Brexit discussion thread VII (Please read OP before posting)

Leroy42 · 10-02-2019 10:30pm

Thats the type of thinking that has got the UK into the mess. Surrender?

Who the hell are the UK fighting? The EU was working well for them. They have created an oppressor so that they can feel oppressed. When in fact they weren't oppressed.

Oppression is what the UK did to countries like Ireland, India, hell half the world. How can they be oprressed when they had opt outs on the biggest decisions. Euro, Shenghen, they wouldn't even move to the metric system.

Some oppression!

Anthracite · 10-02-2019 10:31pm

downcow wrote: »

I think the hardest thing to lose would be my beloved football team NI

Easy solution for that. Fold the FAI and put the IFA in charge. They are doing a much better job anyway.

4068ac1elhodqr · 10-02-2019 10:35pm

One chap that actually caused Brexit is the one person of power trying now to stop it.

(Mr.Blair) was an advocate for open borders, free flow of folks across Europe.
Guess the daily pictures and stories of folks leaping in the back of HGV's at Calais simply took it's toll.

To be fair underfunded and ineffective border controls in the UK, mass migration, garden shed building, crime levels etc
- they all have an effect on a nation, just as Italy/Denmark/Sweden etc.

4068ac1elhodqr · 10-02-2019 10:38pm

Anthracite wrote: »

Easy solution for that. Fold the FAI and put the IFA in charge. They are doing a much better job anyway.

But maybe put the idea of anyone (jointly) winning any major silverware off for a few decades, even if the next young GeorgeBest is found.

CelticRambler · 10-02-2019 10:38pm

downcow wrote: »

New flag. Orange culture and bands being as accepted as Irish language and the gaa and equal funding pro rata.

Emmmm. What's wrong with the current flag, that gives equal status to Orange and Green? That's no accident, you know - the Irish tricolour is the flag of all-Ireland: green for the Fenians, Orange for you lot, and white to symbolise peace between the two.

And I reckon Discover Ireland would soon have the Marching Season topping their list of activities for tourists coming in July ... if you'd only let us help. :cool:

mickoneill31 · 10-02-2019 10:41pm

Joanna Better Hairpiece wrote: »

One chap that actually caused Brexit is the one person of power trying now to stop it.

(Mr.Blair) was an advocate for open borders, free flow of folks across Europe.
Guess the daily pictures and stories of folks leaping in the back of HGV's at Calais simply took it's toll.

To be fair underfunded and ineffective border controls in the UK, mass migration, garden shed building, crime levels etc
- they all have an effect on a nation, just as Italy/Denmark/Sweden etc.

If the borders are so open why were those people hiding in HGVs in Calais?

judeboy101 · 10-02-2019 10:44pm

CelticRambler wrote: »

Emmmm. What's wrong with the current flag, that gives equal status to Orange and Green? That's no accident, you know - the Irish tricolour is the flag of all-Ireland: green for the Fenians, Orange for you lot, and white to symbolise peace between the two.

And I reckon Discover Ireland would soon have the Marching Season topping their list of activities for tourists coming in July ... if you'd only let us help. :cool:

Green flag with a golden harp, the tricolour highlights our differences, the original flag of the republic doesn't.

4068ac1elhodqr · 10-02-2019 10:45pm

mickoneill31 wrote: »

If the borders are so open why were those people hiding in HGVs in Calais?

They 'might' have got 'slightly lost' during their 'informal' travels across multiple 'safe' countries between Afgan/Sudan/Eritrea/Iran/Congo/Ticheekystan or wherever, and the Eng Channel.

CelticRambler · 10-02-2019 10:47pm

Joanna Better Hairpiece wrote: »

Guess the daily pictures and stories of folks leaping in the back of HGV's at Calais simply took it's toll.

Have you thought that through? Non-Europeans with no right to be in the EU, leaping in the back of HGVs to get across a hard border (the kind that, apparently, Brexiteers don't want) is somehow a justification for leaving the EU, even though there are plenty of controls (including ID checks, advance passenger information declarations, and time-limits on residency) for EU migrants.

Sounds like you've been drinking as much Koolaid as the most fanatical Brexiteer. :rolleyes:

Junkyard Tom · 10-02-2019 10:47pm

alloywheel wrote: »

The British were always a trading country with the rest of the world, that is how they controlled a quarter of the world at one stage, they like trading with the world.

'Trade' being a euphemism for gun-point colonialism, slavery, and resource-stripping.

For the first time in centuries the British, with one third of the exports of Germany, will be making trade deals without pointing guns, and threatening blockades, in a world of more powerful trading blocs.

Best of luck to them, they're going to need it.

prawnsambo · 10-02-2019 10:50pm

Anthracite wrote: »

Easy solution for that. Fold the FAI and put the IFA in charge. They are doing a much better job anyway.

Oh yes please. Sign me up for that.

Another brexit bonus. They just keep rolling in. The serious point being that it's not necessarily a one way street. And it leads to the conclusion that NI would be much bigger fish with Ireland than it is with GB.

4068ac1elhodqr · 10-02-2019 10:50pm

CelticRambler wrote: »

And I reckon Discover Ireland would soon have the Marching Season topping their list of activities for tourists coming in July ... if you'd only let us help. :cool:

Tourism Ireland is alredy cross-border, but marching does need 'blinged up' a bit, maybe more bass? - to create drum 'n bass, like Notting Hill Carnival. Oh and hot spice jerky sauces at the bbqs stalls.

judeboy101 wrote: »

Green flag with a golden harp, the tricolour highlights our differences, the original flag of the republic doesn't.

Change it to a 'pint of Harp', job done. (Awful drink btw) think it's popular on the North coast.

CelticRambler · 10-02-2019 10:50pm

judeboy101 wrote: »

Green flag with a golden harp, the tricolour highlights our differences, the original flag of the republic doesn't.

Fair point - but there are some people "up north" who have a thing about Irish symbols, like green, and probably harps and shamrocks too ... And besides, it seems like they want their differences to be highlighted.

gooch2k9 · 10-02-2019 10:52pm

CelticRambler wrote: »

Emmmm. What's wrong with the current flag, that gives equal status to Orange and Green? That's no accident, you know - the Irish tricolour is the flag of all-Ireland: green for the Fenians, Orange for you lot, and white to symbolise peace between the two.

And I reckon Discover Ireland would soon have the Marching Season topping their list of activities for tourists coming in July ... if you'd only let us help. :cool:

Myself and a unionist fellow at work had a similar discussion last week, concerning the Irish language. The conclusion was unionists couldn't/wouldn't compromise on it as it is a weapon of Sinn Féin. I'd imagine the argument would be the same regarding the flag.

4068ac1elhodqr · 10-02-2019 10:56pm

CelticRambler wrote: »

Have you thought that through? Non-Europeans with no right to be in the EU, leaping in the back of HGVs to get across a hard border (the kind that, apparently, Brexiteers don't want) is somehow a justification for leaving the EU, even though there are plenty of controls (including ID checks, advance passenger information declarations, and time-limits on residency) for EU migrants.

Sounds like you've been drinking as much Koolaid as the most fanatical Brexiteer. :rolleyes:

Well did the UK just spend about 70k fishing Iranians out of the Eng Channel last month?

The reason asylum is desired in France, is you have to carry ID at all times, the French cops are far from friendly, while the UK the black market/system is much easier to play.

Buy a new ID, get someone to print a few utility bill letterheads and it's more new John Smiths you can count, getting shinney new NI number cards leading to free health/housing/benefits.

Capt'n Midnight · 10-02-2019 10:58pm

listermint wrote: »

So you don't understand that we've spent two years preparing for this then ?

No one is saying it's going to be roses. Why did you repeat that ? Where's the over confidence?

We've spent two years being as prepared as we can be. And no none of this is off topic.

The ERSI report came out in November 2015. It cited German reports from 2014.

We've been diversifying since Independence when 96% of our exports went to the UK

Unlike the UK we can't call off Brexit, we can't choose a soft Brexit.

At least the EU has proposed some unilateral measures to soften the effect of a hard Brexit on the EU and it's citizens.

What has the UK guaranteed in return apart from the proposal to allow trucks to enter without customs checks ?

Capt'n Midnight · 10-02-2019 11:17pm

eagle eye wrote: »

The UK is a big enough country to make a fist of it outside the EU.

Survive yes, thrive no.

As the Belgian or Dutch prime minister pointed out the only way the UK can offset the advantages of being part of the EU is to reduce costs by eroding workers rights etc.

One of the reasons the UK has full employment is that businesses aren't investing in capital. So full employment but productivity isn't going up.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47168866

After the crisis, firms hung on to workers rather than invest in major projects, as it was the cheaper and more flexible option. They may be doing the same again.

Even devaluing the pound hasn't helped exports. That's a warning for anyone who expects the UK to replace the EU market with more global trade.

n theory, too, a weaker pound makes UK exports more attractive. Sales to overseas customers were stronger than anticipated pre-referendum - but they rose by less than would have been expected.

And surveys over the last couple of months have suggested export orders have dried up, perhaps as customers fear a no-deal scenario could spell delay and extra charges on delivery.

Here Intel are investing $8Bn in their plant in Leixlip.

In the UK across an entire industry. Last year, total automotive investment was £588.6 million

CelticRambler · 10-02-2019 11:17pm

Joanna Better Hairpiece wrote: »

Well did the UK just spend about 70k fishing Iranians out of the Eng Channel last month?

The reason asylum is desired in France, is you have to carry ID at all times, the French cops are far from friendly, while the UK the black market/system is much easier to play.

Buy a new ID, get someone to print a few utility bill letterheads and it's more new John Smiths you can count, getting shinney new NI number cards leading to free health/housing/benefits.

So that's all completely under the control of the current UK government - the same guys and girls that are "taking back control" by cutting their ties with the EU, whose citizens are not involved in any way with illegal immigration, and the same lads and lasses that state publicly "we won't put up a hard border!" so ... ... ...

Enzokk · 10-02-2019 11:19pm

eagle eye wrote: »

We'll be moving on to another country looking to get out of the EU pretty soon is my guess. Greece and Italy could decide to want out at any time.

Did you watch that BBC series about the EU? The second part was about how Greece almost caused the collapse of the euro. What was interesting to me was how the new government of Greece came to the EU in a whirlwind on the back of being given a mandate by the people to reject the terms of the bailout. Sounds familiar?

You know what almost happened? The EU was on the verge of kicking Greece out of the eurozone. This forced Alexis Tsipras to accept a deal that was worse than what he rejected before he went to the Greek people in a referendum. He then had to go back to the Greek people to ask them to accept a worse deal or leave the country out of the euro and eurozone. As others have pointed out look at what has happened in Italy. If anything the UK leaving the EU will kickstart the changes that the EU has always said they know they need.

alloywheel wrote: »

After many decades of being a pillar of the EEC / EU, since the early seventies, and its second biggest net contributor, the UK has has enough and has democratically voted to leave. Say what you like about the British, but when they say they will do something, they do it. They do not surrender. They do not have further referendums or get bribed to change their mind, like us. They will leave on March 29th, they have had enough. The EU saying the Brexiters have a special place in Hell just strengthens their resolve and does not help matters.

Do you have a link to show how the UK is the second biggest net contributor? If you give me the link to show how this was true for one year don't bother as I can show you that for 2008 they were the 6th biggest contributor behind Germany, France, Italy, Netherlands and Sweden.

I have also shown you that for the period from 2007 to 2013 they were the third biggest net contributor on average behind Germany and France.

In case you missed it here is the links I have.

Eu Budget

http://ec.europa.eu/budget/figures/2007-2013/index_en.cfm

You can play with the dates and also the information you are looking at with the graphs in the second link.

Leroy42 · 10-02-2019 11:25pm

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

'Trade' being a euphemism for gun-point colonialism, slavery, and resource-stripping.

For the first time in centuries the British, with one third of the exports of Germany, will be making trade deals without pointing guns, and threatening blockades, in a world of more powerful trading blocs.

Best of luck to them, they're going to need it.

I wouldn't be too sure of that.

They have certainly been a few attempts to try to bully the EU, certainly Davis and his ilk are very much in favour of it. And the likes of JRM, and many others, openly threaten the withholding of agreed financial obligations to try to get their way.

And lets us not forgot the way they have tried to divide and conquer the EU throughout the process and how they, mainly through the media, have continually tried to describe Ireland and our Taoiseach as the source of all ills.

Imreoir2 · 10-02-2019 11:35pm

downcow wrote: »

Fair point but I see no significant violence. It would though be quite legitimate for the 1million unionists to do all they wish within the law to oppose a UI and a campaign for Northern Ireland independence would seem very likely. Which I imagine would lead to devolution for NI.

Since when has there been 1 million unionists?

Capt'n Midnight · 10-02-2019 11:43pm

Enzokk wrote: »

Do you have a link to show how the UK is the second biggest net contributor?

Since triggering Article 50 the UK economy has slowed down.

The reduction in tax take is about 2.5 times what EU membership cost.

EU membership would be cheap at twice the price.

And there is no sign of any increase in trade with the rest of the world even though Sterling has fallen drastically.

And there is no sign of the UK getting a better deal with any third party than with they had within the EU.

All the signs point to the opposite. Three types of deals so far.

Faroe Islands - UK rolls over and rubber stamps a deal preferential to the other party.

Southern Africa - £4 Bn of aid promised to get a deal similar to what they have already.

Japan/Oz/Nz/India - EU deal suited the UK, third parties want big changes.

LeinsterDub · 10-02-2019 11:46pm

Imreoir2 wrote: »

Since when has there been 1 million unionists?

The population of Northern Ireland is 1.9 million a majority of them are in favour of retaining the union. Are we really going to spilt hairs on this?

alloywheel · 11-02-2019 12:02am

Enzokk wrote: »

Do you have a link to show how the UK is the second biggest net contributor?

Debated to death already because some figures are per head of population, and some countries payments do not include some rebates etc However here is a link for just one year:

"On a net basis, Britain was the second largest contributor to the EU budget last year. It put €10.8bn more into the EU pot last year than it took out. Only Germany paid more on a net basis."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/11221427/EU-budget-what-you-need-to-know.html

Anyway the point is they have called a halt to it, some people there say that almost a net 200 billion has been paid to the EEC / EU over the years. The Eurozone is the sick man of the world with the lowest growth rate this past number of years, they are leaving the EU. People democratically wanting to leave place like that they have subsidised for so long may be told they have a special place in hell, that only resolves their desire to leave.

eagle eye · 11-02-2019 12:03am

Enzokk wrote: »

Did you watch that BBC series about the EU? The second part was about how Greece almost caused the collapse of the euro. What was interesting to me was how the new government of Greece came to the EU in a whirlwind on the back of being given a mandate by the people to reject the terms of the bailout. Sounds familiar?

You know what almost happened? The EU was on the verge of kicking Greece out of the eurozone. This forced Alexis Tsipras to accept a deal that was worse than what he rejected before he went to the Greek people in a referendum. He then had to go back to the Greek people to ask them to accept a worse deal or leave the country out of the euro and eurozone. As others have pointed out look at what has happened in Italy. If anything the UK leaving the EU will kickstart the changes that the EU has always said they know they need.

I'm not saying that it will work out for the UK. I said that in my earlier post and I don't fancy their chances with their current politicians.

This is a whole lot different to Greece. There are a whole lot of issues both for the UK and for the EU.

It's a hell of a lot of money gone from the EU coffers.

We have NATO issues as there are many EU members who are NATO members and now we have a huge European power that's not. What is going to happen when the UK takes a different view to the powers in the EU. Do we see France take the side of the EU or the UK and whichever way they go there are going to be repercussions.

What about the G20? Another very important organisation of which the UK are an individual member where we could see problems post a hard brexit.

Jamiekelly · 11-02-2019 12:04am

Please, for the love of God, do not quote this post or else the entire thread will become an entire mess. If you want to talk about a certain agency just reference the acronym at the start of each section.

Decided to do a little research on the true cost of the UK leaving the EU and what it entails. This is going to be a long post so apologies in advance but it hasn't really been posted or analysed here so I thought it would make for decent reading.

This is a list of the EU agencies that the UK will have to replace in the event of a no deal Brexit and their annual budget.

- ACER, AGENCY FOR THE COOPERATION OF ENERGY REGULATORS
15.8 MILLION EURO
- BEREC OFFICE, OFFICE OF THE BODY OF EUROPEAN REGULATORS FOR ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATIONS
4.0 MILLION EURO
- BBI JU, BIO-BASED INDUSTRIES JOINT UNDERTAKING
209.4 MILLION EURO
- CdT, TRANSLATION CENTRE FOR THE BODIES OF THE EUROPEAN UNION
49 MILLION EURO
- CEDEFOP, EUROPEAN CENTRE FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF VOCATIONAL TRAINING
18.35 MILLION EURO
- CEPOL, EUROPEAN UNION AGENCY FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT TRAINING
8.5 MILLION EURO
- CLEAN SKY JU, CLEAN SKY 2 JOINT UNDERTAKING
351.9 MILLION EURO
- CPVO, COMMUNITY PLANT VARIETY OFFICE
15 MILLION EURO
- EASA, EUROPEAN AVIATION SAFETY AGENCY
150 MILLION EURO
- EASO, EUROPEAN ASYLUM SUPPORT OFFICE
15.9 MILLION EURO
- EBA, EUROPEAN BANKING AUTHORITY
33.5 MILLION EURO
- ECDC, EUROPEAN CENTRE FOR DISEASE PREVENTION AND CONTROL
58.4 MILLION EURO
- ECHA, EUROPEAN CHEMICALS AGENCY
107 MILLION EURO
- ECSEL JU, ELECTRONIC COMPONENTS AND SYSTEMS FOR EUROPEAN
LEADERSHIP JOINT UNDERTAKING
666.8 MILLION EURO
- EDA, EUROPEAN DEFENCE AGENCY
30.5 MILLION EURO
- EEA, EUROPEAN ENVIRONMENT AGENCY
41.7 MILLION EURO
- EFCA, EUROPEAN FISHERIES CONTROL AGENCY
9.217 MILLION EURO
- EFSA, EUROPEAN FOOD SAFETY AUTHORITY
76.9 MILLION EURO
- EIGE, EUROPEAN INSTITUTE FOR GENDER EQUALITY
7.62 MILLION EURO
- EIOPA, EUROPEAN INSURANCE AND OCCUPATIONAL PENSIONS AUTHORITY
20.6 MILLION EURO
- EIT, EUROPEAN INSTITUTE OF INNOVATION & TECHNOLOGY
295.1 MILLION EURO
- EMA, EUROPEAN MEDICINES AGENCY
304.1 MILLION EURO
- EMCDDA, EUROPEAN MONITORING CENTRE FOR DRUGS AND DRUG ADDICTION
15.3 MILLION EURO
- EMSA, EUROPEAN MARITIME SAFETY AGENCY
54.2 MILLION EURO
- ENISA, EUROPEAN UNION AGENCY FOR NETWORK AND INFORMATION SECURITY
10.1 MILLION EURO
- ERA, EUROPEAN UNION AGENCY FOR RAILWAYS
24.7 MILLION EURO
- ESMA, EUROPEAN SECURITIES AND MARKETS AUTHORITY
39.392 MILLION EURO
- ETF, EUROPEAN TRAINING FOUNDATION
20.1 MILLION EURO
- EUIPO, EUROPEAN UNION INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY OFFICE
384.2 MILLION EURO
- EUISS, EUROPEAN UNION INSTITUTE FOR SECURITY STUDIES
5.35 MILLION EURO
- eu-LISA, EUROPEAN AGENCY FOR THE OPERATIONAL MANAGEMENT OF LARGESCALE IT SYSTEMS IN THE AREA OF FREEDOM, SECURITY AND JUSTICE
67.6 MILLION EURO
- EU-OSHA, EUROPEAN AGENCY FOR SAFETY AND HEALTH AT WORK
15.2 MILLION EURO
- EUROFOUND, EUROPEAN FOUNDATION FOR THE IMPROVEMENT OF LIVING AND
WORKING CONDITIONS
21 MILLION EURO
- EUROJUST, EUROPEAN UNION’S JUDICIAL COOPERATION UNIT
33.818 MILLION EURO
- EUROPOL, EUROPEAN POLICE OFFICE
95.4 MILLION EURO
- F4E JU, FUSION FOR ENERGY - THE EUROPEAN JOINT UNDERTAKING FOR
ITER AND THE DEVELOPMENT OF FUSION ENERGY
385.2 MILLION EURO
- FCH 2 JU, FUEL CELLS AND HYDROGEN 2 JOINT UNDERTAKING
114.615 MILLION EURO
- FRA, EUROPEAN UNION AGENCY FOR FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS
21.6 MILLION EURO
- FRONTEX, EUROPEAN BORDER AND COAST GUARD AGENCY
143.3 MILLION EURO
- GSA, EUROPEAN GNSS AGENCY
27.6 MILLION EURO
- IMI JU, INNOVATIVE MEDICINES INITIATIVE
315.2 MILLION EURO
- SatCen, EUROPEAN UNION SATELLITE CENTRE
17.9 MILLION EURO
- SESAR JU, SINGLE EUROPEAN SKY ATM RESEARCH (SESAR) JOINT UNDERTAKING
89.36 MILLION EURO
- S2R JU, SHIFT2RAIL JOINT UNDERTAKING
920 MILLION EURO
- SRB, SINGLE RESOLUTION BOARD
22 MILLION EURO

In case anyone was wondering what this annual budgets total is, it's 5.33146 Billion.

There is one very interesting aspect to this, in that these are just the running costs. The costs to create these agencies and their assets in terms of finance and man hours, are entirely different and much more expensive. This list also doesn't include the institutions for example, like the ESA (European Space Agency) who might have agency in their name but have a budget that defines them as an institution under EU regulations.

For example SatCen has an annual budget of 18 million yet it was instrumental in the planning and creation of the Copernicus satellite along with the ESA which has been one of the EU's success stories. They obviously monitor it still and for a budget of 18 million annually, it's seems to be an absolute bargain. Now consider the UK has to replace this as well as Galileo, along with every other agency (or at least the vast majority of them) is it really feasible for Brexiteers to claim they can run a satellite monitoring system like that for only 18 million a year? I highly doubt it just looking at the state of their outsourcing in the UK. Look at Carrilion, G4S and Serco, wasting tens of billions of pounds, multiple massive accountability devoid scandals and denials, while doing a consistantly worse job than the public sector ever could.

The UK will be in for a world of pain come April.

listermint · 11-02-2019 12:06am

LeinsterDub wrote: »

The population of Northern Ireland is 1.9 million a majority of them are in favour of retaining the union. Are we really going to spilt hairs on this?

We don't know that. Have you ran your own referendum that we don't know about ?

What we do know is the majority wanted to stay in the EU and the majority have said that brexit will change feelings on a UI.

Can we split hairs on that

listermint · 11-02-2019 12:08am

downcow wrote: »

This ^^^

That is utter drivel.

The UK put in X and they got in return 22 times X.

If you want to argue with nonsense in your back pocket then you may go argue with a wall that might listen.

The notion Britian pays in more than anyone else and then gets nothing is hilarious. What do you think pays for NI?

Infini · 11-02-2019 12:17am

LeinsterDub wrote: »

The population of Northern Ireland is 1.9 million a majority of them are in favour of retaining the union. Are we really going to spilt hairs on this?

Well lets be honest the thing the unionist's up there may or may not have thought about is that even if they're only 1mil people the whole population of the island would be about 6.5mil. 1mil is tiny in the UK I mean NI has what 18 seats out of a total of 650. That's minuscule. However lets take the dail for example with a seat repenting not a constituency but 20-30k people per seat (average 25k). Unionist's politicians would have say 36~40 seats in a dail of say 240 if we keep the current ratio. That would give them 15% as a total power block if those various groups reorganized into one party. That might seem small but it's significantly larger proportionately compared to Westminster. All they'd need then is policies that win support from other parts of the island and they can end up as a kingmaker of any government as well so long as they're reasonable.

As for the flag issue well we can go back to a more original one like

Or stick a temporary one in!

Mick%20McMenemie.png

Enzokk · 11-02-2019 12:24am

alloywheel wrote: »

Debated to death already because some figures are per head of population, and some countries payments do not include some rebates etc However here is a link for just one year:

"On a net basis, Britain was the second largest contributor to the EU budget last year. It put €10.8bn more into the EU pot last year than it took out. Only Germany paid more on a net basis."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/11221427/EU-budget-what-you-need-to-know.html

Anyway the point is they have called a halt to it, some people there say that almost a net 200 billion has been paid to the EEC / EU over the years. The Eurozone is the sick man of the world with the lowest growth rate this past number of years, they are leaving the EU. People democratically wanting to leave place like that they have subsidised for so long may be told they have a special place in hell, that only resolves their desire to leave.

Okay so you are making an assertion on one year and trying to pass it off as fact. I can do the same if you want. The UK is only the 6th biggest net contributor to the EU budget. This is according to 2008 figures where they only had a 800m euro net contribution.

I will not do this because it is silly to do it. Can you please stop doing that as well. Please just post that the UK is one of the top net contributors and you will not be taken to task on what you use as facts and your credibility will rise as well. At the moment anything you post I will have to take as spin as you have done with the net contribution figures.

You are correct that the EU will miss the UK as a partner. They have repeatedly stated this and have also said that they can reverse their decision at any time and be welcomed back because the EU is about strong partnerships and working together. Unfortunately from 2005 when Cameron stupidly pulled the Tories out of the European People's Party group that left him outside of the thinking of Macron and Merkle. This whole fiasco is so stupid it is not even funny.

eagle eye wrote: »

I'm not saying that it will work out for the UK. I said that in my earlier post and I don't fancy their chances with their current politicians.

This is a whole lot different to Greece. There are a whole lot of issues both for the UK and for the EU.

It's a hell of a lot of money gone from the EU coffers.

We have NATO issues as there are many EU members who are NATO members and now we have a huge European power that's not. What is going to happen when the UK takes a different view to the powers in the EU. Do we see France take the side of the EU or the UK and whichever way they go there are going to be repercussions.

What about the G20? Another very important organisation of which the UK are an individual member where we could see problems post a hard brexit.

Well the Greek crises meant that the EU had to create a 750B euro fund to help other countries in trouble. Do you think they are really going to be losing sleep over 5B euro annually? It will be tough to lose the UK but my point was the same way the Greeks thought that they could go to the EU with a mandate from their people and set out their demands and the EU will have to listen, history is repeating itself.

As for NATO, that is independent of the EU so not sure what it has to do with the EU and Brexit. The G20, the EU is a member and some of its member states are as well. I don't know what problems you foresee with that, what kind of problems will happen at the G20 due to Brexit?

Brexit discussion thread VII (Please read OP before posting)

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