Brexit discussion thread VII (Please read OP before posting)

tuxy · 07-02-2019 7:16pm

I would imagine the idea is a good negotiator would probably be better at applying pressure face to face. Of course May is a terrible negotiator but they still have to keep up the pretence.

J Mysterio · 07-02-2019 7:20pm

tuxy wrote: »

Could they not do this on the phone and then have formal in person meetings once there was at least a hint that there might be progress.

What a waste of time.

Indeed. What is there to talk about really?

May is still bullshıtting to be fair. Released a statement saying she was coming to renegotiate backstop per HOC commitment and said she was having talks with the EU on this... but everyone knows the EU are not renegotiating WA. It's pathetic to be frank.

Tell me how · 07-02-2019 7:21pm

Face to face is way more effective than any form of digital communication.

Even most of us, in a work environment, probably prefer that for critical conversations.

J Mysterio · 07-02-2019 7:21pm

briany wrote: »

I wonder if the actual physical act of heading over there is not just for show. I mean Number 10 must have a decent Internet connection. They could have dealings over Skype.

Although they want May there in person just they can make sure she hasn't got her fingers crossed behind her back.

It's probably just anything to get her out of Westminster for a few days. Two days in NI, a day in Brussels, over to Dublin and.. Hey presto, it's the weekend!

Water John · 07-02-2019 7:35pm

Will she be as glum coming out of the meeting with Leo?

EU is saying the WA is closed but PD can be changed. UK seem to be saying today, that a WA will be in the final agreement but not saying the present WA will be in the doc.
There is a lot of room to change PD and get a majority in HOC to support it. EU figures have directly told her, that is the route to go.
She looks like having to no choice but go for a softer Brexit and split her own Party. This will tell us was she ever fit to be PM.

bilston · 07-02-2019 7:49pm

lawred2 wrote: »

They won't be. They are not taigs.

Not sure how to respond to that

Leroy42 · 07-02-2019 7:51pm

CelticRambler wrote: »

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

But presumably the night before you go to Argentina you'll have to double check that the rules haven't changed and that there's no hidden charges beneath the headline zero figure. And the people you travel with may be with a different provider (or have a different deal with the same provider) and not get the same zero roaming fees so won't be able to contact you.

But all of that is/would be a commercial decision to be made by the operator. Yes, my provider might decide on a whim to suddenly cut my calls or data allowance (even while I'm travelling around the EU) but probably won't because that would piss me off and encourage me to change to an alternative provider. It's the same with this story: the EU's consumer protection lapses on the 29th March, but that doesn't mean that roaming charges will, inevitably, appear on bills from the 30th.

In the event of no-deal, we're going to see a lot more of this as some companies decide to take advantage of gaps in consumer protection legislation, but it'll creep in slowly over months, not with a bang the day after Brexit. And even if it's slipped into updated T&Cs, it'll take longer for people to end up in a situation where they actually notice what they've lost. That's why I'd treat these headlines as Project Fear.

Why do you think roaming charges were removed in the first place? Simply because Telco companies didn't like many money?

Of course 30th March won't see it but you'll see it happening, as you said, slowly. To get a lower monthly bill you give up free roaming for example.

Yet you treat it as project fear when you also agree that it is likely to happen

Kermit.de.frog · 07-02-2019 7:52pm

UK Attorney Gen is coming to Dublin tomorrow now as well.

BAD IDEA. Ireland should keep negotiations in Brussels and not allow bilateral engagement on the WA & backstop which is precisely what the tories want.

lawred2 · 07-02-2019 7:55pm

bilston wrote: »

Not sure how to respond to that

Well it is ultimately their raison d'être

VinLieger · 07-02-2019 8:10pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

UK Attorney Gen is coming to Dublin tomorrow now as well.

BAD IDEA. Ireland should keep negotiations in Brussels and not allow bilateral engagement on the WA & backstop which is precisely what the tories want.

They have been quite clear all brexit negotiations happen with brussels, i seriously doubt they will make a mistake and discuss anything brexit related with him since as you say its exactly what the tories want which our government well know by now as well

MadYaker · 07-02-2019 8:11pm

Folkstonian wrote: »

There was a guy earlier today who was clearly irritated that some british cars don’t have an EU flag emblem on the registration plate!

Tusk has just compared those who lead the Brexit campaign to people we believe are destined for ‘a special place in hell’ - rapists, murderers, abusers, etc

I understand that people here are loyal and grateful to Tusk because he has gone into bat for Ireland in the media countless times over the past couple of years - but these comments are as unhelpful, nasty, and divisive as any comparison of the EU to the USSR.

If talks break down entirely at this point, Tusk will not be blameless.

I agree it doesn't help anything, at least not as far as I can tell. I agree with him but he shouldn't have said it.

GSRNBP · 07-02-2019 8:24pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

UK Attorney Gen is coming to Dublin tomorrow now as well.

BAD IDEA. Ireland should keep negotiations in Brussels and not allow bilateral engagement on the WA & backstop which is precisely what the tories want.

I'm not sure it'll have any impact to be honest. They're just coming over for optics back home.

FrancieBrady · 07-02-2019 8:27pm

MadYaker wrote: »

I agree it doesn't help anything, at least not as far as I can tell. I agree with him but he shouldn't have said it.

I am seeing plenty of people in the UK now taking the opportunity to say the same thing.
There is a very real sense that the game is up for the lies, propaganda and head in the sand activities of the Brexiteer camp.
Time to own what they have done.

downcow · 07-02-2019 8:31pm

https://twitter.com/ellenjoelle/status/1093335514105688064

LeinsterDub wrote: »

https://twitter.com/ellenjoelle/status/1093335514105688064

More of yesterday's PR offensive . A strong symbol of support

This demonstrates how you are being far too confident about Eu support and solidarity.
The single roi flag flying is nothing to do with solidarity - or if it is then you want to panic because today it was replaced with two flags one of which was the UK flag. I assume it goes up when the particular pm is in town.
I worry for you guys and how much confidence you are putting in the Eu.

downcow · 07-02-2019 8:34pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I am seeing plenty of people in the UK now taking the opportunity to say the same thing.
There is a very real sense that the game is up for the lies, propaganda and head in the sand activities of the Brexiteer camp.
Time to own what they have done.

I think that is wishful thinking. Tusk done wonders to solidify the brexiteers and increase support with his outburst yesterday.

briany · 07-02-2019 8:35pm

It's divisive language. It probably shouldn't have been said. It will give Euro-sceptics more ammo.

But Tusk was only saying it about those Brexiteers who promoted the thing without a plan in place.

So, most of them.

Imagine some leading advocate of Brexit reading the tweet and going, "Hey! I promoted Brexit without a plan! He's talking about me!! How DARE he call me on my recklessness!!! :mad::mad::mad: "

Hurrache · 07-02-2019 8:36pm

downcow wrote: »

I think that is wishful thinking. Tusk done wonders to solidify the brexiteers and increase support with his outburst yesterday.

Doesn't make a difference, they're never going to agree to anything anyway.

And like I said yesterday, the EU are dealing with the UK government, not the public.

With Labour possibly making overtures May may do without the ERG headers.

tuxy · 07-02-2019 8:39pm

Why does a twitter post from a Scottish woman make you worry about Ireland?

Water John · 07-02-2019 8:40pm

Well the UK weren't getting the subtle messages. May's glum face today shows it struck home. There comes a time when bull***t needs to be called what it is.

alloywheel · 07-02-2019 8:41pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

UK Attorney Gen is coming to Dublin tomorrow now as well.

The UK does not want a hard border. They are right to try to give us every chance to talk, but if Leo continues to be stubborn, we have only ourselves to blame when the EU tells us to erect a hard border. Wait and see.

downcow wrote: »

I worry for you guys and how much confidence you are putting in the Eu.

+1. The EU is going to screw Ireland, same as they done with the credit bubble / repaying the bondholders, wait and see.

Seth Brundle · 07-02-2019 8:42pm

downcow wrote: »

I think that is wishful thinking. Tusk done wonders to solidify the brexiteers and increase support with his outburst yesterday.

By how much has pro-Brexit support increased since Tusk made his comment?

c.p.w.g.w · 07-02-2019 8:43pm

alloywheel wrote: »

The UK does not want a hard border. They are right to try to give us every chance to talk, but if Leo continues to be stubborn, we have only ourselves to blame when the EU tells us to erect a hard border. Wait and see.

Leo can't make any deals with May...we are part of the EU for negotiations. We can't make bilateral agreements with Britain

Seth Brundle · 07-02-2019 8:43pm

alloywheel wrote: »

The UK does not want a hard border. They are right to try to give us every chance to talk, but if Leo continues to be stubborn, we have only ourselves to blame when the EU tells us to erect a hard border. Wait and see.

Deliberately posting lies as facts again alloy?

Leroy42 · 07-02-2019 8:44pm

Oh my, Tusk has emboldened the Brexiteers? Because they were such calm and reasonable people before.

Tusk comments have probably destroyed the cabinet, government and HoC collective position?

So do you think the likes of the ERG and the DUP will become somewhat stuck in their opposition now because of that and they liking of EU politicians might sour?

Suddenly the words from the EU are the very basis of the Brexit campaign. If only they had said they wanted the UK to stay things might have worked out better?

Hurrache · 07-02-2019 8:45pm

alloywheel wrote: »

The UK does not want a hard border. They are right to try to give us every chance to talk, but if Leo continues to be stubborn, we have only ourselves to blame when the EU tells us to erect a hard border. Wait and see.

+1. The EU is going to screw Ireland, same as they done with the credit bubble / repaying the bondholders, wait and see.

Haven't you already been shown multiple times that all this is nonsense. Why do you persist?

alloywheel · 07-02-2019 8:47pm

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Leo can't make any deals with May...we are part of the EU for negotiations. We can't make bilateral agreements with Britain

So we have lost power and independence to Brussels. The EU will bully us too.

ilovesmybrick · 07-02-2019 8:50pm

alloywheel wrote:

+1. The EU is going to screw Ireland, same as they done with the credit bubble / repaying the bondholders, wait and see.

You know what, maybe they will. It's entirely possible. However, I'll happily throw my hat in with the EU since they have consistently demonstrated their support over the past three years over the UK government who deny any support or understanding for the worries within their own nation and that have MPs that have literally threatened to starve the Republic. Maybe its my own naivety, but we can only work on precedence in a situation as ridiculous as this.

prawnsambo · 07-02-2019 8:51pm

alloywheel wrote: »

So we have lost power and independence to Brussels. The EU will bully us too.

The UK is leaving the EU, not leaving Ireland. Who do you think negotiates that process?

c.p.w.g.w · 07-02-2019 8:55pm

alloywheel wrote: »

So we have lost power and independence to Brussels. The EU will bully us too.

More lies

downcow · 07-02-2019 8:56pm

tuxy wrote: »

Why does a twitter post from a Scottish woman make you worry about Ireland?

It wasn’t a Scottish woman posted it on here
I just am surprised how some on here from ireland can see unrelated stuff as evidence of how much Eu loves ireland

Brexit discussion thread VII (Please read OP before posting)

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