick and mortar stores in Dublin. I own them all but its still nice to see them available for everyone while browsing a store. Looking online doesn't give me the same feeling. Hopefully they will keep the prices right, especially for Blu-Rays.

    Hi sorry, meant why the cafe closed.


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    #85
    Liam McPoyle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,846 ✭✭✭✭Liam McPoyle


    Physical media will never die but it will eventually leave the high street. Companies like Arrow, Blue Underground, Severin and Scream Factory are releasing upgraded versions of oft released movies and in order to get people to double or triple dip they have to up their game in terms of content and packaging. Scream Factory for example just announced a new release of Night of the Creeps, a cheesey but very fun mid 80s horror. It has had a number of different releases from various companies so to make it stand out, they are packaging it with slip cases, a poster and a Tom Atkins figurine.

    51783636_1416935338443473_4547305794395176960_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_ht=scontent-dub4-1.xx&oh=640714d4fc52e6a58a883241381c14b7&oe=5CE03642

    Its a golden (albeit expensive) time for a collector of horror movies and the second hand market is absolutely booming. Im in a few groups for collectors on FB and stuff on there or on Ebay regularly changes hands for multiples of what it originally retailed for.


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    #86
    Loughc
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 24,750 Mod ✭✭✭✭Loughc


    pixelburp wrote: »
    Probably depends on what the economic landscape looks like post March 31st.

    Outlook not so good!

    I don't see how HMV stores these days is a viable business... when I moved house, I literally couldn't give away my DVD collection...

    Most people either don't have DVD Players anymore or don't want to waste space on them.


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    #87
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Ireland has no city big enough for a HMV to be honest.


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    #88
    Technocentral
    Registered Users Posts: 6,101 ✭✭✭Technocentral


    Loughc wrote: »
    pixelburp wrote: »
    Probably depends on what the economic landscape looks like post March 31st.

    Outlook not so good!

    I don't see how HMV stores these days is a viable business... when I moved house, I literally couldn't give away my DVD collection...

    Most people either don't have DVD Players anymore or don't want to waste space on them.

    Relying on vinyl more so.


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    #89
    Technocentral
    Registered Users Posts: 6,101 ✭✭✭Technocentral


    See below.


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    #90
    Technocentral
    Registered Users Posts: 6,101 ✭✭✭Technocentral


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Ireland has no city big enough for a HMV to be honest.

    Tower in Dublin doing ok especally Dawson Street.


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    #91
    branie2
    Registered Users Posts: 10,292 ✭✭✭✭branie2


    I've been in the O'Connell Street Tower Records a good few times, the one above Easons.


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