Ireland Team Talk Thread IX: Grand Slam Champions SEE MOD WARNING POST #1122

Squidgy Black · 01-12-2018 9:22pm

troyzer wrote: »

Yeah, we can finally put the openside selection dilemma to bed now as well.

Penny is clearly the best 7 in Ireland after his two professional games playing well against crap teams.

Doris is clearly going to over take Stander as well. Get an IRISH player in there instead.

foxyladyxx · 01-12-2018 9:23pm

troyzer wrote: »

Yeah, we can finally put the openside selection dilemma to bed now as well.

Penny is clearly the best 7 in Ireland after his two professional games playing well against crap teams.

What is happening everybody?

Downlinz · 01-12-2018 9:25pm

Faugheen wrote: »

What exactly does Farrell offer that the rest don't, though?

Unless something happens to Ringrose, Aki or Henshaw, I can't see Farrell going to the World Cup. It makes no sense bringing 4 centres. 3 + 1 utility back is plenty.

Unless that utility back is Henshaw, he fits the bench role perfectly as a centre / fullback.

Squidgy Black · 01-12-2018 9:27pm

Downlinz wrote: »

Unless that utility back is Henshaw, he fits the bench role perfectly as a centre / fullback.

Farrell doesn't play fullback. That's Addison you're thinking of.

jacothelad · 02-12-2018 1:49am

kuang1 wrote: »

I don't it's overly fantastical to suggest that Farrell could overtake Aki over the course of the 6 nations.

Aki is a 12 and Farrell is a 13.

Elvisjuice · 02-12-2018 1:50am

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Its a joke....

not a very good one .

Gonad · 03-12-2018 1:50am

Who would Joe rather take to the World Cup

Prime Tommy Bowe or the young Jacob Stockdale ?

03-12-2018 4:26am

Gonad wrote: »

Who would Joe rather take to the World Cup

Prime Tommy Bowe or the young Jacob Stockdale ?

No brainer

Burkie1203 · 03-12-2018 8:30am

Gonad wrote: »

Who would Joe rather take to the World Cup

Prime Tommy Bowe or the young Jacob Stockdale ?

Dave Kearney. Obviously

Clegg · 03-12-2018 8:50am

Anthony Horgan

THFC198 · 03-12-2018 9:36am

Andy Skehan

03-12-2018 9:56am

Gonad wrote: »

Who would Joe rather take to the World Cup

Prime Tommy Bowe or the young Jacob Stockdale ?

Bowe was so good back in 2013 that Gatland didn't send him home when he broke his arm on the Lions tour, instead keeping him around on the off chance it recovered early (which it did) and parachuted him into the test team for the second and third tests.

He is one of the classiest, smartest rugby football players we've ever produced.

Stockdale scores tries though. Last year there was a part of me that felt his try scoring record was incredible but with a good few relatively soft scores and a fair amount of risky opportunism. More recently and certainly post All Blacks win I can't help but feel he's much more gifted than I gave him credit for. He's big, strong, skilled and smart. Has much of Tommy's class but maybe a little more athletic overall.

I think the real question is - if prime Tommy Bowe was available, who (if any) would miss out - Stockdale or Earls (or Kearney...?)?

Clegg · 03-12-2018 10:35am

Zebo.

Squidgy Black · 03-12-2018 10:50am

Clegg wrote: »

Zebo.

Darragh Fanning

The Rape of Lucretia · 03-12-2018 11:11am

Gonad wrote: »

Who would Joe rather take to the World Cup

Prime Tommy Bowe or the young Jacob Stockdale ?

Bowser without a shadow of a doubt. Stocksie is a long long way from the finished article. He has done well for sure, and his place is not under serious threat at the moment. He may well reach Bowe's level or exceed it, but a lot of dvmt to go yet. At a guess, and its not at all to run down his very productive start in green, but feel he will not quite ever get to peak Bowe.

Former Former · 03-12-2018 11:21am

Tommy Bowe 2009 - 2014 was probably the best Irish winger of the professional era. It's unfortunate he was plagued by injury in his last couple of seasons but he'd be picked ahead of anyone we have now.

Clegg · 03-12-2018 11:34am

Deleted User wrote: »

Gonad wrote: »

Who would Joe rather take to the World Cup

Prime Tommy Bowe or the young Jacob Stockdale ?

Bowe was so good back in 2013 that Gatland didn't send him home when he broke his arm on the Lions tour, instead keeping him around on the off chance it recovered early (which it did) and parachuted him into the test team for the second and third tests.

He is one of the classiest, smartest rugby football players we've ever produced.

Stockdale scores tries though. Last year there was a part of me that felt his try scoring record was incredible but with a good few relatively soft scores and a fair amount of risky opportunism. More recently and certainly post All Blacks win I can't help but feel he's much more gifted than I gave him credit for. He's big, strong, skilled and smart. Has much of Tommy's class but maybe a little more athletic overall.

I think the real question is - if prime Tommy Bowe was available, who (if any) would miss out - Stockdale or Earls (or Kearney...?)?

If we had that many quality options we'd have to bring all 4 and cut back on a utility player. You run the risk of having to play one of them at FB if Kearney gets injured, but you need that try scoring ability in the side even if it's a bit lobsided.

Fwiw I agree with your assessment on Bowe. He was often the highlight of the Kidney era teams where our attacking patterns in the backs were dreadful. He had very little to work with but got the very most out of it. At times it seemed the strategy was hoping BoD pulled off a bit of magic and that Bowe was running a support line.

A 25 year old Bowe in last season's Ireland side would have been magic.

b.gud · 03-12-2018 11:42am

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Bowser without a shadow of a doubt. Stocksie is a long long way from the finished article. He has done well for sure, and his place is not under serious threat at the moment. He may well reach Bowe's level or exceed it, but a lot of dvmt to go yet. At a guess, and its not at all to run down his very productive start in green, but feel he will not quite ever get to peak Bowe.

jacothelad · 03-12-2018 12:50pm

Clegg wrote: »

Anthony Horgan

Feck. I had just got over that and now you have caused it to emerge from the swamp again. Anto, the only international winger slower than a second row.:D:D:D

jacothelad · 03-12-2018 12:54pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Bowe was so good back in 2013 that Gatland didn't send him home when he broke his arm on the Lions tour, instead keeping him around on the off chance it recovered early (which it did) and parachuted him into the test team for the second and third tests.

He is one of the classiest, smartest rugby football players we've ever produced.

Stockdale scores tries though. Last year there was a part of me that felt his try scoring record was incredible but with a good few relatively soft scores and a fair amount of risky opportunism. More recently and certainly post All Blacks win I can't help but feel he's much more gifted than I gave him credit for. He's big, strong, skilled and smart. Has much of Tommy's class but maybe a little more athletic overall.

I think the real question is - if prime Tommy Bowe was available, who (if any) would miss out - Stockdale or Earls (or Kearney...?)?

Stockdale also seems to be really, really fast at top speed where T.B. was quick but not searingly so, getting himself into the right position almost flawlessly.. Stockdale is a bit gangly and 'unco-ordinated by comparison and seems a bit prone to getting himself into awkward defensive positions that Bowe would have avoided.

03-12-2018 1:03pm

jacothelad wrote: »

Stockdale also seems to be really, really fast at top speed where T.B. was quick but not searingly so, getting himself into the right position almost flawlessly.. Stockdale is a bit gangly and 'unco-ordinated by comparison and seems a bit prone to getting himself into awkward defensive positions that Bowe would have avoided.

I don't think James O'Connor would have caught Stockdale in Auckland !

jacothelad · 03-12-2018 1:20pm

Clegg wrote: »

Zebo.

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ0AaRuR32CBisdX-qTi3x6WxuB1qyEnB1_axnHWicrypRaV7ZU

Dubinusa · 03-12-2018 3:42pm

I think Stockdale will have a long career. He looks to a niche for scavenging the ball and he scores tries like it's natural.
He is not the finished product, but he is extremely good at 22 yrs old!
I think he'll be world class.
If he was on Leinster, we'd prostrate ourselves before him and proclaim him "Messiah ".
He still has a lot to learn and the finished product will be like North. At least I think he's going to be better than North.

vetinari · 03-12-2018 8:07pm

Stockdale is arguably our second most important player after Sexton.
In big games, he's proven himself to be a difference maker.
I'm not sure if Bowe would have had the pace for the try against New Zealand.
The try against England at Twickenham where he grounded the ball just before the dead ball line is another example.
The try against Scotland where he cut back inside the last defender looks simple but 4 out of 5 Irish wings probably get tackled there and the ball has to be recycled.

Bowe was a better all around player but Stockdale is a more potent attacking threat.
You'd have to go back to early BOD days for a similar comparison.

troyzer · 03-12-2018 8:17pm

vetinari wrote: »

Stockdale is arguably our second most important player after Sexton.
In big games, he's proven himself to be a difference maker.
I'm not sure if Bowe would have had the pace for the try against New Zealand.
The try against England at Twickenham where he grounded the ball just before the dead ball line is another example.
The try against Scotland where he cut back inside the last defender looks simple but 4 out of 5 Irish wings probably get tackled there and the ball has to be recycled.

Bowe was a better all around player but Stockdale is a more potent attacking threat.
You'd have to go back to early BOD days for a similar comparison.

Absolute nonsense.
In terms of importance Ireland is basically this:

Murray, Sexton, Kearney, Furlong, Toner, Stander, Ringrose, Healy and then everyone else.

Faugheen · 03-12-2018 8:32pm

troyzer wrote: »

Absolute nonsense.
In terms of importance Ireland is basically this:

Murray, Sexton, Kearney, Furlong, Toner, Stander, Ringrose, Healy and then everyone else.

Think the AI shows we're not as reliant on Murray as we are Sexton.

The Pheasant2 · 03-12-2018 9:08pm

Faugheen wrote: »

Think the AI shows we're not as reliant on Murray as we are Sexton.

I agree, Sexton = MVP

the baby bull elephant · 03-12-2018 9:21pm

Bowe is Ireland's second highest ever try scorer with 64 less caps than BO'D in first place. I know Stockdale looks like someone who could end up with more tried but people seem to forget how dangerous Bowe was along with the other stuff he brought.

awec · 03-12-2018 9:25pm

Bowe was up there with BOD and POC in terms of his ability and standing in his position.

So asking if Stockdale is better than Bowe is like asking if Ringrose is better than BOD, or Ryan better than POC. The answer is no, not yet at least.

He's only 22, and hopefully has another 10 years in the tank. A lot of room for him to grow.

The Parish King · 03-12-2018 10:00pm

Anyone see in the Times today that Cuminksy included Doris in his squad of 31 for Japan?

Hard to know if this was just a throwaway inclusion to generate some interest (as his logic seemed to be that there has to be a bolter within the forwards each RWC, and he also failed to mention Conan once!).

But I guess my question is, is Doris really that highly rated? I haven’t been that impressed when I’ve seen him this year (more so that he hasn’t stood out, rather than unimpressed), however it is impressive to be getting this amount of game time straight after the u20s.

Ireland Team Talk Thread IX: Grand Slam Champions SEE MOD WARNING POST #1122

Comments